Sheffield Wednesday F.C. v Derby County F.C.

[Day]

22 minutes ago, Doodle said:

The difference being. That team had largely played the matches prior to the 3 you suggest too. The odd change here and there. This time 5 of the 6 hadn’t played much recently due to injuries and loss of form. Therefore the team wasn’t exactly the same as the  one who played those games. Not in terms of personnel obviously. But in terms of form and match sharpness 

Sheffield Wed 2-0 Derby 

But it's still not what the big boys do against lesser opposition in the cup, that's simply wrong.

Also Sheffield Wednesday made 7 changes to their starting 11 last night. Last games they started next to their names.

Pudil  - 03/02
Loovens - 26/01
Boyd - 30/01
Clare - First start and 90 minutes for the club
Hunt - 26/01
Rhodes - 20/01
Joao - 10/02

Yet they won, as you say 2-0.

Maybe it wasn't the number of changes but our failure to once again figure out a way to break down a side with 3 at the back that is the issue here.

 

[Day]

3 minutes ago, curtains said:

No .

The issue is nothing to do with 3 at the back. 

Take Wednesdays first goal .

Clueless Forsyth and Johnson’s fault who were 2 of the 6 changes. 

2nd goal what was Ledley doing ! Another of the 6 changes  

How many goals did we score?

[Day]

10 minutes ago, curtains said:

None 

The point is 3 at the back should make no difference to us breaking them down but if you want to put that as an excuse then fair enough .

Maybe Rowett could bring Chris  Martin back to work it out for him  

It's not a "excuse" Curtains, I put it forward as a possible issue for us as oppose to the number of changes last night.

Derby 0-2 Wolves

Derby 1-0 Preston

Sheff Utd 3-1 Derby

Derby 2-0 QPR
Derby 1-1 Sheff United

Derby 1-1 Norwich
Sheff Wed 2-0 Derby

All these games we came up against 3 at the back, apart from QPR we've only managed to break through once and kept clean sheets in 2. 

Now I'm not saying defensive mistakes were not made last night, but we need to find a way of breaking these sides down, if you don't score goals you won't win games.

[Millenniumram]

20 minutes ago, David said:

But it's still not what the big boys do against lesser opposition in the cup, that's simply wrong.

Also Sheffield Wednesday made 7 changes to their starting 11 last night. Last games they started next to their names.

Pudil  - 03/02
Loovens - 26/01
Boyd - 30/01
Clare - First start and 90 minutes for the club
Hunt - 26/01
Rhodes - 20/01
Joao - 10/02

Yet they won, as you say 2-0.

Maybe it wasn't the number of changes but our failure to once again figure out a way to break down a side with 3 at the back that is the issue here.

 

Basic maths innit 1V3 up front ain’t gonna work, thought rowett would switch it up by now.

[Doodle]

10 minutes ago, David said:

But it's still not what the big boys do against lesser opposition in the cup, that's simply wrong.

Also Sheffield Wednesday made 7 changes to their starting 11 last night. Last games they started next to their names.

Pudil  - 03/02
Loovens - 26/01
Boyd - 30/01
Clare - First start and 90 minutes for the club
Hunt - 26/01
Rhodes - 20/01
Joao - 10/02

Yet they won, as you say 2-0.

Maybe it wasn't the number of changes but our failure to once again figure out a way to break down a side with 3 at the back that is the issue here.

 

Not sure it’s the 3 at the back more the 5 in midfield we struggle against. Hudds and Ledley were totally overrun last night. It stops any forward momentum and puts pressure on our back 4. Causing problems at both ends. We would however have coped better without the hapless combination of Forsyth and Johnson down our left. Baird was better but not much, Weimann did reasonably well though, I thought. I have a horrible feeling, opposition managers will suss us out, if playing against this system is our Achilles heal. We will have to disagree on the cup analogy. 

[ThePrisoner]

3 minutes ago, curtains said:

Ok that’s good research David 

So say I take it you are correct in that assumption and on the face of it you have a good point then what an earth is Rowett going to do about it as he’s shipped out his plan B in Bent and Martin and Winnall is out for the season. 

