Transfer rumours

[DavesaRam]

40 minutes ago, AljosaAsanovic said:

Id love to be proved wrong but from what I've seen Daj at this moment in time is no where near ready for a run of games at this level. 

Honestly believe academy tinted glasses are being used a lot here. 

More likely it is sheer frustration watching potential talent been thrown to one side time and time again. Who knows- Brown may turn out to be absolute cack at Championship level, but we'll never know unless we give him a chance - which doesn't mean a bit here and a bit there, with nowt in between.

[Rich3478]

16 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

Was he actually given the ball at any time, apart from the peno?

Not really but works both ways doesn’t it. Players have to get involved.

[DavesaRam]

2 minutes ago, Rich3478 said:

Not really but works both ways doesn’t it. Players have to get involved.

Absolutely, and Brown obviously spends far too much time in and around the penalty area for that.

Edited August 28 by DavesaRam

[Spender]

2 minutes ago, AljosaAsanovic said:

Have you really just compared a teenager who played premier league appearances last season against a player who did well in the national league. 

I won't even entertain your idea if he had a generational talent like Bellingham. 

We are playing a 19 Ozoh who has shown us in glimpses (I'm sure he shows a lot more in training) of his talent and ability to hold there own at this level. Do you seriously believe if we had a player of ozohs ability in our youth team he wouldn't be in knocking on the first team door? 

Warne's style of football is killing me at the moment, as I love to be entertained. But I do think he is good at get the maximum out of a players ability/skill level. No matter what age. 

I believe if he and others believed a player from league 2 could step up I'm happy with that. A bit like Clough with Brayford.

I watched every Derby game home and away last season. I watched Dajaune Brown play for us in the U18, U21, the Central League and in five games for Gateshead, including his winning master class in the FA Trophy final at Wembley. Google what the Gateshead manager I'm in my 64th year of watching Derby and during that time of all the homegrown youth players we have brought through, the least productive department is strikers; the best so far in that area is Dean Sturridge whose final career overall for me ended disappointingly. I am in no doubt that Dajaune at 18 is well in front of where Sturridge was at the same age. Steve Powell, Tom Huddlestone and Will Hughes debuted at 16 and became regulars. Powell, while still a schoolboy was part of the League Champions team in 1972; Cloughie said if he's good enough he's old enough. What's changed with that? Kevin Hector arrived at Derby as our record signing in 1966, aged 21, having already scored 113 League goals for Bradford Park Avenue in Divisions Three and Four (now 1 & 2). How did he do that? Because he had a manager who believed in him.

You give John Brayford as an example of what Nigel Clough brought through; he wasn't a youth player; we bought him when he already had played 158 games in the EFL and was almost 23. Ozoh so far has looked okay but why do you say he is better than anything we have in our U21 side who play in the same League as Palace? How are you sure he shows a lot more in training? I've watched him train and he hasn't overwhelmed me. The same applies to Chirewa. Both were given much more first-team time last season than Dajaune was in League One. Why? Because they were being managed by  coaches who trust youth players more than Paul Warne does. Now their coaches have decided that for this season they need to take a step down. You retain your opinion if you wish as it matters not to me; but I have my own mind and I am not limited to if it's good enough for Warne, it's good enough for me.

I back Paul Warne as our manager until I have reason not to. He's safe while he is improving our league position. But I have good reason to believe that there is some concern and frustration from within the academy that he is too cautious in giving youth a chance. Given that we have a particularly promising group of 17 to 19 years old players coming through, which could have a big say in how soon we can compete for our next promotion, the ownership will need to satisfy himself that our head coach is able to make the most of that opportunity.

[Sparkle]

9 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

More likely it is sheer frustration watching potential talent been thrown to one side time and time again. Who knows- Brown may turn out to be absolute cack at Championship level, but we'll never know unless we give him a chance - which doesn't mean a bit here and a bit there, with nowt in between.

Totally agree - even last night not starting Brown In that game over Collins ( not being disrespectful to collins) was a disgrace in fact why send him out on loan to a league one or two team if we don’t play him against a league two team 

[BramcoteRam84]

13 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

More likely it is sheer frustration watching potential talent been thrown to one side time and time again. Who knows- Brown may turn out to be absolute cack at Championship level, but we'll never know unless we give him a chance - which doesn't mean a bit here and a bit there, with nowt in between.

