Leicester Ram

As I said before with the Sheikh, following a football club is much more than the owner's far right politics.
We'll all be here long after he's pissed off, I can't stop following the club that is a huge enough a part of my life for me to post regularly on here for the past decade even though I can't stand Alonso's politics.
Derby isn't the owner, it's the fans, players, pubs, mascots, ex-players, managers, coaches, academy lads who make one appearance then never play again, blokes pissing in the Derwent on the way to the stadium, old women in the west stand and little kids in the south stand.

My mistake, I'm mixing him up with the guy who represented the EFL who erm did not nail it.

I’ve been consistently frustrated with how little Sibley has played under Rooney but I’m hesitant to criticise his comments.
Different players are motivated in different ways, they’re unique people with varied personalities. Rooney may well know that Sibley will respond well to this. We don’t have that knowledge of what’s appropriate for this team
But I do think it’s high time to mix up the attacking plan. Getting Sibley playing off Kazim seems like the natural next step, for me. Or Watson and Knight playing in front of Shinnie in midfield? We do need a change to start creating more chances. More appearances for Gregory and Waghorn doesn’t seem to be it.

So I finally got round to finishing Pride this week despite getting it months ago.
I first became aware of Pride last year when my girlfriend dropped into conversation that she’d dated a Derby fan before and that he was writing a book about the club. Now it’s come out to deservedly rave reviews and @HuddersRam is a bit of a star, I do wonder if I’d swap the girlfriend for the publishing deal. To be fair, she’s probably thinking that she’d definitely swap “Leicester Ram” for a ducking bestselling author.
I’ve always found it difficult consuming media/content about Derby because it’s something that I’m so passionate and opinionated about, I barely listen to any of the numerous DCFC Podcasts because they just end up pissing me off. I think it’s an incredibly hard job to be a Derby fan writing about the club because you are bound to ruffle feathers because we’re all so in love with Derby, which is why Pride is such a triumph. 
After initially flying through the first half of the book I flung it across the room halfway through the Zamora chapter and didn’t read it again for at least a month. It’s not something I’m usually bothered about and have been known to yell ZAMORA when hitting a volley but reliving that day in detail really re-emphasised how traumatic of an injustice it was.
When I started reading again the same thing happened with Mac II, that undeserved sacking still doesn’t sit right with me and that season was such a headache from start to finish that it makes for particularly grim reading. Mel having Pearson explain himself to him in his office was particularly cringe inducing and the book flew across the room once more.
Despite all that, it’s a masterpiece. I’m 24 so I’m most familiar with 2009 onwards and I learned so much about DCFC that I never knew before. I went in expecting to trudge through the 90’s and 00’s to get to the chaos of 2013-2020 but every chapter was simply a banger regardless of his familiar I was with whichever season it was covering. I think as a fanbase we’re incredibly lucky to have a book on the clubs history written at such a high standard. It’s packed with the inside scoops and details (that lesser writers would perhaps get bogged down with) but maintains a slick pace, all while artfully handling the multiple legal landmines surrounding the club. It’s somehow both a comprehensive history of DCFC and a page turning tragedy that you could easily finish in a day.
Ryan’s articles are also excellent, the interview he did with Lewin Nyatanga is well worthy of The Athletic/Independent etc. It shows how much brilliant stuff must have not even made it into Pride. I can’t recommend it enough: https://thederbybook.wordpress.com/2020/07/12/sitting-down-with-lewin-nyatanga/
I’ll forgive what I think is an egregiously generous treatment of Gary Rowett (his off brand trainers were poo long before he went to Stoke) and say that if you haven’t read it yet, order Pride on Amazon immediately. Reading it is an incredibly cathartic experience and it’s exciting to see there’s another book coming too.
Huge thanks to Ryan who I can confirm is a top bloke and really kindly hooked me up with a Bryson signed copy of the book for my uncle.

Try walking up the down escalator, That's what WR was dealt, He was given a Pigs ear to try and make a silk purse, This squad is head and shoulders better prepared than what PC left, I'll say it again...this division is unforgiving, We were down with the dead men once upon a time, WR has given this club a sense of belief, There's not even a thought from me that we will be in danger of going down ?

Just shows you what a horrendous start to the season it was

Said on here last summer he was arguably our most talented player. Didn’t have as good of a season under Cocu as he did under Lampard but there were times when we had Mount, Wilson and Tomori playing and Bogle looked the most talented player on the pitch.
Lucky for us Nathan Byrne is excellent but I do wish we’d been in a position to hold onto Bogle. He’s a brilliant player and he’s still got room to improve. I hope he gets himself a move back to the PL when Sheff United go down.

