Return of the Mac

[brady1993]

3 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

To be fair, that would be the case regardless of who the manager is, in the era of social media etc. Depressing isn't it.

True that could be the case but I think it'd be more applicable to Mac due to sections of the fanbase harboring animosity towards him after his previous tenure.

[Leicester Ram]

48 minutes ago, RamsPolls said:

I agree completely, 

However, We could easily see him going to a team like Villa and doing well at their place. 

If we do go back to Mac, We will see a divide within the fans and possibly the players. 

A lot of people including myself feel he disrespected the club that he "Loved" and became a successful manager again. 

If he was to come back it would take a lot of convincing to get certain fans around the idea. I feel the players who were here as well would have to come to terms with it but may struggle to trust him again.

And Mr Morris? If he was putting his nose in Pearson's team because he didn't trust him enough to do his job. Do people really think he'll trust someone who snaked the club? Highly doubt it. 

 

I think I'd trust the players to grow up and accept him back, water under the bridge etc. From what I gather of what may have gone on with Pearson and to a lesser extent Clement, I wouldn't be surprised if McClaren's sins seem less damaging.

The thing about fans is that even if they were against him towards the end, we've been through a lot of **** recently and I think a lot of people would welcome the return of a manager who's been successful at Derby and played entertaining football.

I feel like McClaren has a better chance of winning the 'same old Derby' boo boys over than other managers do.

[RamsPolls]

6 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said:

I think I'd trust the players to grow up and accept him back, water under the bridge etc. From what I gather of what may have gone on with Pearson and to a lesser extent Clement, I wouldn't be surprised if McClaren's sins seem less damaging.

The thing about fans is that even if they were against him towards the end, we've been through a lot of **** recently and I think a lot of people would welcome the return of a manager who's been successful at Derby and played entertaining football.

I feel like McClaren has a better chance of winning the 'same old Derby' boo boys over than other managers do.

Them boo boys weren't even at the club until Mac came in lol

[Red Ram]

McClaren? Seriously?

Would be absolutely disastrous IMHO.

Firstly, there's the obvious point. By refusing to categorically deny he was interested in the Newcastle job, he contrived to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in 2015. Injuries were also a major factor but we may well have been promoted that season if it wasn't for the McClaren-Newcastle saga. The decline started around the same time the speculation started and when the wheels came off McClaren had no answers. He was quite rightly sacked at the end of that season - one of Mel Morris's better decisions.

Secondly, and more importantly he might be a great coach BUT HE'S A CRAP MANAGER! That's why he initially did well at Derby. He inherited a good team of consisting of mostly great signings by Clough and COACHED them into delivering some really good performances. McClaren himself acknowledged (at a forum I attended) that he was fortunate to inherit such a good situation at a club with a positive trajectory. He didn't have to turn the situation around, he just had to do what he does best - coach the players. Compare and contrast his time at Derby with the jobs he did at Forest and Newcastle when he wasn't lucky enough to benefit from the previous manager's good work. Both were an absolute car crash!

it's therefore highly unlikely that McClaren second-time-around would be anything like the first time because the context is very different. We still have some decent players but the squad has got weaker since he left and probably needs a major overhaul. Anyone who thinks McClaren's the man for the job needs to remember the 'quality' of his signings. Dawkins, Shotton and ALBENTOSA at Derby, Ishmael Miller at Forest - need I go on?

Thirdly, for no discernible reason he outright rejected the possibility of Shaun Barker coming on for the last 2 minutes to say goodbye to the Derby fans after he'd spend four years fighting to play football again. Thankfully Clough righted that wrong recently, but he shouldn't have had to.

Anyone but McClaren...

[cannable]

2 minutes ago, Red Ram said:

McClaren? Seriously?

Would be absolutely disastrous IMHO.

Firstly, there's the obvious point. By refusing to categorically deny he was interested in the Newcastle job, he contrived to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in 2014.

