Return of the Mac

[Nuwtfly]

1 minute ago, TheDeadlySaul said:

No? The most popular ideas are the large amount of injuries we had or the Newcastle rumours distracted McClaren from the job.

Don't remember too many defending him to the hilt with that excuse at the end of that season.

[cannable]

7 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Hadn't we all decided that the reason we tailed off in Mac's last year was due to the players losing respect for him? What's changed?

See, this argument is based purely off of assumption. Ignore the other reasons as to why we tailed off - why would the team tail off because of McClaren? Did they not want their promotion bonuses AND (if reports are to believed) a season's worth of win bonuses that they put on the line THEMSELVES as an extra incentive for promotion? 

[Nuwtfly]

2 minutes ago, cannable said:

See, this argument is based purely off of assumption. Ignore the other reasons as to why we tailed off - why would the team tail off because of McClaren? Did they not want their promotion bonuses AND (if reports are to believed) a season's worth of win bonuses that they put on the line THEMSELVES as an extra incentive for promotion? 

You're absolutely right, it is based off assumption. And assumption that many on this forum and off it were happy to put their money on as the reason. I'm simply asking why so many on here seem to have forgot all of that? Wasn't that long ago...

[TheDeadlySaul]

5 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Don't remember too many defending him to the hilt with that excuse at the end of that season.

I remember a 50/50 split on people wanting him to stay and others wanting him to leave. I actually just found this poll on this forum at the end of that season 

 

[cannable]

3 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

You're absolutely right, it is based off assumption. And assumption that many on this forum and off it were happy to put their money on as the reason. I'm simply asking why so many on here seem to have forgot all of that? Wasn't that long ago...

Yeah but the thing I've realised in recent years is that most Derby fans are stupid 

[RadioactiveWaste]

I just don't think the situation is one that Schtevie would come into and succeed in.

What happened here before is irrelevant.

[cannable]

3 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I just don't think the situation is one that Schtevie would come into and succeed in.

What happened here before is irrelevant.

Neither do I, but I'm fed up of listening to my head.

I just want some of the love back. Just something of a buzz again.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Just now, cannable said:

Neither do I, but I'm fed up of listening to my head.

I just want some of the love back. Just something of a buzz again.

I feel you on that. It's been so depressing this season.

[Stripperg-ram]

I'd have SM back, but no big announcement, no big contract. Just announce that he's (essentially doing a Wassall) and looking after us til the end of the season. 

He gets to make a mends, hopefully put a few demons to bed and get a chance to reprieve his career (and hopefully our footballing fortunes without doing the dirty on us again) 

we get a top class coach, who knows the set up, knows the players and hopefully is hungry enough to take us onwards and upwards.

If it doesn't work, then we've scratched an itch that we've been wondering about for 12 months and we (and he) can move on and hopefully the talent in the managerial market by then is better than currently available.

if it works, however, then we're all laughing.

Obvs never gonna happen, and I also think Powell deserves a stab at it for a short term, but I can dream can't I?

[Stripperg-ram]

And in addition to that...

He worked with Chris Powell here,back in the 90's so they could possibly create a team without dragging in Simmo etc

[therealhantsram]

McClaren had 18 months and three transfer windows. How many of his signings were in the squad last weekend? It's not a good legacy.

[PistoldPete2]

5 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

McClaren had 18 months and three transfer windows. How many of his signings were in the squad last weekend? It's not a good legacy.

They were not mcclaren signings they were signings by the recruitment team. Anyway, shotton, dawkins and co were only squad players. Thorne is injured. 

[Inglorius]

McClaren resigned the second time he became manager of FC Twente after a poor season and growing criticisms from the fans isn't that evidence enough that having the same manager back at a club doesn't always yield the same positive results the manager had the first time around.  

[Stripperg-ram]

1 minute ago, Inglorius said:

McClaren resigned the second time he became manager of FC Twente after a poor season and growing criticisms from the fans isn't that evidence enough that having the same manager back at a club doesn't always yield the same positive results the manager had the first time around.  

No, it's just proof that it happened on that occasion. 

But Pearson and Eddie Howe are examples of the contrary of what you're saying.

I'm not convinced or even bothered that if Mac came back it would be some kind of happy renuion, you would never know unless you tried.

[Inglorius]

22 minutes ago, Stripperg-ram said:

No, it's just proof that it happened on that occasion. 

But Pearson and Eddie Howe are examples of the contrary of what you're saying.

I'm not convinced or even bothered that if Mac came back it would be some kind of happy renuion, you would never know unless you tried.

Was illustrating that in McClarens case past behaviour with FC Twente could dictate future performance with us.  

[Mostyn6]

1 hour ago, therealhantsram said:

McClaren had 18 months and three transfer windows. How many of his signings were in the squad last weekend? It's not a good legacy.

but no money.

[Duracell]

If we get Mac back does that mean I can be a student again? 

[sage]

3 hours ago, Leicester Ram said:

Cannable has already picked apart your paper thin Newcastle argument, I'm going to tackle the idea that McClaren made crap signings.

You can cherry pick Albentosa (now plays in La Liga), Shotton (average yet competent Championship player) and Dawkins (regular player in 13/14 season, a team that reached the play-off final and comfortably finished 3rd) as examples of bad signings or signings that didn't work out, but not only are those players arguably not disasters, but there are plenty of good signings from McClaren's era. I'm astonished you didn't go with Warnock, Best or even Mascarell.

