Transfer rumours

[FlyBritishMidland]

9 hours ago, AljosaAsanovic said:

Id love to be proved wrong but from what I've seen Daj at this moment in time is no where near ready for a run of games at this level. 

Honestly believe academy tinted glasses are being used a lot here. 

I think that’s the thing.  There’s obviously a lot of clamour for Brown to be involved, largely due to the fact that we’ve only really signed Yates who’s played 1 game.  But if we look at it objectively, would there be the same clamour if we’d picked up a young lad with a good 6 months in the National League for a few quid?  Yet at the same time, don’t sign a player who’s had a good 6 months in L2.  If Brown hadn’t come through our academy, they’d both be considered pretty much the same.

I also don’t think it’s solely PW’s decision, but of course he’s accountable.  I think Matt Hale and Jake Buxton will heavily be involved giving their input and recommendations.  For all we know, they may be saying he’s not ready to be thrown into the cut and thrust of 1st team football regularly but keep him around the squad for experience.  This could be due to ability or mental toughness or some other metric.

I still expect Brown to go on loan if we sign someone and I think that’s best for him long term.  Reality is, we’re not going to create hat fulls of chances this season.  Therefore, he need to be really ruthless, every miss becomes more crucial and may affect his confidence.  Go on loan to a team that will be challenging at the top end of L1/L2 where he’ll get more chances, more likely to score, the misses don’t become important, he doesn’t linger on them as they become a distant memory and his confidence grows.

Edited August 29 by FlyBritishMidland

[TomTom92]

12 minutes ago, Srg said:

Seen Nigel Lonwijk has signed for Huddersfield on loan, know a number thought he could come here earlier in the window. 

Would’ve been a good signing but alas after 3 months, the search continues for a defender.

[brady1993]

7 hours ago, crutch18 said:

Callum Ball and Morgan Whittaker both looked phenomenal at youth Level, both made semi promising appearances at a young age yet both failed ultimately in succeeding at Derby. Just because Brown has looked good in Age group football doesn't mean he will make it in our first team.

Roughly 1 in 10 players make 20+ plus football or premier league appearances, this shows the incredible job our academy did when they reached the youth champions league knockouts which I believe Bird Knight Sibley Thompson Whittaker and Jordan Brown have all gone on to make alot of football league appearances. This doesn't mean Brown or anyone else in the academy will match that, if anything I think we've been spoilt with that group. From what I've seen of Brown he's very raw in senior football and isn't quite technically or physically at the levels required but who knows given a year or three and he could be on his way out the door for millions 

You mean the guy that scored 19 and got 8 assists last season?

You mean the guy people were saying at the time needs time to acclimatise (as he had needed at every youth level) and needs faith in him?

You mean the guy Rooney messed around and then bombed him out?

Because that's a fantastic example of the exact opposite of your entire point. And had he remained at Derby, I think it's highly highly likely that he'd either be in the squad fringes right now or let go on a free.

 

[brady1993]

18 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

I think that’s the thing.  There’s obviously a lot of clamour for Brown to be involved, largely due to the fact that we’ve only really signed Yates who’s played 1 game.  But if we look at it objectively, would there be the same clamour if we’d picked up a young lad with a good 6 months in the National League for a few quid?  Yet at the same time, don’t sign a player who’s had a good 6 months in L2.  If Brown hadn’t come through our academy, they’d both be considered pretty much the same.

It's really not the same thing though. Our academy is genuinely among the best in the country. There's reasons why we are cat 1 and playing in the premier league 2. The players produced by it you'd expect to be on average a lot better than those plying there trade further down the league because those are players that one of the better academies (like ours) didn't catch, bring in early and receive on balance better coaching.

The truth is very few players look ready right out the gate but with game time at their own club and faith a lot start to piece it together. Nobody is calling on Brown to be the first choice going into the season but with the striker situation being what it was, with Yates banned for the first 3 game and having cup games that's a perfect run of games to gamble on him. It'd be a chance to see where he was at, and see if he would rapidly develop with game time at this level and the faith that he's getting a run of games (as it's very frequently the case).

