Alty_Ram

27 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

I have had enough of life now

B4, I know it's a little difficult to be positive right now and waiting for any news is really stressful but please do your best and look after yourself, as David suggests maybe take a little break from all the conflicting and stressy news (at least for this evening) because pretty much everyone is just guessing what happens next anyway.

This is not over yet mate, not by a long way and there are lots of things still happening and lots of important people now involved. This was never going to be an easy mess to sort out and I think that any solution was always likely to be something dramatic and late in the day so keep the faith. I can't absolutely promise you that it will all be OK but I do believe that it will be. There is a saying that goes 'It is always darkest before the dawn' which means that things often seem at their worst just before they get better.

ouch.... doesn't make great reading. Much as we expected to a degree in that the scale of claims if not ruled out as football debt will render the club valueless. Seems quite black and white really. Boro and Wycombe's actions along with EFL complicity will finish the club because regardless of what they think there is no magic pot of money buried under the corner flag that can pay for these claims. Do they still wonder why they are being portrayed as the bad guys now ?

33 minutes ago, RedSox said:

Good old Jack.....https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jack-oconnell-Derby-county-takeover-6516720

Great that he mentions Bury too, If we can get ourselves out of this mess and on an even keel then I really hope that we can arrange some sort of friendly to help them in some small way to get back on their feet.

To quote Jack "I don't want to jump the gun here, but I think once all this is settled and whatever situation we find ourselves in, we do have a duty to turn our focus to resurrecting Bury as a football club." 

I listened to that grinding my teeth but frankly none of that was any real surprise from an American businessman. There was always zero chance of him just going "yeah, you're probably right, I'll withdraw our action". Culturally legal action is taken at the drop of a hat and he won't give a rats ass about tradition and history or fans and local businesses. As much if not more than Gibson this guy would happily see us extinguished without giving it a 2nd thought.

Fundamentally though both he and Gibbo seem to be under the impression that there is a pot of money that we can dip into to make this go away. The only pots of money belong to people who have not yet agreed to take on a financial basket case of a club and that is borderline worth already. Meanwhile our playing assets are at risk and that would further degrade the potential value. Honestly, I just have no idea how this end. I was delighted to see the raising of the profile earlier in parliament but the radio silence from Administrators is rather worrying.

Haha, that has to be a WUM surely ! He knows for a fact that Gibson is doing everything he can to help Derby ! Outstanding ?

Her tone yesterday was by far the most combative so lets see. If she does have a good grasp on things then it would be good to get her to convey this to the other politicians who appear to have completely fallen for the EFL Jedi mind tricks.

"Hey ! these claims are spurious and unfair and you encouraging them is endangering the future of DCFC"

*waves hand on Zoom call* "These are not the spurious claims that you are looking for.."

"These are not the spurious claims that we are looking for..." *walks off*

Here's a thing. Just been on the Sheffield Wednesday board because I was curious as another team that was penalised what they would make of the situation as opposed to some of the 'butter wouldn't melt' brigade that we hear so much from. Some remarkably lucid stuff here that seems to grasp the crux of the issue.. Fair play and I hope you'll forgive me quoting you Owls fans.

"£45million because it was Derbys fault Middlesbrough went on a 6 game losing streak between March and April costing them a play off place? Perhaps if his side actually made an effort to attack Aston Villa in the previous play off campaign, they may have been in the PL that season. What a loser Gibson has become"

 "I don't really get how boro have got a claim for that amount tbh. Was it sorted in court or via the EFL? Is it legitimate or is it pube head trying it on cos he doesn't like other teams having parachute payments etc  but was fine when they had em? As far as I know he doesnt make the rules." 

"They haven’t been awarded anything. It’s pending legal action."

"They can make almost any claim they want. If it was tested in court, I doubt Middlesbrough would be awarded damages anything like that, even if they won."

"The problem for Derby’s administrators is that they don’t have the time or money to fight it in court."

"Are Bristol City looking at suing as well? They gave up after Derby beat them 2-0 at their place (3rd last game of the season). Had they won or draw that game, they would have probably beaten Hull City that season to get 6th place instead of Middlesbrough. Their goal difference would have been better than Boro's. "

"Isn't Gibbo going after us still because we beat Middlesbrough 1-0 that season at their place? Those dropped points didn't help "

"Why are the EFL insisting Boros claim is dealt with ??   It’s a nonsense claim that hasn’t been through the courts so why do the EFL find it reasonable to hold back a takeover on the basis of Boros ‘claim’ "

Sigh... yes we know what the EFLs stated issue is. It's the small matter of it being a load of nonsense. Even leaving aside the sheer cynical mischief making nature of these claims, if our team was so amazing then why didn't we win the playoffs ? How can they claim that they are owed money for this ? Based on League position over a whole season they were a worse team than us so on what grounds can they possibly reasonably claim that they would have won it ? That surely would be laughed out of court. At absolute best they could make a case for receipts from the home leg of the playoff semi.