Or do what we did with Morgan Whittaker and play him too early. Brown isn’t ready IMO but Whittaker is proof that we should take our time and not blood too soon. 

[Sparkle]

7 minutes ago, Spender said:

I watched every Derby game home and away last season. I watched Dajaune Brown play for us in the U18, U21, the Central League and in five games for Gateshead, including his winning master class in the FA Trophy final at Wembley. Google what the Gateshead manager I'm in my 64th year of watching Derby and during that time of all the homegrown youth players we have brought through, the least productive department is strikers; the best so far in that area is Dean Sturridge whose final career overall for me ended disappointingly. I am in no doubt that Dajaune at 18 is well in front of where Sturridge was at the same age. Steve Powell, Tom Huddlestone and Will Hughes debuted at 16 and became regulars. Powell, while still a schoolboy was part of the League Champions team in 1972; Cloughie said if he's good enough he's old enough. What's changed with that? Kevin Hector arrived at Derby as our record signing in 1966, aged 21, having already scored 113 League goals for Bradford Park Avenue in Divisions Three and Four (now 1 & 2). How did he do that? Because he had a manager who believed in him.

You give John Brayford as an example of what Nigel Clough brought through; he wasn't a youth player; we bought him when he already had played 158 games in the EFL and was almost 23. Ozoh so far has looked okay but why do you say he is better than anything we have in our U21 side who play in the same League as Palace? How are you sure he shows a lot more in training? I've watched him train and he hasn't overwhelmed me. The same applies to Chirewa. Both were given much more first-team time last season than Dajaune was in League One. Why? Because they were being managed by  coaches who trust youth players more than Paul Warne does. Now their coaches have decided that for this season they need to take a step down. You retain your opinion if you wish as it matters not to me; but I have my own mind and I am not limited to if it's good enough for Warne, it's good enough for me.

I back Paul Warne as our manager until I have reason not to. He's safe while he is improving our league position. But I have good reason to believe that there is some concern and frustration from within the academy that he is too cautious in giving youth a chance. Given that we have a particularly promising group of 17 to 19 years old players coming through, which could have a big say in how soon we can compete for our next promotion, the ownership will need to satisfy himself that our head coach is able to make the most of that opportunity.

Great post, apart from Adams ( who is no youngster) all of Warne’s loan signings have been dreadful and zero improvement on what we had available from within our own academy 

[DavesaRam]

11 minutes ago, Spender said:

I watched every Derby game home and away last season. I watched Dajaune Brown play for us in the U18, U21, the Central League and in five games for Gateshead, including his winning master class in the FA Trophy final at Wembley. Google what the Gateshead manager I'm in my 64th year of watching Derby and during that time of all the homegrown youth players we have brought through, the least productive department is strikers; the best so far in that area is Dean Sturridge whose final career overall for me ended disappointingly. I am in no doubt that Dajaune at 18 is well in front of where Sturridge was at the same age. Steve Powell, Tom Huddlestone and Will Hughes debuted at 16 and became regulars. Powell, while still a schoolboy was part of the League Champions team in 1972; Cloughie said if he's good enough he's old enough. What's changed with that? Kevin Hector arrived at Derby as our record signing in 1966, aged 21, having already scored 113 League goals for Bradford Park Avenue in Divisions Three and Four (now 1 & 2). How did he do that? Because he had a manager who believed in him.

You give John Brayford as an example of what Nigel Clough brought through; he wasn't a youth player; we bought him when he already had played 158 games in the EFL and was almost 23. Ozoh so far has looked okay but why do you say he is better than anything we have in our U21 side who play in the same League as Palace? How are you sure he shows a lot more in training? I've watched him train and he hasn't overwhelmed me. The same applies to Chirewa. Both were given much more first-team time last season than Dajaune was in League One. Why? Because they were being managed by  coaches who trust youth players more than Paul Warne does. Now their coaches have decided that for this season they need to take a step down. You retain your opinion if you wish as it matters not to me; but I have my own mind and I am not limited to if it's good enough for Warne, it's good enough for me.

