CBT ??!!

[DavesaRam]

12 hours ago, CapeTownRams said:

Not helped by the fact that when he looked good and we bought him he was playing on the left wing for Charlton.

Now, inexplicably PW only plays him on the right which just doesn’t play to the strengths of a player who loves to cut onside and shoot with his right foot..::

Its the Derby way! I’m surprised we haven’t tried Osborne at number 9 yet.

[jono]

2 hours ago, therealhantsram said:

 

Not sure we can pin this on the recruitment team. If they arrived in November they likely were not involved, or only marginally. CBT would have been scouted well before.

PW transfers have indeed been poor. As shown by almost all our best players last season being signed by previous managers.

My view is that this new recruitment team are here to fix that scouting weakness. This Summer we will see what they are made of. 

Meanwhile the likes of CBT and Fornah are probably a write off.

 

That’s pure farce … transfers poor ? When we were under a zillion restrictions and making peace with the EFL. ? And since then we have started to make real signings and they all look pretty healthy. It’s true CBT has been underwhelming but his injury niggles haven’t helped and he hasn’t actually played that much football for us. There is time. It is clear that he isn’t a genius but there is some pace and power there, so let’s just wait and see. As to Fornah .. same story. I don’t think he’s had much chance. Injuries, Warne choosing Hourihan as an automatic start and then Ebou arriving with such impact (that wasn’t a bad signing was it ! ) Fornah is tidy, has good control, I am sure he will contribute. 

[Simmo’s left foot]

Give the poor bloke a chance!.He arrived injured and has had to setttle in. Hes had a full pre season and hopefully we will see him shine. Unless everybody gets on his back of course...

[May Contain Nuts]

51 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

If we can get him playing like he did at Pompey more often than not, he could be a real asset. Big if mind.

Which was like what, exactly?

He had a couple of strong, albeit unchallenged, runs on the ball into space opening up in front of him. One of the runs ended in a relatively simple pass into an unmarked Joe Ward for the goal, the other a poor shot from distance. In fairness a lot better players c*** up that simple pass. Aside from that I remember one instance of him succesfully 'tussling' for the ball with a defender and sticking his leg out to win a layoff.

He was 'OK' against Portsmouth but hardly a revelation, but it seems as soon as a player starts to receive negative attention we have to pretend that any positive contrbution they made was five times better than it actually was.

Minutes played 85'
Goals 0
Assists 1
Touches 26
Accurate passes 7/10 (70%)
Key passes 2
Crosses (acc.) 1 (0)
Long balls (acc.) 1 (1)
Big chances created 1
Shots on target 0
Shots off target 2
Shots blocked 0
Dribble attempts (succ.) 6 (2)
Ground duels (won) 7 (3)
Aerial duels (won) 0 (0)
Possession lost 11
Fouls 0
Was fouled 1
Clearances 1
Blocked shots 0
Interceptions 0
Total tackles 0
Dribbled past 0

 

Edited August 1 by May Contain Nuts

[Rich3478]

14 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

Which was like what, exactly?

He had a couple of strong, albeit unchallenged, runs on the ball into space opening up in front of him. One of the runs ended in a relatively simple pass into an unmarked Joe Ward for the goal, the other a poor shot from distance. In fairness a lot better players c*** up that simple pass. Aside from that I remember one instance of him succesfully 'tussling' for the ball with a defender and sticking his leg out to win a layoff.

He was 'OK' against Portsmouth but hardly a revelation, but it seems as soon as a player starts to receive negative attention we have to pretend that any positive contrbution they made was five times better than it actually was.

Minutes played 85'
Goals 0
Assists 1
Touches 26
Accurate passes 7/10 (70%)
Key passes 2
Crosses (acc.) 1 (0)
Long balls (acc.) 1 (1)
Big chances created 1
Shots on target 0
Shots off target 2
Shots blocked 0
Dribble attempts (succ.) 6 (2)
Ground duels (won) 7 (3)
Aerial duels (won) 0 (0)
Possession lost 11
Fouls 0
Was fouled 1
Clearances 1
Blocked shots 0
Interceptions 0
Total tackles 0
Dribbled past 0

 

Yeah I agree with your point here, think we’re all just really hoping it works out. Pompey was a lot more positive than other performances. But like you say, still not a revelation.

