Paul Warne

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Archied said:

You think his style of football is dire and really that’s the crux of it but the truth is you don’t go to games so I’m not really sure you have much to complain about , I like many many others shell out for 2 season tickets and do a 6 hour round trip , if I was clowes I know who I would be most bothered about , and before the half fan ect moans roll out it’s just the cold hard truth 

Sky money gives the Club more than fans attending matches love. 😄

[Archied]

30 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Sick of hearing the term 'gas out' too.

Ok change it to give everything you’ve got , leave everything on the pitch ect ect ect , im not sick of hearing that , it’s what I want from every player that pulls on our shirt , perhaps we would be better with a manager that tells us he wants the players giving 75% 😂😂😂😂😂,

seen plenty of comments after games saying how disgusting that our players don’t even look like they are trying 

[nottingram]

My feeling on Warne is that he is broadly excellent at getting teams to perform to about where their budget is. Give him a top end L1 budget, no problem he’ll have you top end L1, give him a relegation Championship budget, he’ll probably get you relegated, I dare say if he was lucky enough to get a top end Championship at any point in his career he’d have a team top end Championship. 

The issue is I think he has a natural caution which means he will struggle to find ways to increase his own budget through on pitch stuff, year on year. I think his preference is for signings to be oven ready - this means you are paying peak value to get them with not much room to move them on after that. Likewise he has no obvious track record of bringing through any youngsters. The caveat is Rotherham may not have had many to bring through, but even with say Jerry Yates you are talking about a now serviceable Championship forward who was loaned out regularly until being sold to a lower level.

It’s why he’d rather give Collins minutes than someone like Brown. All Brown would need to do this season, as an 18 year old, is score 5 goals and you are talking about a player worth 7 figures. But it’s seen as too much of a risk. I’d argue the bigger risk is playing someone who we know isn’t good enough (and probably paying them a fairly handsome sum in the process) than playing someone who might not be good enough, but if they are it’s potentially game changing for the future of the team / club. 

This is not a Warne thing but I have a feeling we lack football smarts above him. 

[Archied]

12 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Sky money gives the Club more than fans attending matches love. 😄

Done both love and can tell you there’s a world of difference, that’s perhaps why I give respect and credence to people like @angieram and others who travel the country to places like barrow on a Tuesday night for the tinpot cup ,

wonder why we start down the road of sarky love comments ,,, hmmm actually I don’t,it’s the usual response of people who’s arguments and negativity don’t have a leg to stand on , plenty others have a different opinion that I listen to with interest , your s not so much 😂

Edited August 30 by Archied

[Archied]

1 minute ago, nottingram said:

My feeling on Warne is that he is broadly excellent at getting teams to perform to about where their budget is. Give him a top end L1 budget, no problem he’ll have you top end L1, give him a relegation Championship budget, he’ll probably get you relegated, I dare say if he was lucky enough to get a top end Championship at any point in his career he’d have a team top end Championship. 

The issue is I think he has a natural caution which means he will struggle to find ways to increase his own budget through on pitch stuff, year on year. I think his preference is for signings to be oven ready - this means you are paying peak value to get them with not much room to move them on after that. Likewise he has no obvious track record of bringing through any youngsters. The caveat is Rotherham may not have had many to bring through, but even with say Jerry Yates you are talking about a now serviceable Championship forward who was loaned out regularly until being sold to a lower level.

It’s why he’d rather give Collins minutes than someone like Brown. All Brown would need to do this season, as an 18 year old, is score 5 goals and you are talking about a player worth 7 figures. But it’s seen as too much of a risk. I’d argue the bigger risk is playing someone who we know isn’t good enough (and probably paying them a fairly handsome sum in the process) than playing someone who might not be good enough, but if they are it’s potentially game changing for the future of the team / club. 

This is not a Warne thing but I have a feeling we lack football smarts above him. 

Again a little unfair , he got Rotherham producing results and achievements above they’re budget 

[Crewton]

11 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Sky money gives the Club more than fans attending matches love. 😄

And the players can't hear you supporting (sic) them on your TV duck.

