UEFA Euro 2024 Thread

[littleover ram]

We should dispense with having a manager altogether and go to a cricket model of having the team picked by a panel of faceless selectors, in-match tactics done by captain Kane and get in a coach to put the cones out and hand out the bibs at training 

[Ram-Alf]

13 minutes ago, CWC1983 said:

Yeah, I know the story. He was making the crying gesture to Rodri ages ago because he was salty about getting beat at Hampden, but said last night all was forgiven. 

He is a football fan, and from the article:

He wrote: “Football rivalry at club and international level is normal and healthy.

“Without it the game is nothing. Lazy stereotypes, xenophobia and a dose of snobbery is not what rivalry, nor football, should be about.

“Let’s just stick to petty, ill informed, good natured and funny.”

You can't argue with that, can you? 

Arguing with a Scotsman is like tossing a caber…bleedin pointless 

[Crewton]

58 minutes ago, CWC1983 said:

Yeah, I know the story. He was making the crying gesture to Rodri ages ago because he was salty about getting beat at Hampden, but said last night all was forgiven. 

He is a football fan, and from the article:

He wrote: “Football rivalry at club and international level is normal and healthy.

“Without it the game is nothing. Lazy stereotypes, xenophobia and a dose of snobbery is not what rivalry, nor football, should be about.

“Let’s just stick to petty, ill informed, good natured and funny.”

You can't argue with that, can you? 

As banter goes it's mild and pretty harmless. It's just a bit odd for the leader of a political party.

[CWC1983]

2 minutes ago, Crewton said:

As banter goes it's mild and pretty harmless. It's just a bit odd for the leader of a political party.

I get that, to be fair on him, he's a proper football fan.

He's appeared on Radio Scotland's version of Hawksbee and Jacobs as a guest and generally doesn't take himself too serious outside of politics. 

No doubt he's had a fairly tough month or so politically, so some of it will have probobly been meant for some of his Westminster "rivals". 

 

 

[BramcoteRam84]

I was feeling really positive at the start of the tournament. This was our time, the best squad on paper, players in form, Southgate having grown as a manager learning from past mistakes and being positive as he was in Qatar where we were unfortunately beaten by France. Instead despite getting to the final, with the exception of  the Holland game its arguably the worst tournament we’ve played under him. We have regressed, and that’s the most disappointing thing. He’s fallen into the trap of selecting players on reputation and even picking them when not fit, just like Sven did with Becks and Capello with Rooney. 

It’s sad that it has ended this way but end it must. The most successful England manager in my lifetime, the third best manager behind Venables and Robson, but this tournament has proven to me we will not win anything with him in charge. 
 

The major positive is I actually think our golden generation is yet to come. The potential of some of this squad and those coming through behind is frightening. We need a manager who has an identity that fits these players coming through who isn’t afraid to make big calls leaving “names” out for the sake of team balance. 
 

Not sure the big foreign managers like Klopp will want it. Someone like Rangnick could be a call. If we want to go English then Eddie Howe for me would be the standout. No others really inspire me, be interesting if FA continue previous approach and similar to that of Spain and give the job to Carsley. Can’t help thinking that it’s just too big a step up for him. It’s not the coaching more all the other crap that goes with it 

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

22 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

God knows, but it’s time for someone else. I’m confident that with a more attacking manager, this team wins at least one of the last 3 trophies. Still our second greatest ever manager I’ll give him that… but he was too safe to become our greatest.

Just started watching the La Liga documentary, I think I got the man just for you…are you seating down?

El cholo, aka Diego Simeone, 100% pure passion, the polar opposite of  Safegate. He’s been at Atleti for years and needs a new challenge.

just don’t mention, the Malvinas, Beckham or the hand of god, the man might just explode

[DarkFruitsRam7]

27 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

I was feeling really positive at the start of the tournament. This was our time, the best squad on paper, players in form, Southgate having grown as a manager learning from past mistakes and being positive as he was in Qatar where we were unfortunately beaten by France. Instead despite getting to the final, with the exception of  the Holland game its arguably the worst tournament we’ve played under him. We have regressed, and that’s the most disappointing thing. He’s fallen into the trap of selecting players on reputation and even picking them when not fit, just like Sven did with Becks and Capello with Rooney. 