 

On 28 September 2016 at 15:03, cannable said:

"I love it here. I don't want to let people down. Like it or lump it I'm staying here!" - Steve McClaren, 06/01/15

"I hear the speculation, I see it, but I'm 100% committed to Derby County at this point. I've been saying it for months, that my total focus, my total commitment, is on Derby County. For three-quarters of the season we were one of the best teams in the league. I really felt when we went top of the league we could get in to the Premier League. In the last two months injuries have come thick and fast to important, experienced players and we lost momentum. It derailed us and we failed to get back on track. There is still a lot more to come from this team." - Steve McClaren, 06/05/15

"I'm very disappointed with the decision. The club means a huge amount to me, and I was not looking to leave. While we were all unhappy with the way the season ended, I still believe real progress was being made. I do not believe or accept that rumours linking me to the Newcastle United job were a factor in the team's performances this year, as had been alleged. I wanted to remain with the club and was confident in leading the side to a successful season next year." - Steve McClaren, 26/05/15

McClaren rejected Newcastle's approach in January in the wake of Alan Pardew's exit and again said 'no' with three matches of the season remaining, on both occasions deciding to remain at Derby County, where he was eventually sacked last month after missing out on the Championship play-offs. - The Daily Mail, 11/06/15

I'm not really sure what more fans could ask for?

 

[TroyDyer]

That fan forum at PP finished off SM for me. Nonsense about not wanting to offend John Carver by denying he wanted the Newcastle job. Rubbish. 

Yes the football was nice but I wouldn't accept my Mrs back if she fancied keeping her options open incase a rich fat ******* came along. 

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, TroyDyer said:

That fan forum at PP finished off SM for me. Nonsense about not wanting to offend John Carver by denying he wanted the Newcastle job. Rubbish. 

Yes the football was nice but I wouldn't accept my Mrs back if she fancied keeping her options open incase a rich fat ******* came along. 

Couldn't blame your missus, afterall you'd been thinking about a younger model for a while!

[Red Ram]

10 minutes ago, TroyDyer said:

That fan forum at PP finished off SM for me. Nonsense about not wanting to offend John Carver by denying he wanted the Newcastle job. Rubbish. 

Yes the football was nice but I wouldn't accept my Mrs back if she fancied keeping her options open incase a rich fat ******* came along. 

Exactly. The specific dates in cannable's post are key here. 6th of January (fair enough) and then the rest are all at the end of the season. There were plenty more interviews between January and May when he was far more equivocal. I can remember hearing them and reading them. It was too late by May - the damage had already been done to both our promotion chances and to McClarens reputation..

[cannable]

7 minutes ago, Red Ram said:

Exactly. The specific dates in cannable's post are key here. 6th of January (fair enough) and then the rest are all at the end of the season. There were plenty more interviews between January and May when he was far more equivocal. I can remember hearing them and reading them. It was too late by May - the damage had already been done to both our promotion chances and to McClarens reputation..

I just couldn't be bothered to find the rest of the denials, to be fair

[Leicester Ram]

8 minutes ago, Red Ram said:

McClaren? Seriously?

Would be absolutely disastrous IMHO.

Firstly, there's the obvious point. By refusing to categorically deny he was interested in the Newcastle job, he contrived to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in 2014. Injuries were also a major factor but we may well have been promoted that season if it wasn't for the McClaren-Newcastle saga. The decline started around the same time the speculation started and when the wheels came off McClaren had no answers. He was quite rightly sacked at the end of that season - one of Mel Morris's better decisions.

Secondly, and more importantly he might be a great coach BUT HE'S A CRAP MANAGER! That's why he initially did well at Derby. He inherited a good team of consisting of mostly great signings by Clough and COACHED them into delivering some really good performances. McClaren himself acknowledged (at a forum I attended) that he was fortunate to inherit such a good situation at a club with a positive trajectory. He didn't have to turn the situation around, he just had to do what he does best - coach the players. Compare and contrast his time at Derby with the jobs he did at Forest and Newcastle when he wasn't lucky enough to benefit from the previous manager's good work. Both were an absolute car crash!

it's therefore highly unlikely that McClaren second-time-around would be anything like the first time because the context is very different. We still have some decent players but the squad has got weaker since he left and probably needs a major overhaul. Anyone who thinks McClaren's the man for the job needs to remember the 'quality' of his signings. Dawkins, Shotton and ALBENTOSA at Derby, Ishmael Miller at Forest - need I go on?

Thirdly, for no discernible reason he outright rejected the possibility of Shaun Barker coming on for the last 2 minutes to say goodbye to the Derby fans after he'd spend four years fighting to play football again. Thankfully Clough righted that wrong recently, but he shouldn't have had to.

Anyone but McClaren...

Cannable has already picked apart your paper thin Newcastle argument, I'm going to tackle the idea that McClaren made crap signings.