[duncanjwitham]

12 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

I do struggle to see how managers have a 'ceiling' in all honesty, he was promoted in league one because he had a budget that afforded him to compete towards the top end. In the Championship, he had the smallest budget in the league but as I said: was competitive in each season - two points off safety in one season, four in another. 

Rotherham in their first full season without Warne finished 24 points off safety in the Championship to give a little context.

For me, that's actually an insight to show the job he did at Rotherham was nothing short of excellent. He got the most out of the players he had, he recruited well and kept them on task. All qualities we will need from him this season. 

In this specific case, I think it's basically because there's only so far you can go by trying to out-run and out-work the other team.  There are diminishing returns as you face better opponents.  At Championship level, all of the other teams are going to be pretty fit too, and they're also going to keep the ball better when you lose it, punish your mistakes more often, make less mistakes themselves etc.  You can't just rely on fitness and work to make up for your deficiencies elsewhere, sooner or later you have to work smarter not just harder.

Even at League One level it was visible to some degree.  There were many games where we were completely reliant on good defending (plus a bit of luck) and then NML, Hourihane or whoever magics a goal out of nowhere to get the points.

[Anag Ram]

Spare a thought for Paul today every time a player becomes available 

 

[nottingram]

2 minutes ago, Archied said:

Again a little unfair , he got Rotherham producing results and achievements above they’re budget 

Might be wrong but I’d be surprised if their budget was not top end L1 - they were relegated from the Championship in his first half season or so

[Archied]

11 minutes ago, Archied said:

Ok change it to give everything you’ve got , leave everything on the pitch ect ect ect , im not sick of hearing that , it’s what I want from every player that pulls on our shirt , perhaps we would be better with a manager that tells us he wants the players giving 75% 😂😂😂😂😂,

seen plenty of comments after games saying how disgusting that our players don’t even look like they are trying 

Why the laugh roy , are you saying you don’t want players leaving everything on the pitch ? Warne says that along with other comments regards what players lacked or did well in a game ,

football like many sports has moved on to a point where players have to be extreme athletes with diet and science thrown in before they even have half a chance of competing at any decent level , even the great pep and klopp carry no passengers , every one of they’re players have to give what Warne is asking of ours , yet you seem to know better , you don’t want our manager demanding that of our players , how about our fans , should they be demanding / expecting that of our players ,

you don’t half say some silly stuff in the blind pursuit of your Warne out agenda😂😂😂😂

[Archied]

10 minutes ago, Crewton said:

And the players can't hear you supporting (sic) them on your TV duck.

I’m guessing he ain’t even got sky 😂

[Archied]

10 minutes ago, nottingram said:

Might be wrong but I’d be surprised if their budget was not top end L1 - they were relegated from the Championship in his first half season or so

I may be wrong and perhaps some of the statos on here could give us a better insight but I would be surprised if they were amongst the big fish in his 3 promotion seasons or better than bottom 3 in his championship relegation s

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

I can't believe that anyone would think that (plus wages) would be a competitive budget. And if it was meant to be then you have to question its spending. Oh and of course players want money, why shouldn't they. 

As an ex Senior Union official I got the best deal for my members...so no complaints where players wages are concerned, I understand where DC and SP are coming from.

You can't go out and advertise how much you have to splurge on players and agents and those nasty wages, PW and co will surely know what's what, So where are we, Certainly not the bargain basement I'd hope...my guess is middle to a little lower, So we have to spend wisely and hope that there is some undiscovered talent in the lower leagues and abroad.

If I have any concern it's the loan market, Bringing in players just to fill our squad when we have some capable players in the under 21s.

But that's me, I look from afar, Read on here and watch when we're on TV, Just an old sods opinion ☺️ 

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Sick of hearing the term 'gas out' too.

[Andicis]

29 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

I do struggle to see how managers have a 'ceiling' in all honesty, he was promoted in league one because he had a budget that afforded him to compete towards the top end. In the Championship, he had the smallest budget in the league but as I said: was competitive in each season - two points off safety in one season, four in another. 

Rotherham in their first full season without Warne finished 24 points off safety in the Championship to give a little context.

For me, that's actually an insight to show the job he did at Rotherham was nothing short of excellent. He got the most out of the players he had, he recruited well and kept them on task. All qualities we will need from him this season. 

