ilkleyram

I can’t. He gave himself time to think about the decision - which is good - by going over to the lino.  In itself that suggests he didn’t have a clear view and therefore couldn’t be certain that Joe had handled the ball and therefore he couldn’t send him off (or give a foul).
The lino had the better angle of sight. If he saw a handball (which clearly he could not have done) then he could have said so when they conferred. What he should have said to the ref was either that he didn’t see it and was looking elsewhere (not unreasonable) or that he saw it clearly and no handball. If he said that he saw it hit Joe’s arm then he was wrong.
As @angieram says, they both guessed. Wrongly. We may still have lost but we also may have won or drawn. Our chances of either of the latter two options were significantly reduced by his decision.
One other minor point. If you look how the ball bounces off and away from Joe it’s clear that it hits a solid part of his body. If it had hit his hand it would more than likely have bounced down given the angle of his arm. The ref should have reflected on that in his decision making - they were fresh out of half time, not tired and should have been well attuned to the game so had no excuse. 

Oh, I agree. These things happen when humans are involved.
But that doesn’t mean that we should shrug our shoulders (as per your emoji) and excuse a guy (who has previous with us) who not only got this major decision wrong but also 3 others, each of which would/could have changed the scoreline in our favour
And, it might have looked like handball from 100 yards away up the other end of the pitch but he was 10 yards away at most, albeit with a slightly obscured view; the lino was 20 yards away with no obscured view, and the laws say they can only give the freekick and send Joe off if they saw what happened, and they didn’t.  
If they saw the incident they saw it wasn’t handball; if they didn’t see it they can’t give it. And the whole point of training referees is to get them to get the big decisions in a game correct.

I can’t. He gave himself time to think about the decision - which is good - by going over to the lino.  In itself that suggests he didn’t have a clear view and therefore couldn’t be certain that Joe had handled the ball and therefore he couldn’t send him off (or give a foul).
The lino had the better angle of sight. If he saw a handball (which clearly he could not have done) then he could have said so when they conferred. What he should have said to the ref was either that he didn’t see it and was looking elsewhere (not unreasonable) or that he saw it clearly and no handball. If he said that he saw it hit Joe’s arm then he was wrong.
As @angieram says, they both guessed. Wrongly. We may still have lost but we also may have won or drawn. Our chances of either of the latter two options were significantly reduced by his decision.
One other minor point. If you look how the ball bounces off and away from Joe it’s clear that it hits a solid part of his body. If it had hit his hand it would more than likely have bounced down given the angle of his arm. The ref should have reflected on that in his decision making - they were fresh out of half time, not tired and should have been well attuned to the game so had no excuse. 

I can’t. He gave himself time to think about the decision - which is good - by going over to the lino.  In itself that suggests he didn’t have a clear view and therefore couldn’t be certain that Joe had handled the ball and therefore he couldn’t send him off (or give a foul).
The lino had the better angle of sight. If he saw a handball (which clearly he could not have done) then he could have said so when they conferred. What he should have said to the ref was either that he didn’t see it and was looking elsewhere (not unreasonable) or that he saw it clearly and no handball. If he said that he saw it hit Joe’s arm then he was wrong.
As @angieram says, they both guessed. Wrongly. We may still have lost but we also may have won or drawn. Our chances of either of the latter two options were significantly reduced by his decision.
One other minor point. If you look how the ball bounces off and away from Joe it’s clear that it hits a solid part of his body. If it had hit his hand it would more than likely have bounced down given the angle of his arm. The ref should have reflected on that in his decision making - they were fresh out of half time, not tired and should have been well attuned to the game so had no excuse. 

Charlie George - by a long way the best footballer I’ve seen in our shirt. Vision, pace, skill and an attitude. Could pass like few others I’ve ever seen including the modern era.
Can’t remember where we were going - we’d started early - but 9 of us in the back of a works transit with no seats. There were even more coming back. Broken down train with no heating coming back from Brighton midweek comes a close second 
Any time the ref falls over. Always makes me laugh.
Accrington Stanley - proper ground, warm welcome before, during and after, proper fans with plenty of access to other clubs higher up but stick with their local team
The obvious ones are the trophies - 2nd division, 1st division, Texaco,Charity Shield - but winning v Rotherham to go up was fantastic, so was Stuart Webb saving us even though it lead to Maxwell (we didn’t know what was to come). Clowes taking over just about tops it though. I cried when I heard the news, rang my son, we both cried - relief and pure joy in equal measure. The reflected pride comes in one of our own having the resources and the courage to take us on at our lowest moment.
 

