TuffLuff

I think the title sums it up how I think certain fans think. 

No matter what happened, Nigel Clough was never good enough for Derby County. No matter what will happen, Paul Warne will never be seen as good enough for Derby County. 

Clough reset the club after the worst season any of us could imagine, it took time on a limited budget but he lay the path for what Mclaren should have achieved. Warne is the next one trying to build something long term.

Sorry, I just don’t get the entitlement

It’s worth pointing out he’s sent this on the morning of a home game!

Wouldn’t trust a badger if they got any bigger tbh

2 hours ago, sage said:

             Fornah   Bird 

NML        Embleton     Barkhuizen

 

I’m not Bird’s biggest fan overall, whilst appreciating his contributions, but I have to say that Fornah and Bird I think is our best long term option. Smith and Thompson back ups then Hourihane/Sibley/Embleton/Barks/NML/John-Jules even Waghorn working the attacking 3 positions 

37 minutes ago, richinspain said:

I'm sure @Red_Dawn will tell you that survival in the Prem is no big deal.

I think Forest did the only thing that was weirdly smart in that they spent a lot of money on players to rebuild very quick, they replaced not only their loans but a bulk of what had got them promoted, did it give them a surivival mindset rather than one to think they had already achieved?

We can say it was an irresponsible approach, when you go out and lay £42 million on MGW, how much has that impacted the inflation on prices this year? We can also say that most of them aren’t very good players and there is a lot of wasted money but the scatter gun approach so far has worked for them. In the short term at least anyway, it’s whether it’ll work long term that’ll be more questionable.

I think this is my main takeaway from yesterdays games. Started at 12 about to watch Stoke Vs Hull and was thinking how wrong it was for Sky Sports to have something like a two hour build up to the North London derby when you’ve got what should be a decent game on Fwiw, I’ve thought this before when they’ve got an SPL game on and I think it’s a large part of what’s wrong with the SSPrem, SSFootball, SS MainEvent model. It would be better exposure for those leagues to have those games on as part of your full days coverage!

But after watching it, I don’t know if I can honestly say I’m convinced by that argument anymore. Hull were ok but it wasn’t really a convincing performance despite it being a 3-1 away win. Hull are now fourth and I think that is saying more about the league than to how good Hull look. Take Stoke yesterday as the example, in that they looked lost, unbalanced and unmotivated. I honestly think if Derby had produced that on a Sunday 12 o clock ko we’d be giving them a bit more than a few boos around the stadium. They were just abject. How many other clubs are really just treading water with managers who haven’t achieved anything or living on a last glory? How many sides in that league are actually worth watching? The finances of these clubs, as we well know, are ultimately playing a huge part in all this but I do think in part it’s an easy crutch for some of these managers who go club to club not doing an awful lot. Russell Martin may be sacked from Southampton but what’s the money that he ends up at Swansea or a mid table champ club when that happens? It’s a modern equivalent of the managerial merry go round 15-20 years ago. 

The knock on effect to this is now what we are seeing currently at the bottom of the prem. Sheffield United look poor with a manager out of his depth, a team like Luton can get promoted out the champ who don’t seem ready for that jump and Burnley who can probably get out of the relegation zone but need to pick up points. Yes the championship is a very open league but it’s all football purgatory and the effort it takes to get out of it is seen as the final battle rather than just the beginning. That’s how Derby treated it in 07/08 and it’s increasingly becoming the norm.

Without sounding embittered or anything, Stoke looked very uninspired there and the whole game reminded me why I don’t really like championship football. A team/manager treading water with a mismatch side in the form of Alex Neil’s Stoke against a manager who’s going to build a ‘project’ to show that looks good to other clubs but they don’t achieve an awful lot. I didn’t really come out of that thinking how good Hull were, I think Stoke were just uninterested and flat. To be honest it makes me think if Hull are sat 4th then what does it say about that league!

I really like Rosenior, I think when we needed him he stood up many times and helped stabilise a very unsteady club. At the time would have wanted him to stay, but i think he would be more of the same to managers we’d had and left us previously. We wouldn’t be any better off and he’d at the very least be courted for another job elsewhere and we’d be talking about the unnecessary distractions!

I think the year has been a learning curve for everyone really.