I'd argue that our style of play does have a ceiling. It's becoming exceedingly rare to see teams playing the way we do higher up in the championship and especially not in the premier league. 

[Andicis]

45 minutes ago, Archied said:

The vital bit your missing is     SOME people

Sure, that was implied. But it's enough of a contingent that you can sense the discontent amongst the fanbase so that shouldn't be ignored.

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, CornwallRam said:

His style of football got us promoted. 

His record in the Championship with Derby County is OK, given the net spend.

His recruitment got us promoted. Judging this season's recruitment as poor is more premature than a 16 year old in Bubbles.

We got promoted despite Warne's poor (overall) recruitment. Only 2 of Warne's signings featured in the top 12 last season. The other 10 being 3 academy players, 1 long term servant, and 6 of Ronsenior's signings. If we could redo last season's signings, I wonder how many we still would have signed. Probably only Vickers, Nelson, Wilson, Nyambe, Adams?

Embleton - 52 mins. Returned to parent club
Gayle - 325 mins. Released
John-Jules - 337 mins. Returned to parent club
Blackett- Taylor - 418 mins. Signed permanently this summer
Vickers - 580 mins. Still 2nd choice
Washington - 673 mins. Trying to offload
Fornah - 801 mins. Offloaded
Waghorn - 879 mins. Released
Elder - 903 mins. First choice because we failed to sign a new LWB
Ward - 1092 mins. 3rd choice RB?
Nyambe - 1394 mins. Potentially a starter
Adams - 1434 mins. Signed permanently this summer
Bradley - 1773 mins. Rumoured to be trying to offload

The signings this summer look to be an improvement. It seems like we've actually put more thought into the type of players we want and how they'll fit in. Even then, perhaps we would have been better off putting the £2.5m for Zetterstrom and Adams to other areas instead?

 

I'm not sure how you can say our record in the league is OK at this point in time. The only metric we have to go off is 3 points from 3 games. Ignoring the impact of points deductions, over the past 10 years, the only teams to stay up with an equal or worse ppg ratio was us (44 points in 20/21, Millwall (44 points, 18/19), Bolton and Reading (43 & 44, 17/18) and Rotherham (46 points, 14/15). 3 games is too soon to judge us on a points basis.

[islandram]

Tbh I’m from a different generation but I fail to understand how we can discuss another new manager when our owner has openly said warne is under no threat. some of the posters on here need to take a long look in mirror if they can get heads out of their keyboard. I think they call them warriors . It may upset some on here but a lot of people don’t support club or players they just whine and whinge before we even sign anyone people are saying not good enough. Perhaps they should remember where we were two ago . that’s my lot I’m off I will support but can’t put up with the crap people post everyday.

[rammieib]

3 minutes ago, islandram said:

Tbh I’m from a different generation but I fail to understand how we can discuss another new manager when our owner has openly said warne is under no threat. some of the posters on here need to take a long look in mirror if they can get heads out of their keyboard. I think they call them warriors . It may upset some on here but a lot of people don’t support club or players they just whine and whinge before we even sign anyone people are saying not good enough. Perhaps they should remember where we were two ago . that’s my lot I’m off I will support but can’t put up with the crap people post everyday.

If you can’t respect both sides of an argument then there isn’t much point being on a forum.

I think more people on here are supporting Warne than are not. I respect that. If I’m not allowed to voice my opinion that I think the football is awful, negative and driving us to bottom six then why have a forum in the first place?

 

[Andicis]

7 minutes ago, islandram said:

Tbh I’m from a different generation but I fail to understand how we can discuss another new manager when our owner has openly said warne is under no threat. some of the posters on here need to take a long look in mirror if they can get heads out of their keyboard. I think they call them warriors . It may upset some on here but a lot of people don’t support club or players they just whine and whinge before we even sign anyone people are saying not good enough. Perhaps they should remember where we were two ago . that’s my lot I’m off I will support but can’t put up with the crap people post everyday.

Log off then if you don't want to read the posts. Forcing yourself to read something so that you can moan and whine about those posts and how everyone else is moaning and whining is peak irony. 

It's a forum for discussion. We don't all have to agree with David Clowes.