Jon Toral - signed for Hull City

[Kernow]

I wonder if Vydra's 'injury' has anything to do with the Toral interest. Vydra may of course actually be injured, but if we sign Toral I imagine GR would want to play him in the hole (ooh er) behind the striker, which is where Vydra played for us at the end of last season.

Vydra suddenly stopped being picked last season by GR so it wouldn't really come as a surprise if he was to leave, although I hope we keep him.

[Jack Willow]

2 minutes ago, RamsFan10 said:

Did you watch him at Birmingham or Brentford? Always high up the pitch or out wide. Think he's far too lightweight to play defensively, even with Tom, which is probably why he got sussed out at Rangers. 

No, I didn't watch him at Brentford, but I have seen him playing for Birmingham.

I've also checked, he played as an attacking midfielder right/left/central (AMRLC) for Brantford or like you are saying out wide.

If he is too lightweight? I don't think so, he's 191 cm tall (like myself).

While comparing to Jota, who looks small and lightweight fella, but actually isn't really small, he's 180 cm tall.

Why do I believe he'll be brought to play next to Huddlestone? 

Because I strongly believe some of the following players will be transferred and gone as soon as Toral signs in: either Bryson, Johnson or Butterfield.

Thorne you can simply forget, cause he's isn't ready and who knows when he'll be ready to play.

Baird isn't good enough to be a DM, we have witnessed it during the Clement era.

I don't see him playing behind the striker, because Derby has too many attackers available at the moment who could be his direct concurrentes for the same position as a AMC or AMRL: Martin, Nugent, Vydra, Weimann, Russell, Anya, Blackman, Bennett.

 

[Nuwtfly]

2 minutes ago, Kernow said:

I wonder if Vydra's 'injury' has anything to do with the Toral interest. Vydra may of course actually be injured, but if we sign Toral I imagine GR would want to play him in the hole (ooh er) behind the striker, which is where Vydra played for us at the end of last season.

Vydra suddenly stopped being picked last season by GR so it wouldn't really come as a surprise if he was to leave, although I hope we keep him.

That was the first thing that came to my mind when the Toral link popped up. Both would be looking to fill that No.10 role in a 4-2-3-1, and considering the links @Ambitious posted, Toral would likely be the favourite. 

As much as I would love to see a Martin/Vydra partnership, I've just got a feeling that he may well be due for the exit door, if Derby can find a buyer keen to recoup at least some of that ridiculous £8m. The dropping at the end of the season, the weird tweet from his girlfriend when they forgot to wish him a Happy Birthday, his general body language on the pitch. I hate to say it, but the exit door might just be the inevitable conclusion.

Hope I'm wrong, as I'd love to see him to well here, and justify the price-tag.

[cheron85]

10 hours ago, StringerBell said:

You don't have doubts? I do, and I think Rowett just might be successful in getting us out of this league at some point if Mel gives him time. So I'm not negative and yet I still have doubts. If you don't have doubts about something that is yet to be proven then you're not thinking critically. Which is perfectly fine btw,  you don't have to when it comes to football. Feel free to take out of football whatever you want to. But the faith/scepticism dichotomy is a more accurate reflection of the conversation I've just seen than the glass half full/half empty analogy, even if I wouldn't regard TroyDyer's faith as blind.

I have rarely if ever been accused of having faith

I am currently in an ongoing process of actively ignoring my doubts - in an attempt to have a more positive attitude going into the new season

Apparently football is much more enjoyable when you aren't spending every second worrying how it about to go horribly wrong - so this season for the first time I might try it - might even have a beer instead of my usual coffee and fingernails combo

My viewpoints on what critical thinking constitutes can wait for another day/thread

[Dcfcrams89]

No qualms with going for players like toral and Lawrence and I won't judge them until I've seen them on a regular basis.

although I don't recall the exact wording, I'm sure when ince was linked with a move away rowett made a comment about sides wanting our best players but we also want other sides best players. Are these the players he was referring to as they aren't quite their sides best players??