Not sure I can see him starting much this season, will be interesting.

[jono]

4 hours ago, May Contain Nuts said:

Which was like what, exactly?

He had a couple of strong, albeit unchallenged, runs on the ball into space opening up in front of him. One of the runs ended in a relatively simple pass into an unmarked Joe Ward for the goal, the other a poor shot from distance. In fairness a lot better players c*** up that simple pass. Aside from that I remember one instance of him succesfully 'tussling' for the ball with a defender and sticking his leg out to win a layoff.

He was 'OK' against Portsmouth but hardly a revelation, but it seems as soon as a player starts to receive negative attention we have to pretend that any positive contrbution they made was five times better than it actually was.

Minutes played 85'
Goals 0
Assists 1
Touches 26
Accurate passes 7/10 (70%)
Key passes 2
Crosses (acc.) 1 (0)
Long balls (acc.) 1 (1)
Big chances created 1
Shots on target 0
Shots off target 2
Shots blocked 0
Dribble attempts (succ.) 6 (2)
Ground duels (won) 7 (3)
Aerial duels (won) 0 (0)
Possession lost 11
Fouls 0
Was fouled 1
Clearances 1
Blocked shots 0
Interceptions 0
Total tackles 0
Dribbled past 0

 

It’s all very well playing AI with stats but how many full games has he had ? How many full games when fully fit ? How many consecutive games when fully fit ? Your sample size is small and skewed. I don’t think he’s a genius, if he was, all that would be secondary but the lack of patience and the desire to finger point is really dumb. Collins isn’t a “great” striker but some quarters were pouring scorn at him , laughing at Warne when he picked him, sneering, calling him a donkey. .. hey he didn’t do too badly in spite of the brickbats. No one wants to deny failings or weaknesses but this “let’s have a whipping boy” makes me sick to the stomach.

[Ambitious]

It’s been difficult to really assess him because his minutes have been so disrupted. 

He’s obviously got potential because of how he performed at Charlton, but perhaps being the first signing we made for money after a long period went against him. He signed up injured and never really got himself right, now he’s injured again. 

We probably view CBT no differently to how Adams was viewed by Cardiff fans. It’s always difficult for players that get injured soon after joining a club, so perhaps we should give him time and view him as a project to develop. My concern is that we probably are relying on him a bit too much for this season. 

[May Contain Nuts]

2 hours ago, jono said:

It’s all very well playing AI with stats but how many full games has he had ? How many full games when fully fit ? How many consecutive games when fully fit ? Your sample size is small and skewed. I don’t think he’s a genius, if he was, all that would be secondary but the lack of patience and the desire to finger point is really dumb. Collins isn’t a “great” striker but some quarters were pouring scorn at him , laughing at Warne when he picked him, sneering, calling him a donkey. .. hey he didn’t do too badly in spite of the brickbats. No one wants to deny failings or weaknesses but this “let’s have a whipping boy” makes me sick to the stomach.

Playing AI? Skewed sample?

The post is about my personal (fully human!) recollection of his performance against Portsmouth, and I've used his stats from the game to check how accurate that recollection is. Pretty much agreed as the most acceptable and unbiased use of stats by most on the forum.

Obviously it's a small sample size - I'm looking at one game in isolation, that's kind of the point. It's exactly what ensures that the data isn't skewed!

It was the closest he's been in his time here to being fully fit and to playing a full 90 mins, its also considered his best performance and a sign of what he might be capable of in the future, a reason for people to show patience.

It would be unfair (and actually skew the data) to bring his other performances into the post when they were produced whilst he was in a 'lesser state'.

The rant about people's attitude toward Collins has nothing to do with my post, but hey, clearly you needed to get it out of your system! (No judgement)

Edited August 1 by May Contain Nuts

[BathRam72]

Let's look on the brightside.  The only game he has looked decent in was against the best team he has played in for us. Ergo, he will play angainst much better teams in the championship.  Maybe he gets better as the opposition get better. Can't wait to play in the champions league 🤣

[Chester40]

I agree he is most similar to Abdoul Camara so far.