It’s sad that it has ended this way but end it must. The most successful England manager in my lifetime, the third best manager behind Venables and Robson, but this tournament has proven to me we will not win anything with him in charge. 
 

The major positive is I actually think our golden generation is yet to come. The potential of some of this squad and those coming through behind is frightening. We need a manager who has an identity that fits these players coming through who isn’t afraid to make big calls leaving “names” out for the sake of team balance. 
 

Not sure the big foreign managers like Klopp will want it. Someone like Rangnick could be a call. If we want to go English then Eddie Howe for me would be the standout. No others really inspire me, be interesting if FA continue previous approach and similar to that of Spain and give the job to Carsley. Can’t help thinking that it’s just too big a step up for him. It’s not the coaching more all the other crap that goes with it 

Rangnick is great at setting up a team to press, but I'm not sure how rounded he is. I imagine there's a reason why his managerial record is patchy. He also seemed to struggle handling the big egos at United.

If I were the FA, I'd go all out to bring Klopp or Ancelotti in for the end of the coming season. I don't think either would accept the job though. 

Potter and Howe are good managers at club level but I don't think they're what we need.

Tuchel has the potential to be very interesting. Again, seems to struggle with man management a little though.

Poch would be fun but he's not rated anywhere nearly as highly as he was five years ago.

Appointing Carsley would get absolutely slated, but smart people who watched his work with the U21s say he got them playing some great stuff. I agree though, it would be a huge gamble to appoint someone who's had virtually no pressure on him as a coach, and not too much as a player either. At least Southgate had the trauma of 1996 to get him used to that. The big names may also struggle to buy into him too.

[Dave Mackay Ate My Hamster]

We performed as well as the sum of our parts could be expected - if we randomnly threw them in like runes to form a team.

Good individual players, most of them capable on their day of making  game-changing contributions. The real problem is, outside of their Premier League and major European league club sides, supported by expensive non-English players and a well-drilled playing style, most are exposed as being not as good as we think they are, when their near £500-£1billion club support cast is stripped away from them.

They're good, but not worthy of the inflated hype we attach to them when playing in Southgate's " safety first " England approach.

We can score "worldies" individually, but the build-up play that these stars get week in, week out at their club sides to make them shine, is provided by better world stars that we can't replicate in the England team.

We can't move the ball accurately enough, or quick enough against better European or World teams to allow them to do their stuff. Oh, for a couple of Spanish midfielders.... Strangely our stars have them, or very similar at their own clubs.

£100m for Rice. What does that make Rodri worth?

Without a decent midfield - and Southgate hasn't worked that out all tournament we're effectively playing 4/5-0/2-3/4, floundering for the "creators" in midfield. Without two, well-drilled game-reading intelligent midfielders, we'll always be floundering at the highest level.
We just haven't worked out how to link playing out from defence to our attacking players. We get bogged down and end up passing sideways and backwards, then get over run.

We don't have a DeBruyne or a Rodri or similar in our national side. " Quarterbacks", if you will. Rice isn't the answer. Until we find a couple of midfield generals I can't see anything changing.

Edited July 15 by Dave Mackay Ate My Hamster

[DarkFruitsRam7]

2 minutes ago, Dave Mackay Ate My Hamster said:

We performed as well as the sum of our parts - if we randomnly threw them in like runes to form a team.

Good individual players, most of them capable on their day of making  game-changing contributions. The real problem is, outside of their Premier League and major European league club sides, supported by expensive non-English players and a well-drilled playing style, most are exposed as being not as good as we think they are, when their near £500-£1billion club support cast is stripped away from them.

They're good, but not worthy of the inflated hype we attach to them when playing in Southgate's " safety first " England approach.

We can score "worldies" individually, but the build-up play that these stars get week in, week out at their club sides to make them shine, is provided by better world stars that we can't replicate in the England team.

I think you're being a little harsh. All players look better when they're in a good system that plays to their strengths. The vast majority of players look weaker when the system isn't there.

I think there's a legitimate discussion to be had about someone like Foden, who we've only ever seen play in Pep's intricate system at club level. And a wider discussion about how being adaptable is growing in importance in today's system-led game. 

But I'm confident these players will look better if we get the next appointment right.