[Anag Ram]

8 minutes ago, Dcfcrams89 said:

No qualms with going for players like toral and Lawrence and I won't judge them until I've seen them on a regular basis.

although I don't recall the exact wording, I'm sure when ince was linked with a move away rowett made a comment about sides wanting our best players but we also want other sides best players. Are these the players he was referring to as they aren't quite their sides best players??

Yes, Rowett said something like we will get some very, very good players

We are being linked with promising ones, no more than that.

I'm disregarding Jota in that statement as I can't see him coming. 

[Srg]

7 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

Yes, Rowett said something like we will get some very, very good players

We are being linked with promising ones, no more than that.

I'm disregarding Jota in that statement as I can't see him coming. 

Rather this than be after a load of Bradley Johnson's for £7m. 

[Mihangel]

21 minutes ago, Srg said:

Rather this than be after a load of Bradley Johnson's for £7m. 

Quite - The last 2 summer windows still make me sad. Imagine where we'd be if we'd have just sucked up the Hughes & Bryson injuries & also not bothered with Vydra & Anya a year later.

[Sparkle]

8 hours ago, cheron85 said:

I have rarely if ever been accused of having faith

I am currently in an ongoing process of actively ignoring my doubts - in an attempt to have a more positive attitude going into the new season

Apparently football is much more enjoyable when you aren't spending every second worrying how it about to go horribly wrong - so this season for the first time I might try it - might even have a beer instead of my usual coffee and fingernails combo

My viewpoints on what critical thinking constitutes can wait for another day/thread

Life is to short to worry about football- enjoy the day and hope for the best. All I ask for is that every player and member of staff give their everything regardless of individual ability because in part they are representing me.

18 minutes ago, ShoreRam said:

Quite - The last 2 summer windows still make me sad. Imagine where we'd be if we'd have just sucked up the Hughes & Bryson injuries & also not bothered with Vydra & Anya a year later.

Yep, loans would have covered it, there was a winter window in there as well which was crazy 

[ariotofmyown]

23 minutes ago, ShoreRam said:

Quite - The last 2 summer windows still make me sad. Imagine where we'd be if we'd have just sucked up the Hughes & Bryson injuries & also not bothered with Vydra & Anya a year later.

Only about 22 million better off!

[Rample]

I still believe we thought we were good value for a top 2 finish that season and then Boro and 1 or 2 more splashed the cash, I think that led to Mel giving even more financial backing to stay in touch with them hence throwing £10m at Johnson and Butters.

Neither are bad players we just should have bought players that fit our system instead. Imagine if we'd gone out and got a proper holding mid and a left winger instead either then or even when we got Vydra and Anya.

Yet years later we are only now starting to address those areas.

Back to Toral he looks a bit like a square peg for a round hole at the moment too.

 

[cheron85]

13 minutes ago, Rample said:

throwing £10m at Johnson and Butters.

I still actually agree with having don this - We lost Hughes and Bryson to long term injuries in the first game and these two were theoretically like for like replacements (in terms of style) so should have slotted right in

14 minutes ago, Rample said:

proper holding mid and a left winger instead either then or even when we got Vydra and Anya.

Yeh but I think we all now realise that Pearson was/is mad as several boxes of frogs - Angry frogs - Not like the ones in the budweiser adverts - Like giant, angry, mutant frogs

[Will Hughes Hair]

9 hours ago, StringerBell said:

Are Rowett and Toral like Tim Burton and Johnny Depp?

or Tim Burton and Helena Bonham-Carter?

[sage]

7 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I still actually agree with having don this - We lost Hughes and Bryson to long term injuries in the first game and these two were theoretically like for like replacements (in terms of style) so should have slotted right in

Yeh but I think we all now realise that Pearson was/is mad as several boxes of frogs - Angry frogs - Not like the ones in the budweiser adverts - Like giant, angry, mutant frogs

I think we should have bought a CM and loaned one. Our purchasing seems much more thought out under GR. 

The 2.5 years have been such a waste.

[cheron85]

14 minutes ago, sage said:

I think we should have bought a CM and loaned one. Our purchasing seems much more thought out under GR. 

