TuffLuff

@Macintosh’s post in the Waggy thread pointed this out but Ryan Conways book about the Cocu-Rooney years has a release date and is available for pre order: 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pride-Before-Fall-Play-Off-Extinction/dp/1801505039

Be interesting to see if anything new comes from it and I hope it does well for Ryan.

Just to point out one tiny thing, but it was largely Waghorn that helped us see the best of Sibley in those first few games when Sibley looked like the next big thing. At the moment, I’m not sure how it would work but Waghorn might be the right player we need to hold up the ball, move into a space and make room for someone like Sibley to get a shot in. Could be something to keep an eye on going forward…

4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Did you read the tweet (post #1 in this thread)?

In fairness, “#dcfc”?

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Well yes, or we could try creating chances? 

Well I do think you raise a good point that actually I’m not sure our midfield is strong enough (again, good footballers but I’m not sure they have a winning mentality) but that’s maybe a debate for another day.

I’m just not sure, with the market as it currently is, that we can get better and it’s probably better to have him through the door that not to. The market is slow in the leagues above us, the lower prem sides aren’t really bringing in the players they want to get, so aren’t getting players out on loan or on transfers, which means the championship sides aren’t doing their business which then effects us. So you gamble and wait for it to get to the last day of the window or do you get a couple of players on deals that will see us through to Jan? I’ve thought for a while that we are waiting to see if Lapado comes available at Ipswich (no itk, that’s just seemed to me the transfer that would make sense), if that’s the case then we may need to wait until January before Ipswich are willing to budge. Or could be the same with Smith or Goddard. It’s all hypothetical but would you be better with Waghorn and Sharp to tide us over until Jan or try and bring in someone to replace what you want Lapado/Smith/Goddard etc to come in and do

Got to say I respectfully disagree with the ‘I don’t want Sharp here’ talk and think it’s a bit daft. Yesterday was a reminder of what I think some of our problem was last year in that we really lack winners in our current side. Lots of good footballers, lots of nice players, but not many who you’d say have a real winning mentality. I do think Bradley and Nelson have a bit of that so think we are ok at the back but we lack a winner in more attacking areas and Sharp would tick that box for me no matter of his age. Also the market hasn’t moved in a way that has made players like Godden, Lapado and seemingly Smith available at this time. Derby are also in a tight market as they need 25-30 year olds, willing to play in league one but can also play consistently in front if big crowds. That isn’t easy.

We need someone who can get something out of nothing, turn draws into wins etc and I think I’d rather have Sharp here than anywhere else in this league.

I did spot on the video from the Q and A night with Warne/Barker there was some close up shots of Madri that looked a bit liked ‘marketing’ shots so no surprise that something has happened.

Anything is better than what we’ve had in fairness so I’m pretty happy. Would love a bit of space made for a local brewery to have a Derby County beer available on the concourses but this is atleast a positive step in the right direction.

We have whinged about the concourses for years, so atleast we are trying something 

26 minutes ago, angieram said:

And I'm guessing they weren't all "20 goal forwards" when they signed? 

As we saw last season, playing to a striker's strengths create the conditions that make the difference. 

My concern isn't that we haven't got a 20 goal forward, but that we haven't got enough potential 20 goal forwards yet. I think we're two bodies short up there to provide depth over a long season. 

I think Warne knows that too, hence his comments about it last night.

I think it was interesting what he said about missing out on strikers to other league 1 clubs and that if a player is scoring at one club doesn’t automatically mean he will do the same at Derby County.

Those that thought we should have pushed more for an Alfie May or Sam Smith should probably heed the lesson we should have learnt from Jack Marriott and the impact he had in home games. That’s not to say he didn’t score important goals away from home like at Norwich or Leeds, but you can’t say he did it consistently over a season, especially at Pride Park. You need players who can play week in week out in front of 25,000-30,000 people.

Also! It’s just occurred to me, Derby so far aren’t currently saying he’s not for sale…we all love Bird but Smith and Hourihane have so far been playing in his preferred position and Bird has played a role that would suit Sibley in pre season.

Not saying im right or wrong, gonna be interesting what Warne says tonight tbh.

Two things

1) never outright trust a report from another local newspaper! I take it as Hull are frustrated at a lack of progress and are trying to force Derby’s hand here.

2) In a bit if good news, it might show the market is beginning to move if a champ team who had previously expressed interest are now coming forward with a bid. Suggests movement in the market and once deals start getting done in the champ then it wouldn’t surprise me if a couple of Warne’s targets start being made available by their clubs. 