The same ex pros who, as "pundits" and "co-commentators" explain away all the "5hithousery" we all dislike as being "part of the game". Timewasting is against the Laws of the game. Feigning injury too. Preventing the quick taking of a throw or free kick by picking the ball up and wandering off with it or standing 5cm from the ball so it can't be kicked when the Laws state they should retire 10 yards IMMEDIATELY. The all in wrestling in the box as well. All this crap is against the Laws of the game. Ex pros still think it's part of it. It all started in South America and Southern Europe and it crept into the game worldwide for one reason only. Refs let them get away with it. Give free kicks, penalties, cards. Everything the Laws give them the power to do. It'll stop, but only if refs are consistent.
Of course, all of this is in the revised instructions given to refs this season. Some are complying, some aren't, others do it inconsistently. Almost all of those new instructions are not new Laws. They have all been in the book for decades. Refs just haven't applied them. They need to start doing so. 

Charlie George - by a long way the best footballer I’ve seen in our shirt. Vision, pace, skill and an attitude. Could pass like few others I’ve ever seen including the modern era.
Can’t remember where we were going - we’d started early - but 9 of us in the back of a works transit with no seats. There were even more coming back. Broken down train with no heating coming back from Brighton midweek comes a close second 
Any time the ref falls over. Always makes me laugh.
Accrington Stanley - proper ground, warm welcome before, during and after, proper fans with plenty of access to other clubs higher up but stick with their local team
The obvious ones are the trophies - 2nd division, 1st division, Texaco,Charity Shield - but winning v Rotherham to go up was fantastic, so was Stuart Webb saving us even though it lead to Maxwell (we didn’t know what was to come). Clowes taking over just about tops it though. I cried when I heard the news, rang my son, we both cried - relief and pure joy in equal measure. The reflected pride comes in one of our own having the resources and the courage to take us on at our lowest moment.
 

The bright note, and I really hesitate to use that expression with such news, is that our medical team and physios are used to dealing with this injury.  Hopefully that will help Jake.  And in the darker moments not only will he have Fozzy but he'll also have Fozzy's example - you can get back to full fitness and the first team after an ACL

The bright note, and I really hesitate to use that expression with such news, is that our medical team and physios are used to dealing with this injury.  Hopefully that will help Jake.  And in the darker moments not only will he have Fozzy but he'll also have Fozzy's example - you can get back to full fitness and the first team after an ACL

From that view the only thing you could say was that the ref thought it might have hit Joe’s left arm. His right is miles away. And his left arm was slightly obscured from his view. The lino however has no such excuse even though he was 20 yards away he was still front on to the incident so he must have had a clear view.  Unless he was looking elsewhere.
If neither of them clearly saw a handball and guessed then they shouldn’t be giving it, handball or not. And clearly it was not.
Big decision to get wrong. Very poor refereeing never mind the three other major decisions he got wrong.

From that view the only thing you could say was that the ref thought it might have hit Joe’s left arm. His right is miles away. And his left arm was slightly obscured from his view. The lino however has no such excuse even though he was 20 yards away he was still front on to the incident so he must have had a clear view.  Unless he was looking elsewhere.
If neither of them clearly saw a handball and guessed then they shouldn’t be giving it, handball or not. And clearly it was not.
Big decision to get wrong. Very poor refereeing never mind the three other major decisions he got wrong.

