Gegenpressing is dead. Long live Garypressing.

[Duracell]

At times last night, just how good were we at recovering the ball in their half and countering their potential counter attack?

It first happened in the second half against Forest, where the front 4 played about 10-15 yards up the pitch and really pressed their players, forcing mistakes.

It makes a huge amount of sense with the players we have, most of whom are very good at running around a lot, and with the right instructions could turn it into something useful.

I think a lot of our upturn in performance can simply be explained by a regression to the mean, but the biggest notable difference in the way we actually set up is our desire to win the ball back and how we are set up to do that as quickly as possible.

Garypressing has arrived. And I like it.

[TomBustler1884]

It's a relief more than anything.

For the last 3 seasons any visiting team at Pride Park with a decent manager has played one of two ways.

1. Play for the draw, hope to nick something

This is the Burton/Wigan way. Two deep walls of 4, soak up pressure, force Derby to work something out. I would never want us to play this way - we don't have the mentality for it and it's incredibly boring.

2. Pressure and force goals

This is what teams have done when they've noticed we used to always play from the back, let Carson pass it out, then swarm the back 4 and Bradley Johnson.

It's been maddening as a Derby fan to see teams work us out, but for us never to do it back to other teams. It seems like previously we have waited for a mistake, as opposed to forcing one. There's also nothing more likely to get our crowd onside than chasing, harrying and winning possession back through sheer effort.

I think Gary Rowett has done a great job in scouting us before he came. He's playing to our strengths, imposing his philosophy and systems and making it easier to bring the fans back on side. Difficult not to get carried away but he has been a breath of fresh air at the right time for DCFC.

[Nuwtfly]

Garypressing. Love it. 

[Mostyn6]

I read it as Gaypressing and got worried.

[Duracell]

4 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

I read it as Gaypressing and got worried.

What's wrong with you?

I was just commenting on how Gary is encouraging our men to go in behind, which makes it very hard for the opposition and gets me excited.

[Boycie]

32 minutes ago, Duracell said:

What's wrong with you?

I was just commenting on how Gary is encouraging our men to go in behind, which makes it very hard for the opposition and gets me excited.

You filthy creature.

[hintonsboots]

1 hour ago, Nuwtfly said:

Garypressing. Love it. 

Sounds like a dry cleaners.

[cosmic]

1 hour ago, Duracell said:

What's wrong with you?

I was just commenting on how Gary is encouraging our men to go in behind, which makes it very hard for the opposition and gets me excited.

Alright, don't get arsey. 

[i-Ram]

All going well so far l agree. I don't think we are ever too far away from Depressing though, so l won't get too carried away yet.

[sage]

1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said:

I read it as Gaypressing and got aroused.

FTFY

[Bris Vegas]

7 hours ago, The 1884 Group said:

It's been maddening as a Derby fan to see teams work us out, but for us never to do it back to other teams. It seems like previously we have waited for a mistake, as opposed to forcing one. There's also nothing more likely to get our crowd onside than chasing, harrying and winning possession back through sheer effort.

I think Gary Rowett has done a great job in scouting us before he came. He's playing to our strengths, imposing his philosophy and systems and making it easier to bring the fans back on side. Difficult not to get carried away but he has been a breath of fresh air at the right time for DCFC.

If teams had worked us out we would have been relegated, rather than finishing in the top 6 two out of the three seasons.

The reason we never rarely did it back was because for the large majority, what we were doing was good enough to win football matches. 

You have to strike a right balance. There we times we pressed, ridiculously, and left massive gaps behind for those to exploit. Remember Forest scoring in the last min to win 2-1 at PP? That came as a result of our midfield too eager to press and it left a gaping hole for them to exploit.

Its frustrates me when its suggested we 'got worked out'. If it really was so easy to play against us, we wouldnt have been anywhere near the top 6.

GR's main challenge is finding balance. I like us to press high, but not at the expense of team shape. Im impressed so far as it looks like we're doing a good job of it.

[Ellafella]

6 hours ago, Duracell said:

What's wrong with you?

I was just commenting on how Gary is encouraging our men to go in behind, which makes it very hard for the opposition and gets me excited.

It is exciting to watch but how long can we keep it up for? 

[Coneheadjohn]

There's certainly some lovely ball control.

[Alph]

See, in his first season Mac didn't have us retreating to the halfway line to get in shape did he?

That came with Clement because I remember how frustrating it was and remember @Srg rightfully pointing out that these "wonder goals" we were unlucky to concede was actually us sitting so deep and standing off it basically became a free kick.

Then when Mac came back I thought we'd venture out a bit but we continued to set up in our own half surrendering half the pitch without a challenge. 

It's more exciting now and I'm fairly confident we won't just stick rigidly to high pressing (ridiculously called gengenbollocks?) 

Against QPR we knew they'd be direct so there was little point trying to press their backline as after 1 touch they'd bypass any pressure by going long to Smith. So instead we pressed slightly just to initiate the long ball and then Smith was sandwiched by Johnson and Pearce with the team still deep enough to fight for the scraps. 