You can cherry pick Albentosa (now plays in La Liga), Shotton (average yet competent Championship player) and Dawkins (regular player in 13/14 season, a team that reached the play-off final and comfortably finished 3rd) as examples of bad signings or signings that didn't work out, but not only are those players arguably not disasters, but there are plenty of good signings from McClaren's era. I'm astonished you didn't go with Warnock, Best or even Mascarell.

Andre Wisdom had a solid season and has gone on to play above Derby's level in the PL

Patrick Bamford scored some key goals and was Championship player of the year in 14/15, stated McClaren as the reason he joined Derby

George Thorne remains one of the most important players at the club to this day.

Omar Mascarell arguably wasn't the man to fill Thorne's shoes but still was a key part of what took Derby to top of the table as late on as March. Now playing in the Bundesliga.

Tom Ince remains one of the most important players at the club to this day.

Jesse Lingard came into the club at an unfortunate time but started for Man Utd this weekend and is in this week's England squad

Darren Bent as bought in as competition for Martin and a plan B, which he was for a while but was forced to lead the line. Scored around 10 goals and kept the attack effective while the defence fell apart.

Those were some effective signings...

I'd also like to discuss the idea that the context is now so vastly different and the current car crash squad we supposedly have.

As far as the squad goes, since McClaren left we've improved our defence dramatically, even Shackell doubters have to admit defensively he's the best player at the club. Richard Keogh, Cyrus Christie and Craig Forsyth remain part of the squad, and other additions such as Marcus Olsson, Max Lowe, Alex Pearce and Farrend Rawson offer a much greater defensive core than the likes of Warnock, Whitbread and Shotton (I will not touch upon the holy case of Saint Jake Buxton).

So he'd be inheriting a better defence.

The midfield is largely the same except with far more options. The losses are Eustace and Hendrick, but in Hendrick's place there are now Butterfield and Johnson. Arguably there is no real replacement for Eustace, but Jamie Hanson is more of a fixture in the side since McClaren left despite not being utilised by Pearson. The key midfielders Thorne, Bryson and Hughes are still there.

So arguably the midfield is as strong as it was when McClaren left.

Our wingers are largely still the same, Ince and Russell still remain from McClaren's tenure. In place of Dawkins and Ward there is now Weimann, Camara, Blackman and Anya, which is undoubtedly a large upgrade, particularly as McClaren was always keen on regularly rotating his wingers.

So it's an improvement on the wingers.

Striker is the real issue. Martin was possibly the morpst important on the field aspect of McClaren's success, but currently is out on loan. Details as to whether he can be recalled remain foggy, but as far as the rest of the strike force goes there's another arguable upgrade. We've still got Bent, who is less mobile but much more built and seems more of an aerial out ball than ever. While Bent is not as mobile anymore, there are plenty of mobile options in Vydra, Wilson and a make shift Nick Blackman if needs be.

The striking department is difficult, but could be quickly resolved in January.

The squad is now deeper than it ever was under McClaren but perhaps not built towards a 4-3-3. I can see where it's bloated, particularly with attacking options, but to call the coaching situation a coach like McClaren would find themselves in a 'car crash' is hardly fair.

Sorry for the long post, congrats if you read it all.

 

[Angry Ram]

20 hours ago, cymru said:

he was the best manager we had for years took us to wembley and he will take us up and keep us in the prem  this time round

Not disputing that but what makes you know he will be the same this time?

sentiment is poo in football.. Any appointment of any manager is a lottery.. Hughes despised at QPR reasoning noble success at Stoke. Simply no rhyme or reason to it unless you are really at the top of the tree.. Who's  to say Pep would do anything here? Fantasy football mate.

My point is never go back... We will sign Raich Carter, he was good once.. 

[Angry Ram]

48 minutes ago, Red Ram said:

McClaren? Seriously?

Would be absolutely disastrous IMHO.

Firstly, there's the obvious point. By refusing to categorically deny he was interested in the Newcastle job, he contrived to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in 2015. Injuries were also a major factor but we may well have been promoted that season if it wasn't for the McClaren-Newcastle saga. The decline started around the same time the speculation started and when the wheels came off McClaren had no answers. He was quite rightly sacked at the end of that season - one of Mel Morris's better decisions.