The whole 'can of worms' nature of this just makes me think that the EFL knows that (at least in current form) it's days are numbered and they won't have to clean up the absolute mess that they are making by encouraging spurious claims and counter claims for any indiscretion amongst the league pyramid. The EFL decision and penalty was supposed to draw a line under things. This other stuff is all just bonkers.

Last night I was mulling over what might be a reasonable comparison to this situation. It seems to me that this has parallels with what historically happened in a certain country in southern Europe. A Sicilian/Italian Gentlemen turns up at your business premises one day and informs you that on some baffling and spurious grounds that your business owes him some money... say for 'Fire Insurance'. When you say that there is no such money owed he gives you a wry smile and observes how flammable your premises look and he then lights up a big fat cigar with a match and flicks the match into your bin where you hurriedly stamp it out. They then take your response back to the head of the family/gang who then threaten terminal consequences for your business if you don't pay up by a certain date.

*sigh...*

Nope...

Sweet Jesus, I've just read the Boro forum... apparently according to some posters Derby are not on their knees and just need to sell their ground, training facility or some players. We don't own the ground you numpties ! That's the point ! Selling players for the sort of derisory numbers offered so far won't cover the cost of Greggs bakes for lunch !

3 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

Just had a look at Middlesbrough FC board and many saying how they aren’t concerned about FFP because Gibson keeps talking about it and is an advocate for it etc...: Remember how much Mel Morris has talked about FFP over the years and that hasn’t helped Derby! 

Well quite... been there done that. Or does sudden desperation to generate funds by trying to sue us suggest that he is perhaps not as comfortable on that front a Boro fans believe. I remember well how we all were keen to hear the situation regarding FFP and were told it was all fine and we swallowed that.

Wow... other EFL clubs finances turn out to be in a total mess. Who knew right ? Here was me thinking that it was just evil cheating Derby when they manage to take a break from seal clubbing and drowning kittens...

The attitude of some vocal fans of other clubs is extremely depressing. I wouldn't wish any club out of existence not even Forest and certainly not just because of something the ex-owner had done. The charges re accountancy were assessed by the good old EFL and we were hit by a points deduction as a result. We have taken that on the chin along with the additional administration sanction. The accounting method applied was not illegal but clearly given FFP considerations and in hindsight it was an obvious attempt to bend the rules but the ranting and foaming at the mouth from some quarters despite us taking our punishment is genuinely baffling. These legal actions by Boro and Wycombe cannot be seen as anything other than an attempt to send DCFC under. There simply isn't the money to pay it so it has to be called out for what it is, malicious attempt to sabotage efforts to save our club and to force DCFC into liquidation.

The naivety shown by some other clubs fans in thinking the actions of Boro and Wycombe is OK and will somehow just teach us a bit of a lesson somehow is quite breath-taking. We are facing an existential threat and some of them seem to think these actions are somehow a relatively minor thing. Their chairmen are trying to kill our club pure and simple. Switch the situations and genuinely I'd be embarrassed and ashamed that the owners of my club were making a conscious and deliberate attempt to doom another club and deprive thousands of football fans of their beloved team.

Where? (County / Country) - Greater Manchester (Trafford)

Nearest league team? (If not DCFC) Manchester United

Why the Rams? Derby born and bred, moved for work. Taken to a game by my mum when just a young lad. Hooked immediately.

Bristol City ?! No ! I was reliably informed that they were paragons of financial virtue whose relentless drive to keep costs at sustainable levels is the only reason that they have not been promoted and as such should all get medals and our thanks. Really, they are an inspiration to us all.

Seriously though, for fans of other clubs who are enjoying our struggles, some of them might like to get their own house in order before getting too smug.

7 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Or?, Until the Administraters come out and say what's what we're all wanting an opinion on our outcome, This is what message boards do, The high proportion of comments imo are valid, But all hyperthetical until someone signs on the dotted line.