I back Paul Warne as our manager until I have reason not to. He's safe while he is improving our league position. But I have good reason to believe that there is some concern and frustration from within the academy that he is too cautious in giving youth a chance. Given that we have a particularly promising group of 17 to 19 years old players coming through, which could have a big say in how soon we can compete for our next promotion, the ownership will need to satisfy himself that our head coach is able to make the most of that opportunity.

"too cautious" - that's too generous.

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, Spender said:

Have you never considered natural ability, age and potential or are you in the Paul Warne school of thought where if he had Jude Bellingham in his academy he would be looking forward to giving him a first team debut when he reaches 23 after loans in the men's game at Stocksbridge Park Steels, Bamber Bridge and Sherwood Colliery?

Dajaune's had just 170 minutes of first team football with us in 13 months when his immediate potential was first realised. Chirewa is a year older than Dajaune but Dajaune outstripped him last season on both stats and performances. Why did Chirewa start last night with Dajaune on the bench? Because Warne cannot trust his own judgement on youth but he will trust Gary O'Neill who is also insisting on his boy getting game time; I maybe wrong.

Bellingham??

f*** me, these posts get more and more surreal by the minute.

[AljosaAsanovic]

6 minutes ago, Spender said:

I watched every Derby game home and away last season. I watched Dajaune Brown play for us in the U18, U21, the Central League and in five games for Gateshead, including his winning master class in the FA Trophy final at Wembley. Google what the Gateshead manager I'm in my 64th year of watching Derby and during that time of all the homegrown youth players we have brought through, the least productive department is strikers; the best so far in that area is Dean Sturridge whose final career overall for me ended disappointingly. I am in no doubt that Dajaune at 18 is well in front of where Sturridge was at the same age. Steve Powell, Tom Huddlestone and Will Hughes debuted at 16 and became regulars. Powell, while still a schoolboy was part of the League Champions team in 1972; Cloughie said if he's good enough he's old enough. What's changed with that? Kevin Hector arrived at Derby as our record signing in 1966, aged 21, having already scored 113 League goals for Bradford Park Avenue in Divisions Three and Four (now 1 & 2). How did he do that? Because he had a manager who believed in him.

You give John Brayford as an example of what Nigel Clough brought through; he wasn't a youth player; we bought him when he already had played 158 games in the EFL and was almost 23. Ozoh so far has looked okay but why do you say he is better than anything we have in our U21 side who play in the same League as Palace? How are you sure he shows a lot more in training? I've watched him train and he hasn't overwhelmed me. The same applies to Chirewa. Both were given much more first-team time last season than Dajaune was in League One. Why? Because they were being managed by  coaches who trust youth players more than Paul Warne does. Now their coaches have decided that for this season they need to take a step down. You retain your opinion if you wish as it matters not to me; but I have my own mind and I am not limited to if it's good enough for Warne, it's good enough for me.

I back Paul Warne as our manager until I have reason not to. He's safe while he is improving our league position. But I have good reason to believe that there is some concern and frustration from within the academy that he is too cautious in giving youth a chance. Given that we have a particularly promising group of 17 to 19 years old players coming through, which could have a big say in how soon we can compete for our next promotion, the ownership will need to satisfy himself that our head coach is able to make the most of that opportunity.

I'll start this by saying you are obviously far more in to this than me, and I respect your commitment and love for the club over a very long period of time. 

I am well and truly in the Brian Clough camp of if you're good enough you are old enough. I have never once said Daj isn't old enough. I am saying I don't think he is good enough yet. From the little I have seen. You have obviously seen far more than me and in a better position. 

I was comparing the John Brayford signing to Jake Taylor. Not an academy graduate. 

I back Paul Warne at the minute too. Is hr my ideal Derby manager? No. Do I believe he has a ceiling to where he can take us? Absolutely. Do I enjoy his set up and style of football? Definitely not. But I believe for where we are at this moment, and with the funds and limitations available then I believe his pragmatic approach and what he's done so far, he should be out manager at this moment in time. 

Again, from the little I've seen of Daj, I don't think he is ready. You've seen a lot more and think he is. 