The club thought they were getting something closer to the finished article with Warne and I think underestimated the difference in managing Rotherham and managing Derby County. Not in terms of expectations or even the thought of Derby being the bigger club, but I think it’s fair to assume that at Rotherham he could get away with a lot and do everything how he wanted to do it. The chairman there essentially allowed him to be Paul Warne unfiltered. At Derby, it’s all a bit more intense and everything you do is going to get scrutinised by thousands of fans every single day. It’s a different culture and it’s still taking time to settle into the culture in Derby for Warne. It’s also difficult for those coming in cold to what Derby is like as place, hence why Mac, Simmo and Steele did well and others struggled. You have to embrace being part of a footballing city/county and understand what the club means to the people here. 

Warne is learning he can’t be as stubborn in his approach and just because he likes 3-5-2 it doesn’t mean that’s going to work and you need to be flexible in your approach. He obviously has to bring his league 1 nous into the club but he needs to apply it to the club rather than going for something that doesn’t exactly suit because he likes how it worked at Rotherham. That stubbornness doesn’t mean he’s out of his depth but I think he has, and has admitted to being, naive on a few things and I hope it means he’s going to be more flexible in his approach. 

Also the fans* are still learning about this league and what is the best approach. We need to accept we aren’t going to steamroll every club in this division and sit top of the league after 7 games. This league will always be a slog and there are always going to be a section that think we are too good for this league (news flash, we aren’t), but we need to be reasonable too and the reaction to games like Saturday was far over the top to what was necessary. I get dropping points in the last minute is frustrating, but I really don’t get the Warne out stuff like this is the worst football you’ve seemingly ever watched and you can see no ways it can improve. Quite a bit of what I read was embarrassing to be honest, those posters trying to be negative as they think it’s their character or fit a bit of attention. It makes the forum a hard read to everyone else, culminating in a thread proposing a ‘Paul Warne free day’ coincidentally after we win a cup game and played quite well. Think I can confidently say no one will propose that in the days after a defeat? Also it’s worth considering quite a few things happened this past week that we’re worthy of discussion but barely mentioned or lost within all the threads about Paul Warne. 

I think there’s a section who think Derby County are better than Paul Warne, or that we haven’t quite got what we thought we’d get with Warne in charge. At times this year it has been bad or disappointing, but what I think is important is that there is progress being made steadily in all directions. I think the groundwork has been laid now, a good preseason, hopefully we are shaking off the niggly injuries and finding a pattern of play.  We need to see the team push on now and start producing some dominant performances.

The club have accepted that this is a project, Warne is hopefully learning from mistakes that have been made and I think the fans need to learn to manage their own expectations. We’ve been here before in the championship when we can’t help losing our collective minds when a result doesn’t go our way and put pressure on the players and manager to the point it all falls apart. Maybe some fans need to accept that this is a project too and see what progress is made by January.

*I’m talking mainly about online fans, I think the general mood is a lot more realistic to what we see on Twitter and the more extreme sides on here.

This forum sometimes 🙄

Think this thread really shows up the over reaction on Saturday. Great work @Curtains!

4 hours ago, Gaspode said:

Thye could have lost the game (and probably should have if VAR hadn't seen a handball that was very marginal) which would have made it worthwhile, but there's also the comedy gold of watching McKenna fall over for no reason to let someone in on goal and Worrall playing the Burnley winger onside and then getting absolutely burnt for the Burnley goal.....

Was kinda worth it to see Cooper’s uncomfortableness at being asked about the ref’s decisions and that being all they could be bothered to show of anything he had to say. Also it was a stark contrast to Kompany who showed a lot of class in his answers. 

Didn’t see a lot of Burnley last season but was really impressed by them last night when Forest looked a bit uninspired all things considered.

I’m trying to write a bit more a long form post in the PW poll thread about pros and cons, but one of my concerns is that I’m not sure he knows what his best midfield is and he’s not made midfield signings to compliment his best player in there. What has made it worse is that Hourihane got made captain over a players vote, although Hourihane has started well this season he can’t drop him without undermining the players decision? So I think we find ourselves with a midfield like last season that is just very similar players who don’t compliment each other very well. Hoping Fornah settles down a bit and ends up being a reliable DM

1 hour ago, jimtastic56 said:

Couldn’t believe how flat the atmosphere was outside and inside the ground. I don’t know if fans can take another 3 years of this , but I am not for Warne leaving. I am pinning my hopes on Sibley but wouldn’t say No to signing Lyle Taylor.