Anyway i'm off to book my Xmas Party irrespective if we go into lockdown again 

Just a 'business meeting' that just happens to have wine and nibbles surely ?

Even if we resolve HMRC and Administration there will be nothing to spend so by necessity this is the sort of profile that we need to be looking at, particularly if they are running down a contract. Obviously the majority of these sorts of gambles fail but we are constantly amazed at how other teams find players before they are worth millions and they do it by proper scouting and then taking a punt. I would suggest that being decent in the air and an ability to mix it will be a minimum requirement in League 1 but we need someone who can score a few goals and proven scorers at this level cost money that we don't have so we will have to roll the dice on players like this.

Of course gambles like this need enough slots in the squad too and we may still need someone a bit more proven at League 1 level to replace CKR who is surely not going to be around.

Can't see us getting anything approaching normal market value for anyone sold unless they have multiple clubs chasing them, otherwise expect derisory bids giving just enough to keep the lights on for a little longer. As others have said, the administrators will want to get what they can for any assets but when push comes to shove they won't care about gutting the playing staff for whatever they can get because that's their job. To a point they will want to have a saleable product for prospective buyers but particularly if liquidation seems most likely then they will sell anything not nailed down. 

Without resolving the HMRC situation in a way that makes any financial sense to a potential buyer plus change of ownership by Jan then we are just another a fresh zebra corpse on the Savanna with vultures circling. Getting a workable resolution with HMRC is massive and nothing can move on without it. Also as others have said, players will leave regardless as some of the wages are unsustainable in league 1 even if we manage to stay afloat and get a new owner, others will simply not want to play in league 1 and will have their agents busy already.

Combo of 2,4 and 5 ?

Re the 'City' vs 'AFC' argument. If we were to be called Derby City then I reckon you'd quickly have commentators saying 'And City got back into it when..' or 'City fell behind when..' which would just be weird to get used to. Go with AFC and what happens is everyone just drops the AFC bit and would just say 'Derby'. IMHO of course...

Anyway, it's not over yet B4, chin up mate there's still people fighting to save our club. Some of us have been here before when all seemed hopeless and we managed to survive somehow so hopefully a way can be found with a bit of flexibility and pragmatism on all sides.

We're not looking to just wipe out the debt and storm back into the top flight waving two fingers at people, we're just trying to find a way that our club can continue to operate, hopefully no lower than League 1. Some kind of deal is going to have to be struck with HMRC if this is to happen though but as long as all parties are still talking there is always hope.

Re other teams fans, it looks to me that a certain vocal section of fans want blood but there are also many messages in amongst that even from Bristol City and Boro messageboards that can see that (as always) it is the fans that get the shi**y end of the stick and many (even most) just seem to want to see us take our medicine for a bit not cease to exist entirely.

3 minutes ago, Lander said:

... I fully understand Gibson’s hate for us, if this is true and I have no reason to disbelieve the source given his links in football.

Wouldn't surprise me but we are well past a measured and reasonable grievance now. The man seems obsessed with the destruction of DCFC and given that we have now belatedly followed due process with the EFL and taken our punishment then his actions seem extremely vindictive given that there is no realistic prospect of him seeing that money because we are already on the brink of financial oblivion. Not sure where he is expecting another 45 quid to come from never mind 45 million.

It's hard to conclude that it is anything other than a deliberate attempt to to sabotage the potential rescue of the club from liquidation by delaying the conclusion of a potential sale of the club which would almost certainly kill DCFC as surely as actually winning the case. Currently Gibson and Boro seem to be attempting to drive another club out of business and it is one man's personal crusade.

There are several clubs that I can't stand but I'm a football fan and whatever the rivalries and grievances I would seriously hope that DCFC were never the cause of a football club ceasing to exist. Boro better hope that they never need a bit of understanding and slack from other clubs in order to continue to stay afloat.

To be fair, (and as someone else said earlier) apart from the some fanatics it seems that there is a subtle change of the mood music from fans of other clubs now that we have eventually fronted up and taken our penalties as agreed with the EFL and some grudging admiration for the spirit shown at the weekend. That is clearly not enough for some though but we've taken our medicine from the EFL and now we'd like to be able to turn our attention to hopefully ensuring the continued existence of the club that we all love. You'd hope that other football folk would have some empathy for that at least.

16 minutes ago, StrawHillRam said:

Unless he actually is that vindictive

.... Ahh.. ohh..

26 minutes ago, angieram said:

Good fun, though! ?