Here's a summary of the key points of the Podcast, including details about the clause. This is from memory (with a bit of date checking) so many not be 100% accurate.
    • Early in his career at WBA, Thorne has started to establish himself and was in negotiations for a new contract. However when he did his ACL at West Brom they took his contract offer off the table.
    • When he wants to come on loan to Derby in January 2014, WBA say they'll only sanction the move if he signs a new deal the terms of which are nowhere near those of the contract previously offered. He reluctantly signs so that he can secure the loan move to Derby and play some football.
    • At Derby on loan he has to wait until John Eustace gets suspended to get his chance of first team football. Whilst waiting for his opportunity, he's asked by McClaren (via Paul Simpson), at very short notice to play for the Under-23s to 'get him up to speed' on what was scheduled to be a weekend off for the first team.  Thorne's perspective is that he's come on loan to be part of the first team squad, not the Under-23s and anyway he  has already made firm arrangements for the weekend with some of his friends and so refuses to play. Keogh and Lee Grant both let him know that they thought he was out of order!
    • When he eventually get his chance in the first team, Thorne is, as we all remember, absolutely exceptional and keeps his place in the side. The team spirit in the squad was very strong  (elsewhere Thorne has referred to  Derby as having a 'unique dressing room' at that time) and Thorne said that by the time of the play-off final he no longer felt like a loan player due to the bond he had with the rest of the squad. After *somehow* losing the play-off final, Thorne's agent asked him what he wanted to happen over the summer. Thorne's response was emphatic and unequivocal - "just get me to Derby".
    • Thorne did everything conceivable to make the move happen, submitting transfer request after transfer request ('hundreds') to West Brom and even, on the advice of his agent, going so far as to kick balls away in training etc. Eventually a deal was agreed with WBA but unbeknown to Thorne at the time, the deal included the clause that Derby had to pay West Brom £15k every time Thorne made a first team appearance. Incidentally, Thorne says he didn't really have a full medical when he signed for Derby. He just met up with Neil Sullivan at a hotel who more or less just said "hello again George".
    • Not long after signing, Thorne ruptured his ACL again in a meaningless pre-season friendly on a poor quality pitch and faced a long spell on the side-lines. He returned to the first team towards the end of the 2014/2015 season for a handful of appearances.
    • Thorne made a direct connection between Derby's loss of from after Christmas and McClaren's failure to dismiss persistent speculation about the Newcastle job. He also states that this was the reason why McClaren was ultimately sacked by Mel Morris at the end of that season.
    • Paul Clement took over from McClaren and Thorne made 36 appearances in that season. Thorne's view was that Clement was a fantastic coach but made the mistake of trying to get Derby to play like Real Madrid despite being a Championship side. Nevertheless, when Clement was sacked after Christmas in early 2016 after a winless run of 7 games, Thorne and the rest of the players were absolutely incredulous as they were fifth in the league and still considered themselves serious contenders for automatic promotion. The players were convinced however, that Mel Morris must have a high profile replacement already lined up in order to have made such a decision and were therefore underwhelmed (to say the least) by the appointment of academy coach Darren Wassall. Thorne accepts that, because Wassall wasn't an established manager, not all the players gave him the respect he deserved but also said that Wassall compounded this by making a series of seemingly inexplicably decisions. Snatching a 3-3 draw from the jaws of victory at Rotheram by bringing on two strikers when they were 3-0 up with 15 minutes to go was highlighted as a specific example.
    • Thorne broke his leg on the last match of the season at home to Ipswich, sustaining the worst injury of his career and missed the entire 2016-2017 season. Almost everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong during Thorne's recovery from the double leg break. He was in constant pain and repeatedly told the Derby medical staff there something wasn't right during various stages of his recovery. They reassured him that the pain was to be expected and then later that his now persistent limp was 'psychological' but when Thorne was eventually referred back to the Specialist consultants on a series of occasions, they confirmed that there were serious underlying issues including, metal fittings that were the wrong size, screws that had come loose and an infection in the metal rod inside Thorne's leg, all of which required further surgery and, for the infection, 10 days in hospital on antibiotics. Thorne also felt that prescribed recovery plan during his recuperation placed too much emphasis on weight training. He was reluctant to embark on a fitness programme which would lead to him gaining additional muscle bulk as he was concerned this would impact his mobility. Thorne's view is that injury recovery programmes at football clubs should be more personally tailored to the physique and personal characteristics of the individual player rather than just simply defaulting to weight training.
    • Thorne eventually returned to the first team in 2017/2018 under Gary Rowett. Thorne credits Rowett as being the one manager who gave enough him the time to recover fully from any injuries he incurred, However after what was, by his own admission, a poor performance against Sunderland in March 2018,  Rowett never selected Thorne to play for Derby again.
    • When Rowett left for Stoke and was replaced by Frank Lampard, Thorne did everything he could to ensure he was in top physical condition when he returned for pre-season and says he weighed less than he did when he initially came to Derby on loan in and was fitter than he'd ever been. He was determined to make it impossible for the manager not to select him but after he was the only member of a 23 man squad not to get on the pitch during a pre-season friendly, Thorne went to see Lampard to ask what the problem was. According to Thorne, Lampard was evasive and made what Thorne felt were 'excuses' about him not doing extra voluntary training sessions during pre-season. This would have been on top of the 3 sessions a day they were already doing and Thorne's position was, perhaps understandably, that he was trying to ensure he didn't pick up any more injuries as he didn’t want to 'fall behind the rest of the lads'. Lampard also referenced what were just temporary (daily) fluctuations in Thorne's weight which had, in fact, already resolved themselves by the time of the conversation.
    • Thorne came to the conclusion that he wasn't going to part of Lampard's plans and therefore wanted to play football elsewhere. He was made aware that Steve McClaren, recently appointed by QPR, wanted to sign him on loan and pleaded with Derby to make the deal happen. Derby wanted more money but QPR were under serious financial constraints and stated that they couldn't afford to pay more. Thorne went to see Mel Morris and offered to make up the difference between what Derby wanted and what QPR were offering out of his own wages at a cost to him of £2k per week but Derby refused his offer, insisting they wanted more money directly from QPR. The loan deal didn't happen and Thorne remained at Derby but was excluded from the first team and was left to train with the under-23s (with Martin, Anya and Alex Pearce).
    • A similar sequence of events happened when Lampard departed for Chelsea and was replaced by Philip Cocu. Thorne arrived back for pre-season (according to him) in the best possible physical condition but it became clear to him that he wasn't part of Cocu's plans. Cocu handled the situation much more amicably than Lampard had but told Thorne it would be better for everyone if he found another club. Mel Morris asked to see Thorne at some around this time and told Thorne about the clause in the original deal with WBA which meant that Derby had to pay them £15k every time Thorne played for Derby. Morris explained that Derby could no longer afford these outgoing costs so Thorne could not therefore be part of the first team squad. Thorne was devastated and angry to discover that this was why he had been frozen out for two consecutive seasons in a row as he felt that the club had effectively wasted two years of his footballing career by not making him aware of the full facts of his situation.  
    • Thorne went on load to Luton in Jnaury 2019 and eventually ended up moving from Derby to Oxford United, first on loan in August 2019 and then on a permanent transfer in January 2020 on a short-term contract until the end of the season. He is currently without a club and semi-retired.
    • Finally, Thorne stated that the situation Derby are in now has been 'a long time coming' and that since the QPR play-off final, Morris had spent £30 million on players which he thought most Derby fans would agree had ultimately made the squad weaker rather than stronger.
Obviously this is just Thorne's side of the story and so needs to be understood in that context but the apparent failure to tell him about the clause along with the refusal to let him join up with McClaren at QPR don't, on the face of it, reflect well on the club.
The podcast really is well worth listening to. It's almost like a history of Derby County since just before the QPR play-off final as told from Thorne's personal perspective.
 