Secondly, and more importantly he might be a great coach BUT HE'S A CRAP MANAGER! That's why he initially did well at Derby. He inherited a good team of consisting of mostly great signings by Clough and COACHED them into delivering some really good performances. McClaren himself acknowledged (at a forum I attended) that he was fortunate to inherit such a good situation at a club with a positive trajectory. He didn't have to turn the situation around, he just had to do what he does best - coach the players. Compare and contrast his time at Derby with the jobs he did at Forest and Newcastle when he wasn't lucky enough to benefit from the previous manager's good work. Both were an absolute car crash!

it's therefore highly unlikely that McClaren second-time-around would be anything like the first time because the context is very different. We still have some decent players but the squad has got weaker since he left and probably needs a major overhaul. Anyone who thinks McClaren's the man for the job needs to remember the 'quality' of his signings. Dawkins, Shotton and ALBENTOSA at Derby, Ishmael Miller at Forest - need I go on?

Thirdly, for no discernible reason he outright rejected the possibility of Shaun Barker coming on for the last 2 minutes to say goodbye to the Derby fans after he'd spend four years fighting to play football again. Thankfully Clough righted that wrong recently, but he shouldn't have had to.

Anyone but McClaren...

Who's McClaren?

Sorry could not resist..

[lee_derby]

why do people insist on replacing managers that have been tried and tested already here or with ex players because they played for us give me a break. why not just get someone from abroad as I would expect they would cost less also. they havnt got us to the promised land move on or are you happy to keep us where we are 2nd tier

[Mostyn6]

why would McClaren burn bridges with any future employer when he knew Mel was itching to fire him?

[cannable]

14 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

why would McClaren burn bridges with any future employer when he knew Mel was itching to fire him?

Reminds me of this Rowett interview from just last week.

Birmingham City boss Gary Rowett responds to Derby County rumours

Gary Rowett has responded to speculation linking him with the potential vacancy at Derby County by insisting he ‘loves his job’ at Birmingham City.

Within hours of Nigel Pearson’s suspension being made public, reports in the national media had installed Rowett as the first choice to take over at the iPro.

However, one bookmaker has Rowett as just the fourth favourite - even though Pearson has not actually been relieved of his duties.

Steve Bruce, current caretaker Chris Powell and former boss Steve McClaren are shorter odds and Rowett distanced himself from the speculation.

“All I can talk about is the present and the present is I love my job, I have said it before,” he insisted.

“I look at the previous people that have had this role as manager of Birmingham City and there are some fantastic managers that you almost don’t feel as you should actually be holding the same position as those.

“I am very fortunate to have done it and I appreciate that. That’s all I am looking at.”

And he claims he takes the constant stream of stories linking him with other clubs as a positive sign.

“That’s symptomatic of modern day football isn’t it?

“It’s exactly the same as before, Fulham, QPR, Derby, Hull, Derby again - it’s a common denominator of I think that we are doing alright.

“I see it when players get linked with clubs, as a real positive that we are doing a reasonable job.

“It’s not just me, it’s all the staff, my name gets linked but it’s all the work the whole staff are doing, as a club, to get the team doing well on the pitch.

“It’s a compliment but I can reiterate again I am really happy at the club. I can’t control the future.

“The life of a football manager is precarious, if I lose the next six games can I still guarantee that I am still going to be manager of Birmingham City? I can’t. I could get sacked.

“I read an article recently that almost suggested new owners are going to come in and I could potentially leave because that’s what some new owners in the region have done.

“The point I am making is you can never rule anything out. I can’t sit here and say ‘All 91 clubs in the league, I would never ever manage’, because I might not have a job here forever.”

[wixman1884]

Yeah Rowett's interview wasn't dissimilar to McClaren's reaction to the newcastle speculation. Rowett is significantly more articulate though.

[Jimbo Ram]

I would have him back, really enjoyed watching that team....

[Seth's left foot]

IF Pearson goes then any new manager will have to work with this squad until January without the support of loans so the new guy will have to be in favour of 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 as we've seen what 4-4-2 works out like.

that would point to maybe CP carrying on and for this reason I can understand the clammer for SM to return. Would Schteve be successful second time around? Who knows but you can say that about any new appointment. Personally I can't see him returning while MM is at the club, you'd expect Steve Bruce to be looking at England or Villa so that would maybe leave a surprise appointment or CP staying on as the likely scenarios.

[Nuwtfly]

Hadn't we all decided that the reason we tailed off in Mac's last year was due to the players losing respect for him? What's changed?

[TheDeadlySaul]

5 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Hadn't we all decided that the reason we tailed off in Mac's last year was due to the players losing respect for him? What's changed?

No? The most popular ideas are the large amount of injuries we had or the Newcastle rumours distracted McClaren from the job.