FWIW I think the ‘never go back’ argument is a bit naff, with respect to the thread and original point it was making. Even if you look at our recent history our most successful moves for players over 30 is more about ‘do they have a point to prove?’

Kazim-Richards is the most glaring example, many didn’t even like he was training with us, but he saw he had an opportunity at Derby and took it with both hands. Maybe it’s worth looking at players that had seasons in the wild wilderness for a season or two. People would say Martin was passed it but came to be an important part of Cocu’s set up in his last season, Davies another who looked to be playing a bit part at most for the rest of his career and was something of a forgetten man after injuries, but ended up playing the whole season for Rooney and a class act. 

Point is, how much does it matter that they’ve been somewhere before? Surely it’s more important that a player has a motivation to play for your club and is willing to take the opportunity given, be it to prove a point to the fans, themselves, manager, whatever. Waghorn has a point to prove at Derby to me, had a good first season under Lampard and really lost his way under Cocu and didn’t find it under Rooney. After a couple of years with his career petering out. he’s got an opportunity to make something out of his last leg at the club closest to where he’s settled in the area and didn’t get the send off he’d have hoped for. If he was coming to continue the role he had at Coventry and Huddersfield then I’d say no, but if he thinks he can get into the side and push everyone around him then I’m all for it.

I think at this stage it’s worth pointing out how slow the market is over the last week or so. Lower Prem clubs/top champ clubs are seemingly in a bit of mess struggling to get deals done, which is having a knock on effect because those clubs won’t let players go until their targets are in.

Forest are a prime example in that they spent a stupid amount of money last season which they didn’t need to, currently really having to negotiate their transfers to abide by FFP and get players out other clubs don’t want. They inflated the costs last year and because they can’t spend it now and still chasing targets it’s holding everything up. 
 

Well…it’s worth getting a dig in when you can! But you can look at Leeds, Everton, Wolves, Sheffield United and a load of others that are all struggling to make the moves needed with one/two weeks to go.

I could be critical of him last season, but I really like NML playing a ‘free’ role 

Been pondering this for a while, I’m starting from scratch as it’s well over a decade since I was last involved with a club, but could do with some advice with what’s the best way to go on getting started? The FA do an introduction course which seems the obvious route but not sure whether it’s worth it over making the effort to find a club local and to do some volunteering with or even getting in touch with my local FA.

Basically is the course worth it or are you better getting some experience first?

1 hour ago, TuffLuff said:

Had a little smile to myself this morning about seeing Percy’s article this morning about Cooper pulling off another miracle this season after spending £200 million last season. Was going to post it but decided it wasn’t worthwhile.

This came up a bit later though on my feed which I thought was somewhat interesting. When you think of it neither come across in the best light

 

another reply below from the other guy but losing so don’t think it’ll embed in time but the quote is :

 

“I see the paranoia of the club from years ago is still around then.

But everyone knows how you operate in the industry.

@GazBraz is well within his rights to sue for libellous but he is too classy for that so you can keep your little stoogy relationship with people at #nffc”

 

Ok for me this is slightly more interesting than I thought it was but appreciate it won’t be for everyone. So there are Forest fans on Twitter* who are suggesting that Percy is being a mouthpiece for the ownership (no real surprise there) and the article is putting a positive spin on a few concerning bits of news (I don’t know the insides and out of forest business so I’m largely ignoring it for now) l. The bit that grabbed my interest is that Percy’s article throws the former Academy director Gary Brazil under the bus, in a rather unnecessary move to prop up the recently appointed directors from Rangers who don’t have the best reputations north of the border. It’s worth pointing out that Brazil had long term involvement with Forests academy and whilst I don’t agree with how it was managed personally, the money it generated probably stopped Forest getting in serious trouble for a few seasons.

In short this is seen as the ownership being disrespectful to one of its few long standing employees who did a lot of good for their club. For now, it’s interesting I think, both in Percy’s role and reputation and where fan and ownership relations currently are. It’ll most likely blow over for now but don’t be surprised if this becomes something to note back to later on.

*as we know Twitter is Twitter (or X) and you have to take it all with a pinch of salt, but I think like with our saga, that doesn’t mean you should ignore it.

Had a little smile to myself this morning about seeing Percy’s article this morning about Cooper pulling off another miracle this season after spending £200 million last season. Was going to post it but decided it wasn’t worthwhile.

This came up a bit later though on my feed which I thought was somewhat interesting. When you think of it neither come across in the best light

another reply below from the other guy but losing so don’t think it’ll embed in time but the quote is :

“I see the paranoia of the club from years ago is still around then.