[Dave Mackay Ate My Hamster]

15 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I think you're being a little harsh. All players look better when they're in a good system that plays to their strengths. The vast majority of players look weaker when the system isn't there.

I think there's a legitimate discussion to be had about someone like Foden, who we've only ever seen play in Pep's intricate system at club level. And a wider discussion about how being adaptable is growing in importance in today's system-led game. 

But I'm confident these players will look better if we get the next appointment right.

I hope so. I do believe a better tactician could make so much more of the players we have. But we still have a current paucity of intelligent midfielders to knit the team together, at least the players we've used in this tournament. Maybe time to try others?

Square pegs in square holes. Something I don't think Southgate has managed to achieve. More " best or favourite " and see how we can crowbar them in......

Edited July 15 by Dave Mackay Ate My Hamster

[ariotofmyown]

I'm happy for Southgate to stay. I like getting to semis/finals of major tournaments.

England made 3 semis from the first 6 tournaments I remember...86-96.

We were than mostly garbage for the next 20 years or so. A procession of decent club managers were unable to remove the toxicity and bile that goes along with the England team...a vile media, desperate to abuse, plus a mornoic fanbase, hyped up on English exceptionalism and divine right to win.

Southgate sorted that out in no time and made the team well liked and popular again, which allowed them freedom to perform well.

If there was reason for him to go, it could be that the old hate has partly returned. Pundits spouting analysis-lite clickbait. Idiot fans booing the team during the match, then throwing things at Southgate. Players appearing to let the pressure get to them.

People are used to seeing perfectly honed Premiership teams, expensively assembled and worked on in forensic detail, full of international superstars. They then wonder why England, full of high value club footballers can't immediately play to a similar standard. 

Just reset your expectations. Remember these are the best times to support England in nearly 60 years. Don't believe the hype and remember the supposedly best players don't usually make the best teams. Portugal, France and Germany can show you that. Georgia, Turkey, Austria and Switzerland can from the other side of the coin.

Be happy with what we've got. What comes next has a high probablility of been worse.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

20 minutes ago, Dave Mackay Ate My Hamster said:

I hope so. I do believe a better tactician could make so much more of the players we have. But we still have a current paucity of intelligent midfielders to knit the team together, at least the players we've used in this tournament. Maybe time to try others?

Square pegs in square holes. Something I don't think Southgate has managed to achieve. More " best or favourite " and see how we can crowbar them in......

My prediction is Adam Wharton will force his way in by the time the World Cup rolls around.

[RoyMac5]

7 hours ago, Papahet said:

Experience, quality, depth, attacking options, time and money spent attempting to win a tournament... 

Our overall performance in this tournament was based on VAR decisions or last mintue goals.

The only player who can come away with any credibility is Cole Palmer - Who barely featured! 

This is all on Southgate and the FA..

We DO have the players to play attacking football, just not a manager who can learn how to adapt it.

Unbelievable talent pool and yet coached to play like the defensive underdog.

Southgate is a league one or Championship manager at best, I don't see many fans wanting him at club football and can't say I blame them.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Papahet said:

Ok then, who'd you had swapped in that Spain squad prior to the tournament starting in our squad?

Rodri? We have a 100 million quid Declan Rice playing that role.

Possibly Neco Williams, however Saka is more than good enough and was one of the standouts IMO.

Foden, Bellingham,  Saka, Bowen, Palmer, Gordon,  Trent, Watkins, Eze....

Crazy amount of talent with pace and energy - Yet we sat back and had two holding midfielders under Southgate throughout the entire competition 👌

Yeah, makes me laugh posters saying Spain is how Warne wants us to play, when actually England is how he has us playing! 😄

[Bris Vegas]

18 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I'm happy for Southgate to stay. I like getting to semis/finals of major tournaments.

Do you honestly believe we were the second best team at the Euros? 

I don’t take issue that you like Southgate because you like how he has brought the team together, how we play, how he conducts himself etc.

But his record against the better teams is poor. Reaching the semi-final and finals has largely been dependent on avoiding the top teams until that stage.

I just don’t see that changing.

And Southgate’s luck of the draw may finally runout at 2026 and we limp out to a Brazil, Portugal, France or Spain in the 1/4 finals and his record tarnished.