35 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

I also don’t think it’s solely PW’s decision, but of course he’s accountable.  I think Matt Hale and Jake Buxton will heavily be involved giving their input and recommendations.  For all we know, they may be saying he’s not ready to be thrown into the cut and thrust of 1st team football regularly but keep him around the squad for experience.  This could be due to ability or mental toughness or some other metric.

If this had just happened with Brown, I'd be willing to entertain it. Truth is it's much more a pattern than that with how Warne interacts with players coming from the academy.

[Anag Ram]

We have to get the balance right between security and creativity.

We have a fairly solid back four combination that has very little footballing skill. They set the tone by anxiously passing sideways or short to the midfield player facing them. When under pressure, they hoof it and we lose possession.

The midfield enforcers, Adams and Ozoh, aren’t talented dribblers or passers. Goudmijn has that, but is lightweight and lacks like-minded teammates. Osborn has the best blend, but isn’t really a playmaker. So, getting it wide and relying on crosses becomes our only option.

We have to hope that Chirewa establishes himself in the starting eleven and can form a bond with Goudmijn and Yates.

 I don’t think NML and Jackson fit in the same team and the latter looks more dangerous at present.

We have to be able to pick a way through by passing the ball and I think that’s why Warne is so frustrated with his lot. We don’t look like doing it with the current squad and finding reinforcements has been tricky.

 I thought we would spend our budget on midfielders who would contribute goals. Instead, we have provided a better shield for a League One defence and are relying on pace on the break and set pieces.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

1 hour ago, TomTom92 said:

Would’ve been a good signing but alas after 3 months, the search continues for a defender.

Someone on here recently said that given how poor we were defensively in pre-season, it is crazy that we haven't brought in at least 1 defender.

To think in a back 3 our options are either Bradley or Forsyth, assuming the other 2 are fit or not suspended. 

What I'd give for a young fit Jake Buxton in my life.

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, brady1993 said:

You mean the guy that scored 19 and got 8 assists last season?

You mean the guy people were saying at the time needs time to acclimatise (as he had needed at every youth level) and needs faith in him?

You mean the guy Rooney messed around and then bombed him out?

Because that's a fantastic example of the exact opposite of your entire point. And had he remained at Derby, I think it's highly highly likely that he'd either be in the squad fringes right now or let go on a free.

 

It was odd though that Russell Martin at Swansea let Whittaker go to Plymouth for the equivalent of a very small profit, even after he'd performed so well on loan there. 

So it wasn't just Rooney who saw things he didn't like, however misguidedly.

[AljosaAsanovic]

57 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

We have to get the balance right between security and creativity.

We have a fairly solid back four combination that has very little footballing skill. They set the tone by anxiously passing sideways or short to the midfield player facing them. When under pressure, they hoof it and we lose possession.

The midfield enforcers, Adams and Ozoh, aren’t talented dribblers or passers. Goudmijn has that, but is lightweight and lacks like-minded teammates. Osborn has the best blend, but isn’t really a playmaker. So, getting it wide and relying on crosses becomes our only option.

We have to hope that Chirewa establishes himself in the starting eleven and can form a bond with Goudmijn and Yates.

 I don’t think NML and Jackson fit in the same team and the latter looks more dangerous at present.

We have to be able to pick a way through by passing the ball and I think that’s why Warne is so frustrated with his lot. We don’t look like doing it with the current squad and finding reinforcements has been tricky.

 I thought we would spend our budget on midfielders who would contribute goals. Instead, we have provided a better shield for a League One defence and are relying on pace on the break and set pieces.

Excellent post. 

[maxjam]

1 hour ago, brady1993 said:

It's really not the same thing though. Our academy is genuinely among the best in the country. There's reasons why we are cat 1 and playing in the premier league 2.

And where did we finish in PL2?

Two years ago we were bottom with approx half the points of the team 2nd from bottom.  Last season we were still bottom, but had closed the gap considerably.

We're on the way back from administration, but we're not quite there yet and I'm not sure its sensible to throw the few academy players PW has given minutes into first team time yet.  For differing reasons both last season and this season points will be at a premium and despite showing early signs of promise imho loaning them out will be better for their development.