But everyone knows how you operate in the industry.

@GazBraz is well within his rights to sue for libellous but he is too classy for that so you can keep your little stoogy relationship with people at #nffc”

I think a quote that has to be remembered is Warne saying Ipswich we’re 12-18 months ahead of us in terms of planning where we want to be. 

My expectation is that if we can get a couple more additions without really spending (and presumably a couple out), then I think we will hold on until January when Warne will make a play for Lapado once its clear how much game time he’s going to get at Ipswich. As Warne has said previously that January is a difficult window and you are probably better using any money at that point rather than now. 

For example, if we have 500k to spend are we better doing it cold now or saving it for when we might need a fresh face or two in January to give us a different option.

I think in the past when we do behind closed doors we still get a team sheet after the event and a slightly detailed match report. My guess is both sides were taking a look at players and don’t want it getting out.

For example, if we are looking at strikers and someone’s scored it’s probably best that we keep silent over it

7 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

Nope. Vydra’s problem was the “Derby Way” virus. His best position was playing off the centre forward, but Vydra was either on the bench, played as the bug target man 🙄 or out on the wing.

I reckon he would have been lethal playing off Chris Martin but IIRC he was never given the chance. He only came good when we played to his strengths. 23 seconds in against the Trees springs to mind!

They played together once in the Rowett season for 45 mins and Rowett hauled Martin off. From what I  remember they got in each others space a lot, which wasn’t uncommon for Vydra as it happened with Lawrence a lot too. Vydra was a quality footballer but I felt he needed everything his own way or else you wouldn’t get any real interest from him. When he got the partnership with Nugent, he was happy because Nuge was happy to do the donkey work for 70 minutes or until he ran out of legs. That partnership worked until teams got wise to it, by then Martin was out on loan and Winnall was out for the season so we got Jerome that worked, until it didn’t. Thus was Rowett’s reign, it was short term solutions to a long term problem. 

Can I nominate Tom Ince? Had his games, certainly a few memorable moments and had all the abiiity you’d ever want but I’ve never seen a more obvious example of someone hiding behind opposition players, shirking out of challenges and hiding from responsibilities. When he was interested, he was grand but i felt he could noticeably lose interest. Vydra was another one and given too much leeway by Rowett until he wasn’t.

Bugger it I’ll stick up for Barton, was passed it when he came and had some awful moments (did he score two og’s against Grimsby or something?) but I never felt like he didn’t care, also he was captain and had a similar rep round the club as Rob Lee (first to be at training and last ones to leave I seem to think). I think it was more his confidence was shot to pieces and he wasn’t the only one in that first season after prem relegation

Bennett was in the best run of form he’d had at Derby and had played a pivotal role throughout that season, he was also involved in quite a few important goals. To be honest without the role he’d played at leeds I doubt we’d have even been in that final. I presume the plan was to start Bennett, stay in the game and fire the defence before bringing Marriott on as an impact but it didn’t go to plan for obvious reasons. 

Maybe Marriott could have started but I do think we needed Bennett in the side at that time

Just putting it out there, but do love it’s his Ukrainian Rams hat 

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Is this you @Big Trav 😄

 

That reluctantthicko account came up a few days on the admin thread with spoofs and some Nixon mickey taking I seem to remember?

I didn’t fall for it once, honest 👀

Think it’s worth pointing out that we are seemingly moving away from a formation that is 1 striker to playing with 2, which means we need more bodies up there then we’ve been used to for two decades now! It’s moving away from strikers being part of the build up play through the middle and moving towards getting the ball into the box from out wide. You need players who are positionally smart and do their work inside the box.

Im ok with it, still room for two more as well!

I’ll say the same thing I said last time Chris Martin, or as I like to think of him The Best Striker We Had In a Generation. Looking back it felt like we were having the same debates every time and whether it was the end of the season or when he was returning from loans or his main return under Cocu. The thing is, every time Chris Martin came back into the team, he worked hard scored goals and contributed. I have no doubt he’d come and prove a lot of people on here wrong again. It won’t happen because he’s not a Warne player and that’s fine, but the madness here is that those debates were like Norwich fans debating the merits of Pukki or Fulham fans with Mitrovic.

There is an interesting discussion to have on Martin’s time at Derby, he was the best striker we had and there were highs and lows, but I’ve longed got past the idea that a good sensible discussion will ever happen on here. There is fault on both sides of the debate, but there is a certain incredulous feeling that those that like him were having to defend our best striker in the first place!

No i don’t think he will be coming, but he deserves more respect than he gets on here.