 

 

[AndyinLiverpool]

4 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Do you honestly believe we were the second best team at the Euros? 

I don’t take issue that you like Southgate because you like how he has brought the team together, how we play, how he conducts himself etc.

But his record against the better teams is poor. Reaching the semi-final and finals has largely been dependent on avoiding the top teams until that stage.

I just don’t see that changing.

And Southgate’s luck of the draw may finally runout at 2026 and we limp out to a Brazil, Portugal, France or Spain in the 1/4 finals and his record tarnished.

 

 

Change the record

[Dave Mackay Ate My Hamster]

Well, if nothing else it's been hugely entertaining. The current Spanish team aside, it goes to show there's not much between the rest of the chasing pack - for now.

[Marriot Ram99]

10 hours ago, cannable said:

We did better than I expected, but every single time it comes to a game like this the same thing happens.

We don’t keep the ball. Carrick would play in this team over Rice every single day of the week (probably alongside, to be fair). 

I dont rate Rice really as a holder his best role is actually ball playing centre back in a 3 or as a box to box ratter similar to Gallagher but better imo . He plays like a lower league player at times under pressure for England just smacking it anywhere , him and Pickford both led to lots of turnovers by not having that top level precison on the ball and the coolness.

My England team to build round for the future would be:

Foden  Palmer False 9(will work a treat) Saka

   Jude  Maino

         Wharton

Shaw Guehi Stones Trent

           Pickford

 

   

[kevinhectoring]

On 14/07/2024 at 23:17, SSD said:

How the heck did Foden start every game yet Palmer didn't even get a proper look in. That's always baffled me.

Foden should start. Palmer should have, as well. Saka and Kane should have been on the bench 

[Van der MoodHoover]

22 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Saka and Mainoo were the bright sparks of the tournament for me.

Everyone will point to Kane as a major problem, but we didn’t play to his strengths whatsoever. If he’s your main striker and your main goal threat, you have to figure out a way to get him opportunities and doing what he does best.

The bigger problems for me were Foden, Bellingham and Rice and the way these three players have become almost undroppable and always have to be shoehorned into the team even when ineffective.

For a 100m valued player, Rice is astonishingly one-footed.

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

Do you honestly believe we were the second best team at the Euros? 

I don’t take issue that you like Southgate because you like how he has brought the team together, how we play, how he conducts himself etc.

But his record against the better teams is poor. Reaching the semi-final and finals has largely been dependent on avoiding the top teams until that stage.

I just don’t see that changing.

And Southgate’s luck of the draw may finally runout at 2026 and we limp out to a Brazil, Portugal, France or Spain in the 1/4 finals and his record tarnished.

 

 

I'm not sure how you link me liking getting to semis/finals (3 in 4 tournaments) to believing we were the 2nd best team in the Euros.

Southgate's luck deserted him in the last World Cup, when we "limped" out to France in the QFs. 

Most teams who win tournaments have luck. Spain winning this one was an outlier as they were clearly the best team overall. They could have easily lost to Germany on pens though without that late goal, then we'd all be proclaiming Germany clearly the best team if they had beaten France and England well. 

So much is based on ifs and buts in tournaments, yet everyone has their own boring opinion on how England just needed to play x instead of y and all would be rosy.

My main point though, was a change of manager will probably end up with us doing worse.

We tried a string of top managers who mostly turned out rubbish. Just like the myth of changing 2 players would make everything right, there is a fantasy that there is a manager right there to make us win things.

There is probably a 10% chance of this coming true. Knowing who could make this happen is impossible. The things that great club managers have are always going to be a struggle at international level. There are no times to implement involved systems and many attacking styles. 

We have a manager who has most of the qualities to make England succeed in the febrile atmosphere of millions of opininated fans and a media desperate for controvesy and instant success.

We might be able to find a new manager that could improve a little on the playing side. History suggests finding someone who can deal with the toxicity of being England manager is unlikely.

The next manager will either by despised by the media/masses as they haven't been successful enough as a player, manager or celebrity (Carsley or Potter) or they will a laughing stock famous name like Gerrard or Lampard, that the media/masses will afford initial great respect too because they scored a lot of goals in club football.

Be careful what you wish for, we probably won't have it so good again for a long while.