There's always hope he can change that, but so far...he's very lazy and apathetic without the ball and with it his basic touch looks poor.

I think Fornah showed more potential in the games he has played than CBT,  and he seemingly is totally out of favour ...so Warne has kinda set the scene for a lack of patience.

Seems a strange signing. His body language and attitude on the pitch is questionable to date, and other than pace he doesn't seem to be a Warne-type player or fit into the system he prefers. 

If he goes on to be a crucial player for us I'm sure some fans will say 'I told you so', but I personally can only go on what I've seen so far and I haven't seen anything particularly promising so far.

[jono]

8 hours ago, May Contain Nuts said:

Playing AI? Skewed sample?

The post is about my personal (fully human!) recollection of his performance against Portsmouth, and I've used his stats from the game to check how accurate that recollection is. Pretty much agreed as the most acceptable and unbiased use of stats by most on the forum.

Obviously it's a small sample size - I'm looking at one game in isolation, that's kind of the point. It's exactly what ensures that the data isn't skewed!

It was the closest he's been in his time here to being fully fit and to playing a full 90 mins, its also considered his best performance and a sign of what he might be capable of in the future, a reason for people to show patience.

It would be unfair (and actually skew the data) to bring his other performances into the post when they were produced whilst he was in a 'lesser state'.

The rant about people's attitude toward Collins has nothing to do with my post, but hey, clearly you needed to get it out of your system! (No judgement)

Not really, it was simply my opinion. There are others of course. What I needed to get off my chest was my opposition to a state of mind that exists in certain quarters. That of precipitous judgement of players and the visceral delight some seem to enjoy too much. CBT, Collins, Bradley are recent examples. There was a time when some (not accusing you) even wanted to have a go at Curtis Davies.. no pace, too old, lost it. Then he shut them up in his last season. 
CBT is the current target and in my opinion it’s unworthy. Not because I think he’s great, but because we don’t know yet. 

[BaianoPOTY98]

3 minutes ago, jono said:

Not really, it was simply my opinion. There are others of course. What I needed to get off my chest was my opposition to a state of mind that exists in certain quarters. That of precipitous judgement of players and the visceral delight some seem to enjoy too much. CBT, Collins, Bradley are recent examples. There was a time when some (not accusing you) even wanted to have a go at Curtis Davies.. no pace, too old, lost it. Then he shut them up in his last season. 
CBT is the current target and in my opinion it’s unworthy. Not because I think he’s great, but because we don’t know yet. 

I have to agree with you jono, the first time I saw him play at pride park I had my reservations due to the lack of fight and chasing back, I still have the same reservations, but, I like you, don’t think he’s been given a fair chance yet, give him a few weeks playing in his preferred winger role (if he’s given that chance) and let’s hope he proves a lot of people wrong 🙏

[Comrade 86]

23 minutes ago, jono said:

Not really, it was simply my opinion. There are others of course. What I needed to get off my chest was my opposition to a state of mind that exists in certain quarters. That of precipitous judgement of players and the visceral delight some seem to enjoy too much. CBT, Collins, Bradley are recent examples. There was a time when some (not accusing you) even wanted to have a go at Curtis Davies.. no pace, too old, lost it. Then he shut them up in his last season. 
CBT is the current target and in my opinion it’s unworthy. Not because I think he’s great, but because we don’t know yet. 

This kinda sums up my feelings too. No player or member of the coaching team is above criticism, but I do think folk on here (and even more so on other SM) take it too far, too often. The point is, what should be considered fair and constructive?

For my part, I thought CBT showed promise once he did start to get fully healthy, but I really don't know how to assess him as yet as 500 minutes spread over months doesn't seem like enough to form any concrete opinions. Folk will though and that's fine as long as they accept that others won't necessarily agree with them.

Edited August 2 by Comrade 86
Typo

[Archied]

I’m gonna wait and see how he performs this season , hopefully he has the talent to step up a division  , he has it at league 1 though players go in and out of form with injuries and other factors , he did not really hit any form after his move to us but that not enough for me to write him off🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited August 2 by Archied

[valakari]

Personally i don't tbink we will ever know.

He is always recovering from injury, so he will never get a run in the team.