Meanwhile in the EFL offices...

Ah, I see now that we were never interested in Mendez-Laing, this was all just a ploy to get Roberts! Derby conjuring up transfer magic as per.
Rooney and Mel playing 4D chess while Steve Gibson chokes on that little race car you use in monopoly ?

Ah, I see now that we were never interested in Mendez-Laing, this was all just a ploy to get Roberts! Derby conjuring up transfer magic as per.
Rooney and Mel playing 4D chess while Steve Gibson chokes on that little race car you use in monopoly ?

We’ll have arguably lost three CB’s in MTW, Davies and Evans if he goes. May well play more three at the back now Bielik has gone down.
Wasn't expecting two CB’s but it makes sense now we’re doing it.

We’ll have arguably lost three CB’s in MTW, Davies and Evans if he goes. May well play more three at the back now Bielik has gone down.
Wasn't expecting two CB’s but it makes sense now we’re doing it.

We’ll have arguably lost three CB’s in MTW, Davies and Evans if he goes. May well play more three at the back now Bielik has gone down.
Wasn't expecting two CB’s but it makes sense now we’re doing it.

We’ll have arguably lost three CB’s in MTW, Davies and Evans if he goes. May well play more three at the back now Bielik has gone down.
Wasn't expecting two CB’s but it makes sense now we’re doing it.