Who said they were his plan B though? The absence of Martin and Bent is not why we’ve had a slump post-Christmas. 

[Day]

4 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Basic maths innit 1V3 up front ain’t gonna work, thought rowett would switch it up by now.

It's not that the numbers don't stack up, Arsenal using 4-2-3-1 beat Everton 5-1 that played 3 at the back. 

Probably a poor example with Everton being such a poor side, but still.

We need to see more from our forwards, all of them. How many times have we sat here and said/thought we was just lacking that quality, that final ball. 

[AdamRam]

7 minutes ago, David said:

It's not a "excuse" Curtains, I put it forward as a possible issue for us as oppose to the number of changes last night.

Derby 0-2 Wolves

Derby 1-0 Preston

Sheff Utd 3-1 Derby

Derby 2-0 QPR
Derby 1-1 Sheff United

Derby 1-1 Norwich
Sheff Wed 2-0 Derby

All these games we came up against 3 at the back, apart from QPR we've only managed to break through once and kept clean sheets in 2. 

Now I'm not saying defensive mistakes were not made last night, but we need to find a way of breaking these sides down, if you don't score goals you won't win games.

Did GR not make these changes with the formation in mind? Playing against 352 shouldn’t be difficult as long as you have the right personnel picked in the first place and I would hope that this is one of the reasons he made so many changes, or do Wednesday normally play a different formation ?

Of course the next question is why he is struggling to influence games against that system, and waitied until so late in the game to make any changes both to personel and formation.

[Hector was the best]

9 hours ago, Anag Ram said:

It hurts to lose but we aren’t much cop as fans if we lose the faith.

We know the side has overperformed. Let’s give them a bit of slack and wait for the good times to come again.

Some of us older one have waited too long already, time is running out 

[ThePrisoner]

3 minutes ago, curtains said:

Ok then if that’s your opinion what is his plan B when we can’t score. 

I’m not saying I know his plan B, but it’s pretty evident they weren’t really part of it. 

[Spanish]

we had a number of chances to score and failed (vyds in the second half should have been buried).  I think we opened up their back 3 on a number of occasions and if we had scored 3 it wouldn't have flattered us

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, archied said:

rowett has had two windows with more restraints than his recent predecessors so in balance we are still early days

Don't think so.

[Day]

6 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Did GR not make these changes with the formation in mind? Playing against 352 shouldn’t be difficult as long as you have the right personnel picked in the first place and I would hope that this is one of the reasons he made so many changes, or do Wednesday normally play a different formation ?

Of course the next question is why he is struggling to influence games against that system, and waitied until so late in the game to make any changes both to personel and formation.

Possibly, although any planning may have gone out the window when their team showed 7 changes. Only Rowett can answer that, same with the late changes. Think we're both at the opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to views on our manager, but I struggled to understand why we waited so long to make changes last night when we was chasing the game. 

[Mr Tibbs]

Yeah I don't understand that one. 

Restraints as in sold good players he didn't want anyway and spent 15 million? Let's be reyt, he's in a lucky position for a manager at this level. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

Do we need an extra cm in? Play ledley and hudds as cdms with Thorne a bit more advanced. 

Trouble then is you lose one of the front 4. Which is probably the 10. And we don't have a real target lone striker. 

I've just talked myself out of that idea 

[Seaside Sam]

we are still in a better position now than we have been for a few years,listen to all the wrist slashers on here we will be going down with that shower down the road.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Seaside Sam said:

we are still in a better position now than we have been for a few years...

How so?

[jono]

Bad result, that's all. Pick it up, get some fire in our bellies and stuff Leeds. 

I refuse to get in to Martin, 433, sold the wrong players, it's our usual bottlers slump, Rowett out, Immobile midfield  .. All garbage defeatist talk. We had plenty of shots, plenty of possession just a bad day against a Wednesday side who had some grit and most likely a bit of luck too. 

 We will be back. 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, jono said:

Bad result, that's all. Pick it up, get some fire in our bellies and stuff Leeds. 

Where's the fire gonna come from? Was expecting a few puffs of smoke against the Wendies too.

[Ellafella]

If you can meet with triumph and disaster,

And treat those two impostors just the same; - Kipling.