Charlie George - by a long way the best footballer I’ve seen in our shirt. Vision, pace, skill and an attitude. Could pass like few others I’ve ever seen including the modern era.
Can’t remember where we were going - we’d started early - but 9 of us in the back of a works transit with no seats. There were even more coming back. Broken down train with no heating coming back from Brighton midweek comes a close second 
Any time the ref falls over. Always makes me laugh.
Accrington Stanley - proper ground, warm welcome before, during and after, proper fans with plenty of access to other clubs higher up but stick with their local team
The obvious ones are the trophies - 2nd division, 1st division, Texaco,Charity Shield - but winning v Rotherham to go up was fantastic, so was Stuart Webb saving us even though it lead to Maxwell (we didn’t know what was to come). Clowes taking over just about tops it though. I cried when I heard the news, rang my son, we both cried - relief and pure joy in equal measure. The reflected pride comes in one of our own having the resources and the courage to take us on at our lowest moment.
 

Charlie George - by a long way the best footballer I’ve seen in our shirt. Vision, pace, skill and an attitude. Could pass like few others I’ve ever seen including the modern era.
Can’t remember where we were going - we’d started early - but 9 of us in the back of a works transit with no seats. There were even more coming back. Broken down train with no heating coming back from Brighton midweek comes a close second 
Any time the ref falls over. Always makes me laugh.
Accrington Stanley - proper ground, warm welcome before, during and after, proper fans with plenty of access to other clubs higher up but stick with their local team
The obvious ones are the trophies - 2nd division, 1st division, Texaco,Charity Shield - but winning v Rotherham to go up was fantastic, so was Stuart Webb saving us even though it lead to Maxwell (we didn’t know what was to come). Clowes taking over just about tops it though. I cried when I heard the news, rang my son, we both cried - relief and pure joy in equal measure. The reflected pride comes in one of our own having the resources and the courage to take us on at our lowest moment.
 

Charlie George - by a long way the best footballer I’ve seen in our shirt. Vision, pace, skill and an attitude. Could pass like few others I’ve ever seen including the modern era.
Can’t remember where we were going - we’d started early - but 9 of us in the back of a works transit with no seats. There were even more coming back. Broken down train with no heating coming back from Brighton midweek comes a close second 
Any time the ref falls over. Always makes me laugh.
Accrington Stanley - proper ground, warm welcome before, during and after, proper fans with plenty of access to other clubs higher up but stick with their local team
The obvious ones are the trophies - 2nd division, 1st division, Texaco,Charity Shield - but winning v Rotherham to go up was fantastic, so was Stuart Webb saving us even though it lead to Maxwell (we didn’t know what was to come). Clowes taking over just about tops it though. I cried when I heard the news, rang my son, we both cried - relief and pure joy in equal measure. The reflected pride comes in one of our own having the resources and the courage to take us on at our lowest moment.
 

Charlie George - by a long way the best footballer I’ve seen in our shirt. Vision, pace, skill and an attitude. Could pass like few others I’ve ever seen including the modern era.
Can’t remember where we were going - we’d started early - but 9 of us in the back of a works transit with no seats. There were even more coming back. Broken down train with no heating coming back from Brighton midweek comes a close second 
Any time the ref falls over. Always makes me laugh.
Accrington Stanley - proper ground, warm welcome before, during and after, proper fans with plenty of access to other clubs higher up but stick with their local team
The obvious ones are the trophies - 2nd division, 1st division, Texaco,Charity Shield - but winning v Rotherham to go up was fantastic, so was Stuart Webb saving us even though it lead to Maxwell (we didn’t know what was to come). Clowes taking over just about tops it though. I cried when I heard the news, rang my son, we both cried - relief and pure joy in equal measure. The reflected pride comes in one of our own having the resources and the courage to take us on at our lowest moment.
 

So that’s where she went 

And there’s the rub , we both enjoy different approaches to the game ,
I always had in mind that last season was not the benchmark for me though there were games under warne I really enjoyed , for me we are 6 games and 1 window ( I don’t count last Jan) into figuring whether warne can bring success and a style I’m happy to drive the 6 hour round trip to watch,
im certainly never a happy clapper and will call for a managers head if I feel strongly that that’s what’s needed , im not there yet ,, some are and some were before he even got his feet under the table ,
I love the emotion of football , the rollercoaster emotions of being in the ground watching derby live and as such go more with my gut , I have zero interest in possession stats , xg states , ppdf , rgk, mmpd ect ect ect , it’s just so bloody sterile and too much of life is heading down that road these days , nope I’m just gonna turn up at games , sing , shout , jump about a bit stick my head in my hands at times and just be the same old derby fanatic I ever was 🤷🏻‍♂️, sorry if that doesn’t fit with those who want to tell me what I should be looking for or how I should enjoy my football to be or look like but it ain’t changing any time soon folks

