maxjam

21 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I didn't say that they wouldn't land on Mars, in fact I said my best hope is that we will land a person (eventually) but it's pretty much a given that they will die. Then we will give up on the idea of ever building a human colony there.

The trip to Mars in space is long. Much longer than going to the moon. People should stop conflating the two things as the same

Astronauts need to be sustained and kept sane for that long, and also have enough supplies to last for an indefinite period. Carl has talked about the transfer window being limited (Earth needs to be in the right place relative to Mars for the trip to be as short as possible), so opportunities to re-supply are therefore limited

Mars has virtually no magnetic field. and virtually no atmosphere so you can't hang around on the surface too long because of solar radiation and the soil is comprised of fine sand that is highly carcinogenic, so again, very difficult to start digging it up to build stuff.

It's very cold (-153c). Humans will need an energy source to keep warm, let alone power machinery, life support etc. Solar panels aren't a very good solution as Mars is that much further from the sun. So nuclear energy is the only real solution, but very difficult and some way off

We've also talked about the lack of gravity and its effect on human bone density - the length of the trip to Mars and then the idea that humans can hang around on Mars for any amount of time is fatally flawed by the fact that the astronauts will be crippled pretty quickly.

And finally- the cost of solving ALL of the above is incomprehensibly large, so there has to be some benefit. If we ever make it to Mars I strongly suspect that we will find there is no reason to be there and it will be money wasted that we could have spent engineering solutions to our own problems. The sci-fi wetdream of us being a "multi-planetary species" is very silly. Mars is even more inhospitable and ill-suited to human life than a globally warmed planet. At least we'd be looking for solutions in a breathable atmosphere with the correct gravity.

I get that it's a whizz-bang exciting idea for sci-fi fans, but unfortunately it's not sci-fi and we can't suspend our disbelief on this one. I love Star Wars too but I'm just being a realist. Sorry

Well, I appreciate the response.  If we could all keep the thread somewhat on track in future for those that 'dare to dream' it would be appreciated.

A lot of the stuff you mention do seem like insurmountable problems - similar 'insurmountable' problems we faced when we first thought about going to the Moon.  However, I'm 100% certain that NASA, SpaceX etc are aware of the problems and are coming up with solutions.  I linked this page from the NASA website previously;

https://www.nasa.gov/humans-in-space/humans-to-mars/

Personally, I think its only a matter of time until humans have a permanent presence on both the Moon and Mars.  Yes there are huge challenges ahead and the timescales quoted may be optimistic, but I feel confident that I'll see it in my lifetime. 

3 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

Actually no - I don't hate him at all. And certainly not for his political views. He can have whatever political views he wants.

I do however find it deeply weird how he inspires this cult-like quasi-religious devotion from certain people (and that's no exaggeration when our resident Chief Scientist of the Red Pills literally called him the saviour of the human race the other day). Especially when the same people are very quick to tell you how much they dislike religion and the hold it has over people. Go figure.

I'm also raising a strong eyebrow at those on here who have spent the past few years regurgitating talking points from US Youtube videos about how they think Big Tech is run by super rich people with terrifying agendas to suppress our freedom, yet are cheering and whooping for Elon as if the Billionaire Musk doesn't have his own agenda to impose his will on the entire bloody world (X as a super-app anyone? "Let no man buy or sell lest has the number of the beast" etc). Like I say - pop another red pill and tell me when the mist clears

Please point me to the place where I said I don't want SpaceX to achieve it's aims? I've actually said multiple times that I would love nothing more than to see a man on Mars, just that my gut (and copious amounts of evidence) lead me to think it's not very likely. Bear in mind that we're still in the "trying to not have the rocket explode shortly after take-off" phase - which should be the easy bit. Then we have the how do we now get it to carry people safely and then the how do we get it all the way to Mars, and then the how do we land it, then what do we do when we get there. In the current trial and error mode that Musk seems to favour I think the best bet is to not have so many people die in the process that we run out of volunteers

Okay I'll bite, but I'm sticking to the space bit, I've got no time for the continued red pill rubbish. 

What copious amounts of evidence do you have to suggest that SpaceX aren't going to land on Mars?  Without repeating the rocket exploding argument - they went through the exact same process designing the previous rockets and reusable boosters that now haul virtually everything up into space.

Furthermore, if you are so adamant SpaceX aren't going to land on Mars do you think they should just simply stop now?  Or do you think they should continue to push the boundaries of what may or may not be achievable?  If its the latter, do you think those of us that have a genuine interest in the subject would like to discuss it without the thread being continually hijacked by an anti-Musk, anti-[insert forum user] agenda?

Ignoring your gut for a moment do you think that NASA, funded by the US Govt - currently one of Musks major fanboys (yes that was irony) would congratulate SpaceX on a successful launch the other day, if it was just a rocket blowing up?  And do you think they would have awarded SpaceX the $3bn contract for the moon lander if they were just going to continually blow up the money without gaining data and making progress?  It is also worth noting that NASA are not only planning on using the lander designed by SpaceX to land on the Moon, but also the rocket they are currently designing to get them there. 