From what i have seen, not much granted, he gives the ball away a great deal, his crosses are overhit, his finishing is appalling..his only asset is his pace.

I think we should sell him on asap, just my opinion from what ive seen.

[Crewton]

3 hours ago, Chester40 said:

I think Fornah showed more potential in the games he has played than CBT,  and he seemingly is totally out of favour ...so Warne has kinda set the scene for a lack of patience.

Then again.... this was September 18th 2023:

[therealhantsram]

18 hours ago, jono said:

That’s pure farce … transfers poor ? When we were under a zillion restrictions and making peace with the EFL. ? And since then we have started to make real signings and they all look pretty healthy. It’s true CBT has been underwhelming but his injury niggles haven’t helped and he hasn’t actually played that much football for us. There is time. It is clear that he isn’t a genius but there is some pace and power there, so let’s just wait and see. As to Fornah .. same story. I don’t think he’s had much chance. Injuries, Warne choosing Hourihan as an automatic start and then Ebou arriving with such impact (that wasn’t a bad signing was it ! ) Fornah is tidy, has good control, I am sure he will contribute. 

Big difference between Warne transfers and Rosenoir transfers. Both were under the same restrictions. Go figure.

[Magicman]

2 hours ago, Crewton said:

Then again.... this was September 18th 2023:

Worked out correct again !! 

[LeedsCityRam]

Its not been a stellar start from CBT but still far too early to write him off. I think there are 2 key issues with him; confidence & fitness with the former possibly being the bigger problem. The stand out game was obviously his performance at Portsmouth - away to champions-elect in front of a vociferous home crowd in the pouring rain & he delivered a performance of real menace. He came off in the second half, got a rousing reception from the away fans & you could tell it meant a lot to him. A few days later away at Wycombe, he misses an absolute sitter & he crumpled - his demeanour noticeably changed & he looked a bit lost until Warne hauled him off early.

I've got it on good authority that's he's desperate to succeed here & I sense he's trying too hard. Obviously some folk will see his lack of press & question that assertion but the two aren't mutually exclusive - I simply don't think he's that sort of energetic footballer without the ball (certainly wasn't at Charlton) but that doesn't mean that he isn't trying. To my second point, I also think he's been sub-par fitness wise since joining us & particularly so given Warne's physical demands on players.

He looks the type to need careful management & I hope Warne is earning his corn by doing exactly that. Given CBT's decent assist & goal record, I could see him playing across the front line as well as wide with his pace & willingness to carry the ball potentially very useful given we will likely be playing a low block counter attacking style for a lot of the season. He could be a big player for us this term - please don't get on the lad's back or mistake his languid style for laziness.

[DavesaRam]

14 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Its not been a stellar start from CBT but still far too early to write him off. I think there are 2 key issues with him; confidence & fitness with the former possibly being the bigger problem. The stand out game was obviously his performance at Portsmouth - away to champions-elect in front of a vociferous home crowd in the pouring rain & he delivered a performance of real menace. He came off in the second half, got a rousing reception from the away fans & you could tell it meant a lot to him. A few days later away at Wycombe, he misses an absolute sitter & he crumpled - his demeanour noticeably changed & he looked a bit lost until Warne hauled him off early.

I've got it on good authority that's he's desperate to succeed here & I sense he's trying too hard. Obviously some folk will see his lack of press & question that assertion but the two aren't mutually exclusive - I simply don't think he's that sort of energetic footballer without the ball (certainly wasn't at Charlton) but that doesn't mean that he isn't trying. To my second point, I also think he's been sub-par fitness wise since joining us & particularly so given Warne's physical demands on players.

He looks the type to need careful management & I hope Warne is earning his corn by doing exactly that. Given CBT's decent assist & goal record, I could see him playing across the front line as well as wide with his pace & willingness to carry the ball potentially very useful given we will likely be playing a low block counter attacking style for a lot of the season. He could be a big player for us this term - please don't get on the lad's back or mistake his languid style for laziness.

Part of Warne earning his core with CBT would be not leaving him on the bench or even out of the squad when he is actually fit, and then giving him only a few minutes here and there, often in the wrong position. Sadly previous form (Warne's, not CBT's) would suggest otherwise. I hope to be proved wrong.