 

Paul Warne is starting a 19 year old. So I don't see how you say he is reluctant to give youth a chance. 

[hintonsboots]

27 minutes ago, Spender said:

I watched every Derby game home and away last season. I watched Dajaune Brown play for us in the U18, U21, the Central League and in five games for Gateshead, including his winning master class in the FA Trophy final at Wembley. Google what the Gateshead manager I'm in my 64th year of watching Derby and during that time of all the homegrown youth players we have brought through, the least productive department is strikers; the best so far in that area is Dean Sturridge whose final career overall for me ended disappointingly. I am in no doubt that Dajaune at 18 is well in front of where Sturridge was at the same age. Steve Powell, Tom Huddlestone and Will Hughes debuted at 16 and became regulars. Powell, while still a schoolboy was part of the League Champions team in 1972; Cloughie said if he's good enough he's old enough. What's changed with that? Kevin Hector arrived at Derby as our record signing in 1966, aged 21, having already scored 113 League goals for Bradford Park Avenue in Divisions Three and Four (now 1 & 2). How did he do that? Because he had a manager who believed in him.

You give John Brayford as an example of what Nigel Clough brought through; he wasn't a youth player; we bought him when he already had played 158 games in the EFL and was almost 23. Ozoh so far has looked okay but why do you say he is better than anything we have in our U21 side who play in the same League as Palace? How are you sure he shows a lot more in training? I've watched him train and he hasn't overwhelmed me. The same applies to Chirewa. Both were given much more first-team time last season than Dajaune was in League One. Why? Because they were being managed by  coaches who trust youth players more than Paul Warne does. Now their coaches have decided that for this season they need to take a step down. You retain your opinion if you wish as it matters not to me; but I have my own mind and I am not limited to if it's good enough for Warne, it's good enough for me.

I back Paul Warne as our manager until I have reason not to. He's safe while he is improving our league position. But I have good reason to believe that there is some concern and frustration from within the academy that he is too cautious in giving youth a chance. Given that we have a particularly promising group of 17 to 19 years old players coming through, which could have a big say in how soon we can compete for our next promotion, the ownership will need to satisfy himself that our head coach is able to make the most of that opportunity.

Outstanding post mate.

[BuckoBeast]

Last few days of the transfer window, going to be exciting and intriguing as a Derby fan 😂 on the edge of our seats 💩 

Edited August 28 by BuckoBeast

[MackworthRamIsGod]

2 hours ago, Crewton said:

I was talking about permanent transfers.

Fair enough 🫡

[crutch18]

49 minutes ago, Spender said:

I watched every Derby game home and away last season. I watched Dajaune Brown play for us in the U18, U21, the Central League and in five games for Gateshead, including his winning master class in the FA Trophy final at Wembley. Google what the Gateshead manager I'm in my 64th year of watching Derby and during that time of all the homegrown youth players we have brought through, the least productive department is strikers; the best so far in that area is Dean Sturridge whose final career overall for me ended disappointingly. I am in no doubt that Dajaune at 18 is well in front of where Sturridge was at the same age. Steve Powell, Tom Huddlestone and Will Hughes debuted at 16 and became regulars. Powell, while still a schoolboy was part of the League Champions team in 1972; Cloughie said if he's good enough he's old enough. What's changed with that? Kevin Hector arrived at Derby as our record signing in 1966, aged 21, having already scored 113 League goals for Bradford Park Avenue in Divisions Three and Four (now 1 & 2). How did he do that? Because he had a manager who believed in him.

You give John Brayford as an example of what Nigel Clough brought through; he wasn't a youth player; we bought him when he already had played 158 games in the EFL and was almost 23. Ozoh so far has looked okay but why do you say he is better than anything we have in our U21 side who play in the same League as Palace? How are you sure he shows a lot more in training? I've watched him train and he hasn't overwhelmed me. The same applies to Chirewa. Both were given much more first-team time last season than Dajaune was in League One. Why? Because they were being managed by  coaches who trust youth players more than Paul Warne does. Now their coaches have decided that for this season they need to take a step down. You retain your opinion if you wish as it matters not to me; but I have my own mind and I am not limited to if it's good enough for Warne, it's good enough for me.

