DcFc Dyycheee Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 ARSENAL outcast Jon Toral is finally ready to quit the club by making a move to Derby County. Toral has been unable to make the breakthrough into the first team picture at the Emirates despite emerging from the club’s academy as a player to watch. The Spanish midfielder has been sent out on loan to Brentford, Birmingham, Rangers and Granada in Spain in recent years in an effort to help his development. But despite impressing during his stints elsewhere he has not done enough to persuade Arsene Wenger he is good enough for the first team at the Emirates. At 22, he looks to have decided the time is right for him to seek a permanent move to another club. And Derby have emerged as the most likely destination, with manager Gary Rowett keen to link up with a player he worked with during his time in charge of Birmingham. Toral made a huge impression during his season playing at St Andrew’s, being named both the player’s and supporter’s player of the year for 2015/2016. He also did well in Scotland last season with Rangers, while Arsenal received good reports of his time with Granada. The Rams boss worked well with Toral when they were together at Birmingham and he believes he could make a major impact at the iPro Stadium. The Championship club are understood to have contacted Arsenal to find out the availability of the midfielder and could follow up with a firm bid later this week.https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/4044493/arsenal-ace-jon-toral-set-to-leave-emirates-permanently-with-derby-interested-in-snapping-him-up/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: Seems like the difference between most fans' view and yours is that they see their club appointing Rowett as their manager and are prepared to support that decision until that decision proves to be the wrong one whereas you withhold your support until the decision proves to be the correct one (and then jump on the bandwagon). I have no idea whether Rowett will be a success or not but until the point is reached when I can decide the answer to that question, I prefer to look on the optimistic side rather than the pessimistic. You seem to misunderstanding entirely, despite the fact that I've said clearly several times that I fully support the team. I have done so in the past, do so at present, and will continue to do so in the future. That is unconditional and unchanging...from age 5 until I'm dead. Hardly a bandwangon jumper...do Derby County even have 'bandwagon' fans at the moment? Seems unlikely. What I'm reserving judgement on is Rowett's quality as a manager...until I've seen it proven. Is he the right manager for us? I'm not saying he is bad...I'm not saying he won't be good, I'm just saying let's wait and see. Until then let's feel free to honestly criticize his decision and tactics or praise them as we see fit. That's not disloyalty to the club or team...that's concern for the team. Whether he succeeds or fails I will support the team either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustylee Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Is this the guy from masterchef? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 12 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: Seems like the difference between most fans' view and yours is that they see their club appointing Rowett as their manager and are prepared to support that decision until that decision proves to be the wrong one whereas you withhold your support until the decision proves to be the correct one (and then jump on the bandwagon). I have no idea whether Rowett will be a success or not but until the point is reached when I can decide the answer to that question, I prefer to look on the optimistic side rather than the pessimistic. Not jumping on a side here but what Highgate said was trust in his first post, not support. They said they will support but haven't got blind faith/trust as yet, which is fair enough. ive not seen enough of toral to say either way, I just know there are several targets I'd rather get in before spending a couple of mil on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 34 minutes ago, DcFc Dyycheee said: ARSENAL outcast Jon Toral is finally ready to quit the club by making a move to Derby County. Toral has been unable to make the breakthrough into the first team picture at the Emirates despite emerging from the club’s academy as a player to watch. The Spanish midfielder has been sent out on loan to Brentford, Birmingham, Rangers and Granada in Spain in recent years in an effort to help his development. But despite impressing during his stints elsewhere he has not done enough to persuade Arsene Wenger he is good enough for the first team at the Emirates. At 22, he looks to have decided the time is right for him to seek a permanent move to another club. And Derby have emerged as the most likely destination, with manager Gary Rowett keen to link up with a player he worked with during his time in charge of Birmingham. Toral made a huge impression during his season playing at St Andrew’s, being named both the player’s and supporter’s player of the year for 2015/2016. He also did well in Scotland last season with Rangers, while Arsenal received good reports of his time with Granada. The Rams boss worked well with Toral when they were together at Birmingham and he believes he could make a major impact at the iPro Stadium. The Championship club are understood to have contacted Arsenal to find out the availability of the midfielder and could follow up with a firm bid later this week.https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/4044493/arsenal-ace-jon-toral-set-to-leave-emirates-permanently-with-derby-interested-in-snapping-him-up/ At the where now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 How do you pronounce his first name, they can't pronounce their J's in Spain so is it "Whon"? Could we chant "there's only one whon toral"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, Paul71 said: At the where now? Some thorough journalism going on there!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted McMinn Football Genius Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 I don't know enough about this dude, so I will go with what GR is building as so far we are looking a more industrious and powerful side with his additions. A few twinkle toed wingers and or a creative midfielder and I'm a happy Ram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamin Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 gary has my support he is a member of the team. who he brings in with his experience should enrich us one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Highgate said: A fellow poster said 'If Rowett thinks he is good enough, then IMO he is good enough...until he shows himself not to be'. What on earth is that if it's not blind faith. What has he done to earn our trust so far? Wouldn't it be more reasonable to say 'If Rowett thinks he is good enough.....let him prove it one way or the other.' Until then, we will reserve judgement. This is just quite a silly debate about "cup half full vs cup half empty" - If you don't understand that statement as being almost EXACTLY the same as