..except he wasn't sacked as a response to him taking part in the events of the night, the club's intentions were never to sack anyone but hand out a suitable punishment for the players' actions & the consequence of them. The club wanted to assist with the rehabilitation of all involved.  It's Keogh's pigheadedness and lack of ability to take any personal responsibility for what happened to him that got him sacked.
The bolded part is simply nonsense.
If I rendered myself unable to work for 6 months through my own stupidity I wouldn't 'resign on the spot' I'd wait to see what the company said about it, but fully expect that the most likely outcome is that I'm going to be sacked. I wouldn't be entitled to full sick play because I'd broken the terms of my contract, I'd be facing the prospect of a sacking on my CV, to have ruined my chance of a reference for another job, damaged my reputation and to receive no pay until I found myself another job.
You talk about people being treated decently?
If my employer came back to me and offered me the chance to keep my job, pay for the medical bills to help me get back in working condition and actually pay me a salary throughout it I'd snap their bloody hands off - not act like I was entitled to more than they've offered me.
I'd feel like the luckiest man alive, I'd feel like I'd been  treated very decently indeed.
..but then I'm not an arrogant, entitled rick who doesn't accept responsibility for his own actions.

Hopefully if he does well it could lead to a full season loan next year too

Rooney would have to pick him.

Can’t fault someone for betting on themselves. As good as I think we are for academy graduates, he could well spend the rest of his life thinking ‘what if I took that move to Liverpool’.
Not something you want to happen, it really is a profession where sometimes that one chance is all it takes. So many of these players have the talent but don’t get that opportunity to prove themselves. Could get one sub appearance at Liverpool where he makes an impression etc etc
We’ll take the money for someone who hasn’t done anything yet. Maybe it will haunt us all forever, maybe we’ll never think about the lad again. Best of luck to him.
 

Oi... Leave me out of it! 

Didn't see anyone on here complaining about Bogle not showing loyalty to Swindon when we picked him up at 16. What about Jason Knight? We poached him at 16 from his club. He was there from the age of 4. He should have shown them loyalty and turned us down right? You can't complain that Liverpool are doing this to us, when we do it to countless other clubs multiple times a season.

Can’t fault someone for betting on themselves. As good as I think we are for academy graduates, he could well spend the rest of his life thinking ‘what if I took that move to Liverpool’.
Not something you want to happen, it really is a profession where sometimes that one chance is all it takes. So many of these players have the talent but don’t get that opportunity to prove themselves. Could get one sub appearance at Liverpool where he makes an impression etc etc
We’ll take the money for someone who hasn’t done anything yet. Maybe it will haunt us all forever, maybe we’ll never think about the lad again. Best of luck to him.
 

Can’t fault someone for betting on themselves. As good as I think we are for academy graduates, he could well spend the rest of his life thinking ‘what if I took that move to Liverpool’.
Not something you want to happen, it really is a profession where sometimes that one chance is all it takes. So many of these players have the talent but don’t get that opportunity to prove themselves. Could get one sub appearance at Liverpool where he makes an impression etc etc
We’ll take the money for someone who hasn’t done anything yet. Maybe it will haunt us all forever, maybe we’ll never think about the lad again. Best of luck to him.
 

I think he’ll play plenty between now and the end of the season. If we go back to a 4-3-3, he can fit with Jozwiak and Kazim up top, even if he’s not really a winger.
It would be nice to have him more central and in midfield but right now Shinnie, Knight and Bielik are undroppable. They’re getting results for us when we desperately need them so it’s a waiting game for him. It’s nothing to move club over though, my gut says that Shinnie is playing well now but we’ll eventually outgrow the need for such a defensive step up.
I stare at our starting lineups and think if we replaced Shinnie with Sibley it’s a tasty team but Shinnie proves me wrong twice a ducking week. Hopefully a Knight, Sibley and Bielik midfield will happen eventually, it looks so balanced and talented on paper.

I think he’ll play plenty between now and the end of the season. If we go back to a 4-3-3, he can fit with Jozwiak and Kazim up top, even if he’s not really a winger.
It would be nice to have him more central and in midfield but right now Shinnie, Knight and Bielik are undroppable. They’re getting results for us when we desperately need them so it’s a waiting game for him. It’s nothing to move club over though, my gut says that Shinnie is playing well now but we’ll eventually outgrow the need for such a defensive step up.
I stare at our starting lineups and think if we replaced Shinnie with Sibley it’s a tasty team but Shinnie proves me wrong twice a ducking week. Hopefully a Knight, Sibley and Bielik midfield will happen eventually, it looks so balanced and talented on paper.