Even last night wasn't a case of press them high to stop them playing out. Fulham are good enough to take pressure, absorb it then hit you. We did it with really clever timing with the necessary pressure. They still came forward and created but they would, they have never been dominated in the good few games I've watched of them. 

 

I think this is what pisses me off with the media. One minute they're banging on that parking the bus is the way to frustrate slow possession sides. Then it's "gengenpressing" created in 2016... 

There is no right way to defend. Like anything it depends on your players and where you want to win the ball. Fulham have been vulnerable to getting caught all out of shape a lot. That's the price of supporting patient attacks with numbers. QPR obviously don't commit so many forward so you can invite them out to a certain extent.

If nothing else I've learned how you can set up different ways of attacking while the opponent has the ball. You can manipulate them. Rowett showing real good homework 

It's good stuff. Sorry for long post. Just let my mad thoughts spill out.

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, Alpha said:

See, in his first season Mac didn't have us retreating to the halfway line to get in shape did he?

That came with Clement because I remember how frustrating it was and remember @Srg rightfully pointing out that these "wonder goals" we were unlucky to concede was actually us sitting so deep and standing off it basically became a free kick.

Then when Mac came back I thought we'd venture out a bit but we continued to set up in our own half surrendering half the pitch without a challenge. 

It's more exciting now and I'm fairly confident we won't just stick rigidly to high pressing (ridiculously called gengenbollocks?) 

Against QPR we knew they'd be direct so there was little point trying to press their backline as after 1 touch they'd bypass any pressure by going long to Smith. So instead we pressed slightly just to initiate the long ball and then Smith was sandwiched by Johnson and Pearce with the team still deep enough to fight for the scraps. 

Even last night wasn't a case of press them high to stop them playing out. Fulham are good enough to take pressure, absorb it then hit you. We did it with really clever timing with the necessary pressure. They still came forward and created but they would, they have never been dominated in the good few games I've watched of them. 

 

I think this is what pisses me off with the media. One minute they're banging on that parking the bus is the way to frustrate slow possession sides. Then it's "gengenpressing" created in 2016... 

There is no right way to defend. Like anything it depends on your players and where you want to win the ball. Fulham have been vulnerable to getting caught all out of shape a lot. That's the price of supporting patient attacks with numbers. QPR obviously don't commit so many forward so you can invite them out to a certain extent.

If nothing else I've learned how you can set up different ways of attacking while the opponent has the ball. You can manipulate them. Rowett showing real good homework 

It's good stuff. Sorry for long post. Just let my mad thoughts spill out.

Just cut to the chase,  is it Keoghs fault? And can we boo yet or not?

[Ninos]

Gegenpress v Garypress

There's an interesting contrast tucked in here because you could argue that what Rowett is doing is Gegenpress + in that he does the Rangnick thing as his fundamental approach - including a calculated positioning of pressing players to yield a turnover or a clearance - but isn't afraid to adjust to a non press or a variation depending on the opposition structure, and then factoring in too specific opposition players who might be a menace to us. (QPR main man stifled by Johnson; rwb fredricks stifled by a change in formation) If you listen to his interviews he pretty much tells you he adheres to the basic g-press and quick attacking play as a default style - Liverpool Leipzig etc pretty much play the default gegenpress style regardless of opponent - but also GR articulates how each team we play is different how he has adjusted in his pre match plan as well as how he changes tactics and personnel in game too.  It's football plus chess for GR.  And a good chess player will adjust their game depending on if their opponent is a Burton or a Fulham. 

[Alph]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Just cut to the chase,  is it Keoghs fault? And can we boo yet or not?

Only if he gets his defensive line wrong and creates gaps in the formation so opponents can play between the lines. 

You find some instances of Fulham being pressed and passing forward, down the middle and the receiver having space and you probably have a case against the lead organiser. 

To do that though takes a Keogh Hate Level 5 qualification

[Rev]

2 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Only if he gets his defensive line wrong and creates gaps in the formation so opponents can play between the lines. 

You find some instances of Fulham being pressed and passing forward, down the middle and the receiver having space and you probably have a case against the lead organiser. 

To do that though takes a Keogh Hate Level 5 qualification

The two knobs in front of me must have sat that test.

When a midfielder plays a loose ball, or Carson kicks it out of play, they always cry 'C'mon Keogh, sort it out'.

They went quiet last night though, when Nugent missed the penalty, and my lad shouted out 'FFS Keogh sort it out', and everyone around us laughed.

[Ghost of Clough]

4 hours ago, reveldevil said:

The two knobs in front of me must have sat that test.

When a midfielder plays a loose ball, or Carson kicks it out of play, they always cry 'C'mon Keogh, sort it out'.

They went quiet last night though, when Nugent missed the penalty, and my lad shouted out 'FFS Keogh sort it out', and everyone around us laughed.

Was it toddy and his good mate ninos by any chance?

[WoollyJumper]

5 hours ago, reveldevil said:

The two knobs in front of me must have sat that test.

When a midfielder plays a loose ball, or Carson kicks it out of play, they always cry 'C'mon Keogh, sort it out'.

They went quiet last night though, when Nugent missed the penalty, and my lad shouted out 'FFS Keogh sort it out', and everyone around us laughed.

Oh that's just gold.