yours except optimistic rather than pessimistic I'm not sure what else we can say You say "I need to see proof that he's good" - We are currently choosing to say "I need to see proof that he's bad" - We are BOTH asking for proof to our hypothesis - And neither is going on 'blind faith' - We're just choosing to start from a positive assumption rather than a negative one Life analogy - I went to a Peruvian restaurant for the first time the other day - I could have said "I'm not really sure about this so I'll wait and make up my mind when I'm there" but what I actually said was "This will be an interesting new experience and I will find out whether I like it when I'm there" - Still making my mind up based on the actual meal I have BUT the mindset going in is a positive one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, cheron85 said: This is just quite a silly debate about "cup half full vs cup half empty" - If you don't understand that statement as being almost EXACTLY the same as yours except optimistic rather than pessimistic I'm not sure what else we can say You say "I need to see proof that he's good" - We are currently choosing to say "I need to see proof that he's bad" - We are BOTH asking for proof to our hypothesis - And neither is going on 'blind faith' - We're just choosing to start from a positive assumption rather than a negative one Life analogy - I went to a Peruvian restaurant for the first time the other day - I could have said "I'm not really sure about this so I'll wait and make up my mind when I'm there" but what I actually said was "This will be an interesting new experience and I will find out whether I like it when I'm there" - Still making my mind up based on the actual meal I have BUT the mindset going in is a positive one You've just quoted Highgate saying we shouldn't make any judgement at all, before implying he has made a negative assumption. Being skeptical is about making judgements based on facts, not having a glass half empty mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, StringerBell said: You've just quoted Highgate saying we shouldn't make any judgement at all, before implying he has made a negative assumption. Being skeptical is about making judgements based on facts, not having a glass half empty mentality. The definition of skeptical is "having doubts or reservations" - Tell me that isn't a negative mindset And I think the words I used were fairly clear - I stated that they were the exact same thing - Both sides here are saying "we will make up our mind based on what we see" - It's just that the mindset of one is negative and the mindset of the other is positive @Highgate was saying that we had "blind faith" - Which is not the same as the things we are saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 This is the kind of signing I expected from Rowett. Young, promising, a little raw, and with a point to prove. If the quoted price of £2 million is accurate, this could be a bargain if it works out. From what I know, he came through the ranks at Barcelona and then Arsenal, so if nothing else, we would be getting a player with a strong technical base. At this level, he did well at Brentford and Birmingham but didn't really make an impact in Scotland or Spain, but this is typical for young players out on loan. Some clubs are a good fit for them. Some clubs are not. If he is linking up again with Rowett, under whom he played the best football of his short career, our club might be a good fit for him as he will understand what Rowett wants from him and be able to settle in more quickly. At first team level, Wisdom has only had one notable season in his career and the same too with Lawrence. Inconsistency is rife amongst players of that age. It's strange that those two are no more proven than Toral, yet people are dancing on the ceiling about them. For me, signing Toral for £2 million could be the best business we do all summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Rample said: Only a matter of time before he was linked, could be idle speculation, or more than likely we're not progressing with other players so we've put the feelers out. Played as the central one of 3 attackers with 2 defensive mids sitting behind him for Rowett at Brum. I prefer the idea of Nugent there, but Toral offers an option as he's more of an attacking mid than a deep striker, and also made the odd appearance on the wings. Didn't get much of a look in at Rangers until the end of the season and was mostly played as a DM. Good squad player to have for now as he offers something different, and if we thin the squad out offers good cover too. I'd be happy to have him on the periphery now giving him the opportunity to become a key player. Plus he's a Spaniard who once played for Brentford! Yeah because we are thin on the ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jourdan said: From what I know, he came through the ranks at Barcelona and then Arsenal, so if nothing else, we would be getting a player with a strong technical base. When he first came in Rowett suggested that he wanted a bigger (physically) and more technical squad - Got a twofer here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, cheron85 said: The definition of skeptical is "having doubts or reservations" - Tell me that isn't a negative mindset And I think the words I used were fairly clear - I stated that they were the exact same thing - Both sides here are saying "we will make up our mind based on what we see" - It's just that the mindset of one is negative and the mindset of the other is positive @Highgate was saying that we had "blind faith" - Which is not the same as the things we are saying Agree entirely. Take a like. But please, we aren't American. It's sceptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Strange yearnings said: Agree entirely. Take a like. But please, we aren't American. It's sceptical. Sorry! I just used the same as @StringerBell (attempts to shift the blame ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sheriff Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Clearly he was terrible at rangers. Very sceptical on this one. Doesn't look like an improvement to the team. need to land that high quality Ince replacement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Simsy said: Clearly he was terrible at rangers. Counter argument is he was trained and Barcelona and Arsenal, considered to have enough potential that they gave him a new contract recently, is obviously hungry enough for football and to prove himself to want to leave and so far has only played on loan with TERRIBLE teams I have no opinion on him as I have no idea how good he is - But IF Rowett wants to take a punt he's exactly the kind of player I've been advocating we sign - Young, hungry and trained at a top club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle guest Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Cant believe people are against this due to the fact that he had a bad loan spell at rangers, martin was terrible at Swindon on loan, now the best striker we've had in years, ince was crap at forest on loan there but was our best player last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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