The 2.5 years have been such a waste.

Oh it was a massive panic buy I agree - But we were a third of the way into August with a guy who'd never managed before at the helm - I'm sure he thought it was the right move and Uncle Mel was throwing the cash around at that point - So I can easily see how/why it happened

The benefit of hindsight has been a fairly painful experience in recent years

[Animal is a Ram]

To have not signed anyone with both Hughes and Bryson crocked for 80% of the season would have been madness. That would have left us with a midfield 3 of Thorne, Hanson and Hendrick, with no back up, with George coming back from his hefty knee injury.

Did we need both Butterfield and Johnson? Probably not, but we needed at least one.

[Mihangel]

19 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Oh it was a massive panic buy I agree - But we were a third of the way into August with a guy who'd never managed before at the helm - I'm sure he thought it was the right move and Uncle Mel was throwing the cash around at that point - So I can easily see how/why it happened

The benefit of hindsight has been a fairly painful experience in recent years

Agreed, but even at the time it must have crossed most people's minds - What happens when they're all fit?

[Van der MoodHoover]

On 18/07/2017 at 17:57, cheron85 said:

This is just quite a silly debate about "cup half full vs cup half empty" - If you don't understand that statement as being almost EXACTLY the same as yours except optimistic rather than pessimistic I'm not sure what else we can say

You say "I need to see proof that he's good" - We are currently choosing to say "I need to see proof that he's bad" - We are BOTH asking for proof to our hypothesis - And neither is going on 'blind faith' - We're just choosing to start from a positive assumption rather than a negative one

Life analogy - I went to a Peruvian restaurant for the first time the other day - I could have said "I'm not really sure about this so I'll wait and make up my mind when I'm there" but what I actually said was "This will be an interesting new experience and I will find out whether I like it when I'm there" - Still making my mind up based on the actual meal I have BUT the mindset going in is a positive one

But was the braised guinea pig tasty? 

[nogbad van 50]

20 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

To have not signed anyone with both Hughes and Bryson crocked for 80% of the season would have been madness. That would have left us with a midfield 3 of Thorne, Hanson and Hendrick, with no back up, with George coming back from his hefty knee injury.

Did we need both Butterfield and Johnson? Probably not, but we needed at least one.

Like Cheron85 says,everyone's got a degree in hindsight! Butterfield was excellent at Huddersfield and they were gutted to lose him until we "transformed" him! Johnson was considered a major coup by Clement and our fans and started like the proverbial house on fire.I think they've both suffered,like us, from the managerial changes,injuries and the inconsistent team formations where their role was constantly changing.Hopefully,things have settled down and there's no point in constant references to how things have gone wrong previously.It's a clean sheet now  where Rowett has to bring in his own players and get rid of those not considered good enough in terms of ability or temperament.It won't be a speedy process as some seem to demand but that's a fault of our "McDonald's society".I just want to see steady signs of progress where we're an organised and disciplined team that's hard to beat and,gradually,start playing some attractive football.Alex Ferguson is usually defined as the best manager ever but it took him 4/5 years to turn Man Utd around.Fans aren't that patient nowadays,however, so Gary,by my reckoning,you've got 2/3 seasons at most to do your stuff!!

[Van der MoodHoover]

Just now, Animal is a Ram said:

To have not signed anyone with both Hughes and Bryson crocked for 80% of the season would have been madness. That would have left us with a midfield 3 of Thorne, Hanson and Hendrick, with no back up, with George coming back from his hefty knee injury.

Did we need both Butterfield and Johnson? Probably not, but we needed at least one.

We absolutely needed players in at that time for all the reasons you state. 

I suppose with the benefit of hindsight the best thing to do would have been a brace of Martins - ie loans with options to buy. 

This would have given us the short term cover with a chance to assess whether they were needed longer term depending on the recovery of hughes and bryso. 

It might not have been possible - whether or not enquiries were made we won't ever know.  But the path chosen has led to us being overstocked with players whose usefulness is now being questioned. 

There is no mitigation for the purchase of nick blackman.  Not knocking the lad but the reasoning just isn't there for me.