It’s human nature. On every single transfer deadline day there are last minute deals. And it’s simply because everyone wants the best possible deal for their club or for their player ( if they’re an agent). And negotiations will always happen up to the limit whatever the deadline is. 
Like so much else in football it’s a system created for TV under the auspices of protecting clubs. And it’s fake. I’d rather we went back to the old system of limited transfers during the last few months of the season but otherwise an open process. Sky will never allow it. 
As for cash he’ll know exactly where he’s going in January or next summer. But he’ll also know his bank balance will be higher. No problem with that so long as he performs for the next four months. 
 

Why do you reach that conclusion?  
@Milleniumram was told on Thursday night. Let’s presume that was true.  Maybe Cash was told that on Thursday.
Why could the situation not have changed on Friday. Perhaps Brighton upped their offer. Maybe Cash and PW agreed that he hang around in Derby whilst the negotiations continued. Perhaps him hanging around in Starbucks was because he’d set off for Bolton but got a call to say it might be on again.
perhaps everyone is being honest - Derby with the player, the player with Derby and PW in telling us what happened on the Friday and why he wasn’t in the starting 11.

The main argument for the introduction of VAR was to get more decisions right, reduce the controversy and thereby support referees and the importance of match officials.
It feels, and I don't watch that much EPL football nowadays, as if there are plenty of examples where decisions have been properly changed and maybe that's to the overall good of the game.  But every decision changed, by definition, means that the ref either got the original one wrong or missed it completely, so it reinforces the fallibility of referees and constantly questions their competence.  
It also appears to have done nothing to decrease controversy around decisions.  At times there appears to be more controversy mainly because there's very little in football that's fact - ball over the line for example - rather than opinion, and the lawmakers just make it worse with all the 'unnatural position' nonsense which turns a relatively simple question - 'was it deliberate handball or not, in the opinion of the referee' - into a discussion that would test the capabilities of United Nation peace negotiators.
In the end they're all human beings - fallible, frail and some are better than others - and football is routinely a matter of opinion.  The misplaced drive in football, and life generally, for perfection just leads to disappointment.

Perhaps he needs his eyes testing. Now where’s a Soloptical when you need one? 

Perhaps he needs his eyes testing. Now where’s a Soloptical when you need one? 

I see that the usual culprits from the pfa and epl are moaning on. What none of them seem to clock is that if the players didn’t constantly kick the ball away (Korey…), or go down as if shot after being breathed on or kick off quickly after a goal is scored or didn’t delay free kicks, throw ins or goal kicks then there wouldn’t be any time added on.
Trouble is that it’s ingrained behaviour now and referees have a history of enforcing new rules for a couple of weeks and then forgetting that the rules are in place, just to make their lives easier. It’ll be interesting to see how it goes. 

I see that the usual culprits from the pfa and epl are moaning on. What none of them seem to clock is that if the players didn’t constantly kick the ball away (Korey…), or go down as if shot after being breathed on or kick off quickly after a goal is scored or didn’t delay free kicks, throw ins or goal kicks then there wouldn’t be any time added on.
Trouble is that it’s ingrained behaviour now and referees have a history of enforcing new rules for a couple of weeks and then forgetting that the rules are in place, just to make their lives easier. It’ll be interesting to see how it goes. 

I see that the usual culprits from the pfa and epl are moaning on. What none of them seem to clock is that if the players didn’t constantly kick the ball away (Korey…), or go down as if shot after being breathed on or kick off quickly after a goal is scored or didn’t delay free kicks, throw ins or goal kicks then there wouldn’t be any time added on.
Trouble is that it’s ingrained behaviour now and referees have a history of enforcing new rules for a couple of weeks and then forgetting that the rules are in place, just to make their lives easier. It’ll be interesting to see how it goes.