I’m starting to wonder whether reality is starting to hit for a few who have hung around once Clowes bought the club, fwiw this is mostly by those I’ve seen on social media and on here and I don’t think that is a 100% true perspective but I’ve kinda sensed this since the summer.

But what I mean is, the attendances rose around Mel’s era because we all drank the kool aid that we were close to a prem promotion. Those that come every once in a while wanted to experience that moment and got season tickets, it wasn’t happening but we slipped in the covid era before we saw a backlash. Once we could get back into the stadiums a siege mentality hit everyone because of our dire situation and I think those who might have backed out at that point felt ended up staying for that experience. We went to League One, and it felt like another chance to experience that promotion and it didn’t happen again last season. So I sense that there are there now people who are getting a bit fed, won’t accept the football, won’t accept Warne, think he’s out of his depth and whatever else they want to slang his way. For them I think because of his style and where he came from he’s an easy target (and what’s funny about that is he dropped a league to be here, how much can he out of his depth?). 

We are a work in progress, Rosenior scrambled a squad together but Clowes wanted to give his own man a chance to build something. They mostly worked with what they had last season and nearly stumbled over the finish line. The summer has seen Clowes really stamp his authority on his position and Warne has been able to shape the squad more into the squad he wants. We aren’t going to see overnight success and there’s 38 games to play.

There has to be some acceptance to where we are as a league one side, we are no better than that right now and it comes with inconsistencies. Again j have I sense that some fans think we are better than we are and ‘expect’ things the aren’t going to get. We aren’t going to play teams off the park and we aren’t going to win every game. My concerns is that we end up being a bit like Sheff Wed, think we are too good for this league, there will be a section that hate the manager, manager maybe scrapes through the play offs but then you aren’t really good enough for the champ (ignoring the nee manager/chairman stuff obvs). Is it worth being in that limbo, where you may end up spending money you don’t have to just survive in the champ, or just building a squad slowly and realise it’s going to be a slow progress and ignore everything else around us?

i also think we currently have a quite a few short term injuries that is a knock on effect of a tough pre season, im hoping that they are the type of injuries that we will shake off and in the next few weeks we will see the benefits of a tough pre season once that happens. We need to hit our stride soon though or else I think everyone may start to panic, but  I saw my signs of that stride today than I have done in the other 6 games. 

Our support is numbers is brilliant, but i sense a few thousand might end up missing out when Warne’s project starts to click!

(sorry didn’t mean to rant over your comment!)

2 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

You tell forum members to give there head a wobble but then basically say our managers tactics are to rely on one player to have a messi type game. Playing fornah as a 10 is sunday league management and playing a bac 3 when you don't have the squad. People will say that was a back 4 but could easily have been a back 3 with smith rcb. Should have brought NML off way earlier but didn't. Playing elder at wing is criminal or was he a LWB. Could have started bark's on the left and brought him off at 60. 

No I didn’t, I said we over rely on him which I think is down to the players looking for him as an outlet. It sounds like John-Jules would’ve started today which probably would’ve given us another pace option but injury stopped that. Once Barks and Sibley are more match sharp I think we will see a difference on that front. My overall point is that we have picked up little nagging injuries early on, we don’t enough players at this stage who are match fit. The players who do look sharp played well today because they are forming partnerships around those players on the pitch, those that struggled were the ones who don’t seem sharp just yet. 

Well…I thought we were alright for the 7th game of the season? Thought the defensive players were robust and our best players. It’s much like, once you give players time together on the pitch then they form an understanding with those around them? Bradley slaters take note, these things take time. 

We were a bit disjointed in midfield and attacking but thought Smith had his best game in a while and Embleton looked pretty good.

We over rely on NML and when he’s not in the mood then…it falls apart. Barks and Sibley brought something a bit different, feel Sibley especially will be crucial in the coming weeks.

Heres a thing, right now could you name a cohesive 11 who actually look 100% fit and match fit? Think we are picking up a few frustrating injuries after a proper pre season but maybe once we battle through the next couple of weeks we might see ourselves at something like a match sharp matchday squad and can see us going on a run then.

