No midfield control again…

[Caerphilly Ram]

1 minute ago, Gary Teale said:

Playing devils advocate but didnt we just have a run of 10 odd wins in 12 since he moved CH into the deeper role? Have injuries and people going to the AFCON played any part in our last few performances? 

 

PS I dont like the style of football we play at all and would personally like us to play through midfield where I believe we have 2 of the most technical players in the division, but we cant argue the style has been effective at gets points on the board. We are 3 points off top after a slow start. 

This is part of my assessment. The squad is and has been depleted the last few weeks and I think it’s partly to blame for the dip in performance if not result. 

Warne’s approach is get it forward fast, so we do lack control in games, but it was less concerning when we had momentum and the bodies to cope with it during that run, plus a very solid back 5 as the foundation. I don’t see it as bleak as others, my frustration with it lately is his inability to adapt to the temporary restrictions within the squad…but maybe he’s not felt he could. 

[strawhillram]

19 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Doesn't leave a lot of scope for strengths...

His strengths are:

 talking a lot

 trying to be a best mate of everybody

 drinking lots of coffee

[Oldben]

https://the72.co.uk/2024/01/29/the-cost-free-key-to-solving-derby-county-midfield-conundrum/

Good article

[DCFC Kicks]

On 26/01/2024 at 21:23, Jram said:

Nyambe, Vickers, Elder haven’t been bad but I accept the point

 He does in fairness seem to have got the best from the likes of NML and Collins as well

I don't think Warnes got the best out of NML at all. He's just that good of a player at this level that he still performs well. He's been made to play striker and wing back at times. 

[Jram]

6 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

I don't think Warnes got the best out of NML at all. He's just that good of a player at this level that he still performs well. He's been made to play striker and wing back at times. 

Maybe… in fairness to Warne, since he’s played him as an out and out attacker, he’s been exceptional. Last year, he played wing back before Warne got the players he wanted and we had figured out were better suited to a back 4

[Chris_Martin]

9 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

This is part of my assessment. The squad is and has been depleted the last few weeks and I think it’s partly to blame for the dip in performance if not result. 

Warne’s approach is get it forward fast, so we do lack control in games, but it was less concerning when we had momentum and the bodies to cope with it during that run, plus a very solid back 5 as the foundation. I don’t see it as bleak as others, my frustration with it lately is his inability to adapt to the temporary restrictions within the squad…but maybe he’s not felt he could. 

But we have only really lost Nyambe from the team over that time. Forsyth has missed a couple but Elder covered for him quite well. 

Even without those 2 players we still have a far superior squad to our opposition each game

Your right, we do lack control. The fact that we got away with it for 10 or so games is irrelevant for me. Look what happens as soon as we come up against a decent side like peterborough. How will we cope in the championship with this approach when every single team will be at least at peterborough's level. 

[DCFC Kicks]

1 hour ago, Jram said:

Maybe… in fairness to Warne, since he’s played him as an out and out attacker, he’s been exceptional. Last year, he played wing back before Warne got the players he wanted and we had figured out were better suited to a back 4

Of course he's better as an out and out attacker because that's what he is. Why would anyone play him in wing back? Thank Rosenior we signed him, because Warne could never could.

Its a shame Warne only realised we were better suited to a back 4 after he signed all those players for his back 3 formation 

 

[Caerphilly Ram]

12 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

But we have only really lost Nyambe from the team over that time. Forsyth has missed a couple but Elder covered for him quite well. 

Even without those 2 players we still have a far superior squad to our opposition each game

Your right, we do lack control. The fact that we got away with it for 10 or so games is irrelevant for me. Look what happens as soon as we come up against a decent side like peterborough. How will we cope in the championship with this approach when every single team will be at least at peterborough's level. 

As I’ve said many many times, I’m not thinking ahead to the championship as tomorrow is promised to no one. I am content watching the team this season, scoring more than it concedes and winning more than it loses. That’s been the case for the majority of the season thus far, that’s my opinion, that’s my stance and I’m entitled to it regardless of what anyone else within the fan base thinks or feels. If you don’t find a nice winning run in the middle of the season as relevant to the team doing well then that’s up to you I guess, I don’t share that view. 

[DCFC Kicks]

16 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

But we have only really lost Nyambe from the team over that time. Forsyth has missed a couple but Elder covered for him quite well. 

Even without those 2 players we still have a far superior squad to our opposition each game

Your right, we do lack control. The fact that we got away with it for 10 or so games is irrelevant for me. Look what happens as soon as we come up against a decent side like peterborough. How will we cope in the championship with this approach when every single team will be at least at peterborough's level. 

I don't get what people are seeing with Elder. He's looked terrible every time I've seen him. I didn't realise how important Forsyth was before he got injured.

[Caerphilly Ram]

24 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

But we have only really lost Nyambe from the team over that time. Forsyth has missed a couple but Elder covered for him quite well. 

Even without those 2 players we still have a far superior squad to our opposition each game

Your right, we do lack control. The fact that we got away with it for 10 or so games is irrelevant for me. Look what happens as soon as we come up against a decent side like peterborough. How will we cope in the championship with this approach when every single team will be at least at peterborough's level. 