And finally, how many people have SpaceX killed so far in testing?  How many did NASA kill during testing and live missions?  And what leads you think SpaceX will sacrifice anyone?  I don't know whether this is up-to-date, but as of the end of August SpaceX has launched 11 crewed missions (42 people) into space - and they have all come back alive.

https://spaceexplored.com/2023/08/26/spacex-crewed-flights/

Sure Musk has joked that people might not come back from Mars - the following for example, but Musk says a lot of stupid stuff;

"It's dangerous, it's uncomfortable, it's a long journey. You might not come back alive. But it's a glorious adventure, and it'll be an amazing experience," he said. "You might die ... and you probably won't have good food and all these things. It's an arduous and dangerous journey where you may not come back alive, but it's a glorious adventure," Musk said.

"Sounds appealing," Musk laughed.

https://www.space.com/elon-musk-mars-spacex-risks-astronauts-die

But if it gets to the stage that people are strapped in, counting down to take off it will be no different than the astronauts that went to the Moon.  President Nixon even had a speech prepared for if the worst happened;

'Fate has ordained that the men who went to the moon to explore in peace will stay on the moon to rest in peace.

These brave men, Neil Armstrong and Edwin Aldrin, know that there is no hope for their recovery. But they also know that there is hope for mankind in their sacrifice.

These two men are laying down their lives in mankind’s most noble goal: the search for truth and understanding.

They will be mourned by their families and friends; they will be mourned by their nation; they will be mourned by the people of the world; they will be mourned by a Mother Earth that dared send two of her sons into the unknown.

In their exploration, they stirred the people of the world to feel as one; in their sacrifice, they bind more tightly the brotherhood of man.

In ancient days, men looked at stars and saw their heroes in the constellations. In modern times, we do much the same, but our heroes are epic men of flesh and blood.

Others will follow, and surely find their way home. Man’s search will not be denied. But these men were the first, and they will remain the foremost in our hearts.

For every human being who looks up at the moon in the nights to come will know that there is some corner of another world that is forever mankind.'

Even the later astronauts during the Shuttle era new the risks were 1 in 75;

https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1191013/moon-landing-nasa-odds-total-destruction-mike-massimino-apollo-11-mission-control-spt

Later, this was revised down to about 1 in 9;

https://www.npr.org/2011/03/04/134265291/early-space-shuttle-flights-riskier-than-estimated

Space travel is dangerous, its right on the edge of what is possible and being the first to do anything always carries risk - but the first astronauts won't simply be sacrificial lambs.  I'd imagine the rocket will be the most technologically advanced rocket humans will have ever made, tested to the best of our abilities and knowledge and as seen above, the Astronauts will know full well the odds of making it back safely.  And if the worst does happen, to paraphrase the above;

'They will be mourned  [but] others will follow, and surely find their way home. Man’s search will not be denied.'

48 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Fairly obvious what the Media Matters lawsuit is about

They are an organisation whose sole purpose is to highlight misinformation in the conservative media. Calling them "anti-free speech" is laughable. They don't lobby to have stuff taken down, they simply shine a light on where the misinformation lies

So they will be a constant thorn in Twitter's side now that Twitter is algorithimically programmed to amplify misinformation if paid accounts are posting it

So no wonder Twitter wants to squish them. 

Pop another red pill lads, the rabbit hole goes deeper than you all think

 Or create a light where non was shining before?

I would imagine that if they have gamed the system and created and the amplified results that don't exist, it would be easy to prove. 

They may not be catching the attention of the media now-a-days but SpaceX continues to launch rockets into space on a regular basis - this was from a little earlier today;

And I still think these are CGI as I'm still not sure how you can land a cylinder upright!!! 

Despite the laughs and giggles from those that hope Musk fails at everything he touches, SpaceX are actually doing a damn good job right now.  This year they launched approx 80% of all material into space.  Next year it will launch approx 90% of the worlds payload into space.  Not bad for a company for a company that came from nowhere to dominate the industry in a short period of time after suffering numerous rapid unscheduled disassemblies before finally 'learning to fly'. 

https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/09/spacex-broke-its-record-for-number-of-launches-in-a-year/

Personally, I think you'd be foolish to back against SpaceX making the rocket that gets human to both the Moon and Mars.  NASA seem to think they are capable, they are scheduled to use the final version of the Starship and have awarded SpaceX the $3bn moon lander contract. 

17 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

I did enjoy! And was somewhat surprised when one of my authors made a cameo appearance. Cheers!

Yeah I forgot to thank @ramit, he posted another Why Files video a while back.  I enjoyed that and ended up watching most of the videos on the channel.  The guy does a good job of describing a mystery (and who doesn't enjoy a good mystery!) Then ends with a bunch of facts or opposing views to bring balance or debunk the claims.  Its one of the better channels of its ilk on youtube.

1 hour ago, cstand said:

I would advise to ignore the politically motivated anti Musk brigade. 
Just concentrate on the technical achievements of SpaceX over the years which is more enjoyable and interesting. 
 

Yup, its not worth engaging the obvious trolls, they have got the twitter thread to poke needles in their Elon Musk doll.