I back Paul Warne as our manager until I have reason not to. He's safe while he is improving our league position. But I have good reason to believe that there is some concern and frustration from within the academy that he is too cautious in giving youth a chance. Given that we have a particularly promising group of 17 to 19 years old players coming through, which could have a big say in how soon we can compete for our next promotion, the ownership will need to satisfy himself that our head coach is able to make the most of that opportunity.

Callum Ball and Morgan Whittaker both looked phenomenal at youth Level, both made semi promising appearances at a young age yet both failed ultimately in succeeding at Derby. Just because Brown has looked good in Age group football doesn't mean he will make it in our first team.

Roughly 1 in 10 players make 20+ plus football or premier league appearances, this shows the incredible job our academy did when they reached the youth champions league knockouts which I believe Bird Knight Sibley Thompson Whittaker and Jordan Brown have all gone on to make alot of football league appearances. This doesn't mean Brown or anyone else in the academy will match that, if anything I think we've been spoilt with that group. From what I've seen of Brown he's very raw in senior football and isn't quite technically or physically at the levels required but who knows given a year or three and he could be on his way out the door for millions 

[Magicman]

Brown is nowhere near a starting spot maybe 4th so another loan at efl2 will be best .  He has continued to develop but won’t if he stays here not in the squad.

[Chester40]

1 hour ago, Spender said:

I watched every Derby game home and away last season. I watched Dajaune Brown play for us in the U18, U21, the Central League and in five games for Gateshead, including his winning master class in the FA Trophy final at Wembley. Google what the Gateshead manager I'm in my 64th year of watching Derby and during that time of all the homegrown youth players we have brought through, the least productive department is strikers; the best so far in that area is Dean Sturridge whose final career overall for me ended disappointingly. I am in no doubt that Dajaune at 18 is well in front of where Sturridge was at the same age. Steve Powell, Tom Huddlestone and Will Hughes debuted at 16 and became regulars. Powell, while still a schoolboy was part of the League Champions team in 1972; Cloughie said if he's good enough he's old enough. What's changed with that? Kevin Hector arrived at Derby as our record signing in 1966, aged 21, having already scored 113 League goals for Bradford Park Avenue in Divisions Three and Four (now 1 & 2). How did he do that? Because he had a manager who believed in him.

You give John Brayford as an example of what Nigel Clough brought through; he wasn't a youth player; we bought him when he already had played 158 games in the EFL and was almost 23. Ozoh so far has looked okay but why do you say he is better than anything we have in our U21 side who play in the same League as Palace? How are you sure he shows a lot more in training? I've watched him train and he hasn't overwhelmed me. The same applies to Chirewa. Both were given much more first-team time last season than Dajaune was in League One. Why? Because they were being managed by  coaches who trust youth players more than Paul Warne does. Now their coaches have decided that for this season they need to take a step down. You retain your opinion if you wish as it matters not to me; but I have my own mind and I am not limited to if it's good enough for Warne, it's good enough for me.

I back Paul Warne as our manager until I have reason not to. He's safe while he is improving our league position. But I have good reason to believe that there is some concern and frustration from within the academy that he is too cautious in giving youth a chance. Given that we have a particularly promising group of 17 to 19 years old players coming through, which could have a big say in how soon we can compete for our next promotion, the ownership will need to satisfy himself that our head coach is able to make the most of that opportunity.

Well.. that's a very clear,  coherent, well reasoned and well informed post.

You're clearly new around these parts.

[Ram1988]

If we don't bring in a CF should we give Gayle another short term deal? 

[CBRammette]

7 hours ago, Eoghan1884 said:

Kane Wilson and Ebou Adams are both friends with Jake Young from their time with Forest green. 

But but but PW is so hideous to play for................

[Steve How Hard?]

5 hours ago, Ram1988 said:

If we don't bring in a CF should we give Gayle another short term deal? 

It would probably take him until nearly the next transfer window to get match fit. For that reason I'm inclined to say no. 

[Srg]

Seen Nigel Lonwijk has signed for Huddersfield on loan, know a number thought he could come here earlier in the window.