Andre Wisdom had a solid season and has gone on to play above Derby's level in the PL

Patrick Bamford scored some key goals and was Championship player of the year in 14/15, stated McClaren as the reason he joined Derby

George Thorne remains one of the most important players at the club to this day.

Omar Mascarell arguably wasn't the man to fill Thorne's shoes but still was a key part of what took Derby to top of the table as late on as March. Now playing in the Bundesliga.

Tom Ince remains one of the most important players at the club to this day.

Jesse Lingard came into the club at an unfortunate time but started for Man Utd this weekend and is in this week's England squad

Darren Bent as bought in as competition for Martin and a plan B, which he was for a while but was forced to lead the line. Scored around 10 goals and kept the attack effective while the defence fell apart.

Those were some effective signings...

I'd also like to discuss the idea that the context is now so vastly different and the current car crash squad we supposedly have.

As far as the squad goes, since McClaren left we've improved our defence dramatically, even Shackell doubters have to admit defensively he's the best player at the club. Richard Keogh, Cyrus Christie and Craig Forsyth remain part of the squad, and other additions such as Marcus Olsson, Max Lowe, Alex Pearce and Farrend Rawson offer a much greater defensive core than the likes of Warnock, Whitbread and Shotton (I will not touch upon the holy case of Saint Jake Buxton).

So he'd be inheriting a better defence.

The midfield is largely the same except with far more options. The losses are Eustace and Hendrick, but in Hendrick's place there are now Butterfield and Johnson. Arguably there is no real replacement for Eustace, but Jamie Hanson is more of a fixture in the side since McClaren left despite not being utilised by Pearson. The key midfielders Thorne, Bryson and Hughes are still there.

So arguably the midfield is as strong as it was when McClaren left.

Our wingers are largely still the same, Ince and Russell still remain from McClaren's tenure. In place of Dawkins and Ward there is now Weimann, Camara, Blackman and Anya, which is undoubtedly a large upgrade, particularly as McClaren was always keen on regularly rotating his wingers.

So it's an improvement on the wingers.

Striker is the real issue. Martin was possibly the morpst important on the field aspect of McClaren's success, but currently is out on loan. Details as to whether he can be recalled remain foggy, but as far as the rest of the strike force goes there's another arguable upgrade. We've still got Bent, who is less mobile but much more built and seems more of an aerial out ball than ever. While Bent is not as mobile anymore, there are plenty of mobile options in Vydra, Wilson and a make shift Nick Blackman if needs be.

The striking department is difficult, but could be quickly resolved in January.

The squad is now deeper than it ever was under McClaren but perhaps not built towards a 4-3-3. I can see where it's bloated, particularly with attacking options, but to call the coaching situation a coach like McClaren would find themselves in a 'car crash' is hardly fair.

Sorry for the long post, congrats if you read it all.

 

I would have to question your view on some of those signings. Steve Mac did better on loans than signings.

Virtually every permanent signing made us worse.

Bent and Ince scored goal on loan but completely upset the pattern of play. I think Weimann was one of Steve's picks before it all went tits up too.

Thorne is a great player, but it hasn't worked out due to any injuries. That obviously isn't Steve's fault but it does add onto the the list of unsuccessful signings. I liked Dawkins but unfortunately he had issues that stopped him reaching his potential with us.

Albentosa, Shotton and Whitbread weren't as good as Bucko

Warnock wasn't as good as Forsyth

Christie wasn't as good as Wisdom

Whilst Ince is a better player than Ward he doesn't suit the Derby Way of playing as much. 

The biggest error was not getting back up for Thorne and Martin.    

To suggest our squad is better now than say at the Wembley Final is poppycock, easily proved as such by a look at the table. 

[PistoldPete2]

1 minute ago, sage said:

I would have to question your view on some of those signings. Steve Mac did better on loans than signings.

Virtually every permanent signing made us worse.

Bent and Ince scored goal on loan but completely upset the pattern of play. I think Weimann was one of Steve's picks before it all went tits up too.

Thorne is a great player, but it hasn't worked out due to any injuries. That obviously isn't Steve's fault but it does add onto the the list of unsuccessful signings. I liked Dawkins but unfortunately he had issues that stopped him reaching his potential with us.

Albentosa, Shotton and Whitbread weren't as good as Bucko

Warnock wasn't as good as Forsyth

Christie wasn't as good as Wisdom

Whilst Ince is a better player than Ward he doesn't suit the Derby Way of playing as much. 

The biggest error was not getting back up for Thorne and Martin.    

To suggest our squad is better now than say at the Wembley Final is poppycock, easily proved as such by a look at the table. 

Most of the players were signed as backup .. so werent expected to be better than what we had. We had Eustace when Mac was here ... so no need for back up to Thorne. Except both got injured. And Mascarelle. Injuries were main reason for the falling away at the end of 2014/15 season. 

[sage]

1 minute ago, PistoldPete2 said:

Most of the players were signed as backup .. so werent expected to be better than what we had. We had Eustace when Mac was here ... so no need for back up to Thorne. Except both got injured. And Mascarelle. Injuries were main reason for the falling away at the end of 2014/15 season. 

I would agree but when Eustace got injured and Thorne was months away from being fit we should have gt someone in on loan to cover Thorne/Eustace.Mascarell and Martin. We didn't. We got Lingard instead and it cost us the play offs.