Thought today overall gave us something to build on, mostly strong defensively aside their goal and that shot by the defender and thought we were trying to attack the right way. I’m more postive after today than I was coming out of games before the international break.

Frankly think some of you need to give your head a bit of a wobble.

On 07/09/2023 at 12:17, Andrew3000 said:

I can definitely hear tbe chorus of the derby Rams resonating through the stands. Stirring stuff and I hate folk music! Certainly more interesting and rousing than that bloody poem and SBW. I agree we need to make more of tbe rich heritage which runs deeper than the forced clichés like its in yer dna youth etc.

Sorry had a hectic few days so haven’t had chance to get back to Leo’s. I’ve been thinking that you could rework The Derby Ram and make it work for the stands. For example:

If you go down to Derby, on a Saturday 
You can see 30,000 marching along the pride parkway

and indeed me lad it’s true me lad I’ve never be known to lie, if you’d been down to Derby you’d seen the same as I

For all this about Phillips not playing for City, I think he’s an excellent player for England and that partnership with Rice is excellent. 
 

Think Southgate can be a bit more sparing with pace in the attacking positions. Really like Saka, and Rashford has his moments but really think our best option may be:

                Kane

Grealish  Bellingham  Foden

then bring Saka in when needed and Rashford off the bench. 
 

We need something else defensively too, it feels very unsettled back there. I’d like Tomori but I wonder whether they think he’s a bit too much of a walking yellow card at international level 

Me trying to work out the exact moment my thread about a couple of folk songs got curtailed into ref chat.

Really glad to see it’s gone well @sage, me and the partner were going to come over today but I’ve been offered a gig in Sheffield at the last minute which I need to prep for. Hope you have another great one today, and you do it again soon!

I know some won’t be too bothered about stuff like this, but it’s the international break and nothing else is happening so bugger it. 

For whatever reason, and one I don’t really want to go into now, but I do think we lost a lot of our heritage, community and identity during the Mel era, especially in how the club fits into the city and the surrounding county.

I think a lot has happened from the march onwards to get some of that back but I do think we could go further. It’s one aspect I actually think Notts Forest has done well in, by making its fans feel part of the club and part of its history (sorry I won’t mention them again now).

One thing I’d love us to do is to connect our local folk songs into the club, not necessarily through chants although The Derby Ram and King Of Rome could work pregame at the very least but even if the club used them a bit rather than the generic bleeping blip music it tends to go for. I thinks there’s an opportunity to do something really cool and give us a link to our history and our culture through songs.

Not really expecting this to go anywhere, just hope someone picks it up as an idea and tries to do something with it. Like I say it’s international break, what else is there to discuss?

FWIW, I think we won’t see the best of our defenders until we get a settled midfield in front. Warne has his players in now and needs to figure out what his best eleven is in the international break. I don’t think we have enough partnerships that have been formed in our backline either where players know their jobs. When you have 2-5 new players playing together it naturally takes time for them to grasp their roles.

Again, Davies struggled when he came under Rowett in the first couple of months. Some players come in and everything clicks, some it takes a little time. I think after the international break we will see a much different Sonny Bradley.

‘Yeah I’m sure we can squeeze you into the budget’

11 hours ago, JfR said:

Bit rude of them to turn on him after all he's done for them in the past...

I have no issue with a club feeling aggrieved, even though I think it was a red and a pen. I do have an issue with someone at Forest needing to get this out in the media and Percy essentially allowing himself to be a journalistic mouthpiece for the club.

It’s putting pressure on refs for their upcoming fixtures isn’t it? Percy should know better.

In my best ‘Cocu being picked up on the RamsTV mics during the covid season’ impression

’GO ON WAGGY’

7 minutes ago, Srg said:

Wing back should be a long way second. When you've got Rooney and Smith who could play right, Forsyth and Elder to play left. Why would we want another just cover for 2 months?

I think he may look at a versatile pacey defensive player, who’s going to fill defensive gaps (although if Cashin goes we might need an actual centre back), that atleast make sense to me in what we might need now. The 4th, which I just posted above which may be a stretch is Collins goes out and we bring Smith from Wednesday in but it’s probably less of a priority to a pacey defender.