The next 10 years are going to be really interesting what with NASA and SpaceX both seemingly having the Moon and Mars in their sights.  I had only just been born the last time we went to the moon, seeing people walk on the Moon and potentially Mars is something I've been waiting for my whole life.

39 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

I don’t mean to show off but… ✅ 

Good, I'm happy for you 😛 

10 minutes ago, The Last Post said:

An explanation please.

I've read the reason for SpaceX was/is to reduce cost and eventually take man/woman to Mars...is this correct, Also I understand the reason for 1,2, 3 or more test flights, Is there anyone out there that would put their lives at risk knowing that you're dicing with death 🤷‍♂️

Well there are about 20k highly qualified Americans desperate for the opportunity.

https://www.nasa.gov/general/astronaut-requirements/

I'd guess the ESA and SpaceX have similar requirements.

For me it boils down to exploration, discovery and human advancement.  Why else did people sail over the horizon all those years ago?

Witnessing a launch in person is on my bucket list.

1 hour ago, Carl Sagan said:

Fabulous test. First time around, as well as the pad disintegrating, many of the Raptor engines on the SuperHeavy booster failed, both elements combining to mean the trajectory was far from "nominal". And then the two parts failed to separate.

This time the pad remained intact, all 33 booster Raptors fired magnificently for the entire duration, and then the two ships separated.

A shame the SuperHeavy booster experienced its rapid unscheduled disassembly soon after, but it was beautiful to see the Starship fly off into the sunrise, and on into space. Its own Raptor engines (3 sea level in the centre and 3 vacuum around the outside) burned for a further 6 minutes, propelling it to 20,000 kmh and a height of 150km (when the official boundary of space is 100km). What a result!

So they don't put anyone at risk, both vehicles are armed with explosives so they can be blown up in case anything goes wrong (the flight termination system or FTS). It seems that just before Starship's engines shut down to allow it to coast to over Hawaii before reentry, something triggered the FTS. Oh well. But the key objectives of this flight test were achieved and the great thing is, with the launchpad fine and licences in place, they have lots more test rockets already built and nearly ready to go. I'd expect test flight 3 in a couple of months and the cadence to really start ratcheting up.

You have to love Twitter's AI, Grok, which has given a hilarious summary in almost real-time (another powerful technology):

 

Yep, another 'good day at the office'.

And even when things go a bit awry, it still looks spectacular!

Exciting stuff, everything seemed to go well 🙂

15 hours ago, oomarkwright said:

What is the best platform to watch it live? 

Live views of Grindavík and earthquake monitor on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=804nPrAUAxg

Desperately sad news, 38 is no age 😞

His unwavering positivity re. The Rams will be missed and maybe something we could all learn from when things aren't going our way.

Condolences to his friends and family.  Once a Ram always a Ram.

To be fair I do similar after I lose a match on Football Manager.

11 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Resale value…..I go to bed dreaming about resale value 😴💤🛌🥱 Shouldn’t really have signed McGoldrick as we got B all for him when he left ☹️

I don't recall McGoldrick costing a transfer fee.  He came on a free, left on a free.

Not thinking about resale value whilst throwing money at promotion attempts got us where we are today.  Like it or not, we're living within our means now.  The days of throwing away transfer fees on 30+ year olds are gone.

7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

So we chucked the money at Bradley instead? Goals cost money, always have. We could have sold him on if he'd scored us to promotion. 

He came on a free and arrived with a fanfare iirc.

Its probably not as easy as simply saying we could have sold him on if he's on a decent wage (+ promotion pay rise) for 3yrs.  If its his final big contract, he might just want to milk it.  Hence character questions?

15 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

There were definitely players he could have bought, I’ve been told he turned down the chance to sign Alfie May because he wasn’t up to his “character” standards. He’s scored 11 goals for Charlton already.

There was a good chat on Radio Derby about him after the match.  Apparently he wanted a decent amount of money and a 3yr deal, which led onto the point that if we were to get promoted we'd be stuck with another 30+ yr old thats not good enough for the Championship whilst we're trying to live within our means.

We're in a tricky situation, we need players to get out of the division but don't want to be lumbered with them if we go up.  The days of simply chucking more money at it are gone. 

Ideally you'd have a youth academy producing players but that obviously had most of the talent stripped during administration. I know the football is a bit desperate at times but I'm still willing to be patient due to the fact that as a club we aren't equipped to really progress yet, we're still in the recovery period shopping in the bargain basement bin and waiting for a new crop of youngsters to develop.

Just now, rammieib said:

Today more than any other game was our inability to finish. Some of the attempts were pathetic.

This falls on PW as he failed to get a replacement striker in. That was the same front six, with Washington replacing Didzy - so not one single person can argue we strengthened.

Thats on PW as he didn’t have the ability or pull to get anyone in.

Or the finances?

I thought Liverpool's third goal today was really good 👀

My Brother-in-Law is a Birmingham City fan.

I personally think Rooney's doing a great job 😛

Aaaaand talking of being run terribly...

https://news.sky.com/story/everton-could-face-12-point-deduction-over-alleged-financial-breaches-12992654

2 hours ago, angieram said:

Meanwhile elsewhere...