[Ghost of Clough]

21 minutes ago, Crewton said:

It was odd though that Russell Martin at Swansea let Whittaker go to Plymouth for the equivalent of a very small profit, even after he'd performed so well on loan there. 

So it wasn't just Rooney who saw things he didn't like, however misguidedly.

Michael Duff was the manager when they sold him - a manager with a very different style of play to their previous managers.

[Ghost of Clough]

12 minutes ago, maxjam said:

And where did we finish in PL2?

Two years ago we were bottom with approx half the points of the team 2nd from bottom.  Last season we were still bottom, but had closed the gap considerably.

We're on the way back from administration, but we're not quite there yet and I'm not sure its sensible to throw the few academy players PW has given minutes into first team time yet.  For differing reasons both last season and this season points will be at a premium and despite showing early signs of promise imho loaning them out will be better for their development.

Just 2 points behind Man City last season. There was also only 5 games where we lost by more than 1 goal (3 of those before the end of September) so we weren't outclassed in many (if any games).

It's a pointless metric though. You're looking for individual performances at that level, not team performances.

[Crewton]

6 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Michael Duff was the manager when they sold him - a manager with a very different style of play to their previous managers.

But it was Martin who brought him back from loan in the previous January against his wishes and then barely used him for the rest of the season?

[crutch18]

1 hour ago, brady1993 said:

You mean the guy that scored 19 and got 8 assists last season?

You mean the guy people were saying at the time needs time to acclimatise (as he had needed at every youth level) and needs faith in him?

You mean the guy Rooney messed around and then bombed him out?

Because that's a fantastic example of the exact opposite of your entire point. And had he remained at Derby, I think it's highly highly likely that he'd either be in the squad fringes right now or let go on a free.

 

Youve completely missed what I was saying. When Whittaker made his debut he was the same age as Brown is now. He was Raw and imo didn't look ready the same as Brown doesn't. Not 100% but I'm sure Whittakers youth Team record was superior too that of Browns aswell.

There's absolutely no guarantee that he could make the step up now, the same way we couldn't guarantee Whittaker would step up. That's my point 

Whittaker left over 3 years ago and had one successful since then. Nobody could say what kind of career he would of had with us. 

Also, if Brown is so good, why aren't champ teams trying to loan him not a few league 1 or 2 teams?

[Paultheram]

We should be all over this!

[Ilsonram12]

Recent free agents team vs Cambridge, wonder if we had scouts there🤔

[Jimbo Ram]

1 minute ago, Ilsonram12 said:

Recent free agents team vs Cambridge, wonder if we had scouts there🤔

That Waghorn fella might be an improvement on what we currently have up top…..worth a gamble maybe 🤔 

[brady1993]

42 minutes ago, maxjam said:

And where did we finish in PL2?

Two years ago we were bottom with approx half the points of the team 2nd from bottom.  Last season we were still bottom, but had closed the gap considerably.

We're on the way back from administration, but we're not quite there yet and I'm not sure its sensible to throw the few academy players PW has given minutes into first team time yet.  For differing reasons both last season and this season points will be at a premium and despite showing early signs of promise imho loaning them out will be better for their development.

But the point I'm making is that we are even in that league does suggest that the players we will be producing through our academy is better than most. 

I'm not saying we should throw them in for the sake of it. But the amount of time academy players have gotten under Warne is consistently poor despite their being sensible opportunities to do so and it's compounded by not particularly looking to develop the younger players who'd broken through but weren't as established.

[Ram1988]

3 hours ago, Steve How Hard? said:

It would probably take him until nearly the next transfer window to get match fit. For that reason I'm inclined to say no. 

We are running out of options I feel.

[Barney1991]

19 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

That Waghorn fella might be an improvement on what we currently have up top…..worth a gamble maybe 🤔 

He’d be well received in the treatment room. 

[CocuBarmyArmy]

23 minutes ago, Ilsonram12 said:

Recent free agents team vs Cambridge, wonder if we had scouts there🤔

Would actually take Ravel Morrison controversially, has the technical ability that we lack so badly at that end of the pitch and is only 31, would be a useful squad player