Nyambe has missed 5 of the last 5 games, Forsyth 4 of the last 5, Fornah was unavailable for 2 of the last 5. 
Add those onto the ongoing injuries to Washington, Waghorn, Smith, Rooney and the additional injury to TJJ the other night and it’s possible to see how the squad is stretched and how Warne (as I suggested in the post you replied to) could perhaps have struggled changing the side even if he’d wanted to over the last few weeks. The counter argument is he should have found a way, maybe leant on the academy players more, perhaps recruited better in the summer anyway, none of which I’m denying either. Just trying to promote a little bit of objectivity in the face of yet more partisan dispute on the forum. 

[Comrade 86]

Simple fix. Get @B4’s Sister back on match threads.

You're welcome x

[Jram]

6 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said:

Of course he's better as an out and out attacker because that's what he is. Why would anyone play him in wing back? Thank Rosenior we signed him, because Warne could never could.

Its a shame Warne only realised we were better suited to a back 4 after he signed all those players for his back 3 formation 

 

No reason warne couldn’t have signed him 🤔 

I actually rate that Warne adapted and realised his stated aim of playing a back 3 wasn’t the best option. He's managed to adapt many of his signings to a back 4 so hats off to him 

I can’t believe how often I find myself having to defend Warne on this forum. It genuinely baffles given our position 

[Archied]

On 26/01/2024 at 13:04, Chris_Martin said:

paul, is that you ???

Liam. Is that you?

[Jourdan]

7 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said:

Of course he's better as an out and out attacker because that's what he is. Why would anyone play him in wing back? Thank Rosenior we signed him, because Warne could never could.

Its a shame Warne only realised we were better suited to a back 4 after he signed all those players for his back 3 formation 

 

Welcome back. A few less than desirable results and your anti-Warne takes are in full swing.

So let’s get this straight, NML has just signed a long-term new contract at the club.

NML is also on for one of the most productive seasons of his career.

But of course none of that is to do with Warne, it’s all in spite of Warne…

 

[angieram]

Is it possible to be concerned about a lack of midfield control despite winning games? 

I suppose the theory is to blitz the opposition early with our superior attack, then introduce that control through the substitutions to see the game out. 

If we don't score early this puts increasing pressure on the midfield, who are more and more stretched as the game wears on. 

We (and most of our players) are used to a midfield three, and I feel it would get the most out of the players at our disposal. The crowd noise seems to be suggesting that, and I think there's enough evidence from performance levels on the pitch that the players think it too. 

Will Warne give way to that pressure? I'm not so sure.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, angieram said:

Will Warne give way to that pressure? I'm not so sure.

Three at the back allows more in midfield, I think he might start with it.

[Jourdan]

7 hours ago, Chris_Martin said:

But we have only really lost Nyambe from the team over that time. Forsyth has missed a couple but Elder covered for him quite well. 

Even without those 2 players we still have a far superior squad to our opposition each game

Your right, we do lack control. The fact that we got away with it for 10 or so games is irrelevant for me. Look what happens as soon as we come up against a decent side like peterborough. How will we cope in the championship with this approach when every single team will be at least at peterborough's level. 

Didn’t we beat Peterborough earlier in the season, scoring 4 goals in the process?

Were we not 2-1 up and leading twice v Peterborough before two defensive lapses cost us the most recent game, the kind of defensive lapses that have nothing to do with a tactical approach?

How will we cope in the Championship? Do you not think we’ll look to invest and add to the squad? Do you not think with contracts running down that the make up of the squad will also change?

Do you not think Warne and the backroom staff will do their homework and try to understand the best approach to take and make the necessary adjustments?

Do you not think crucially we’ll have better players available to us which will also allow us to adopt a different tactical approach more easily or perhaps even improve and refine the desired one?

If we get promoted to the Championship, there will be so much scope for change. But sure, please continue doom mongering.

[angieram]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Three at the back allows more in midfield, I think he might start with it.

I thought we played better when we went to three at the back on Saturday. Bradley was effective and Wilson immediately looked stronger with the confidence of knowing he had cover behind him. 

But Cheltenham aren't the most attacking of sides and I've been less than impressed with how the back three have worked together in previous outings. Especially at opposition set pieces. 

On balance, I would see how much difference Nyambe's return makes to the lineup before I made a change to a back three, and at least give Sibley a couple of further games at left back before his inevitable re-dropping. I thought he was one of our brighter players on Saturday (despite the odd mistake in a position he hasn't really played much of for the best part of a season.)

[Jourdan]

18 minutes ago, angieram said:

Is it possible to be concerned about a lack of midfield control despite winning games? 

I suppose the theory is to blitz the opposition early with our superior attack, then introduce that control through the substitutions to see the game out. 

If we don't score early this puts increasing pressure on the midfield, who are more and more stretched as the game wears on. 

We (and most of our players) are used to a midfield three, and I feel it would get the most out of the players at our disposal. The crowd noise seems to be suggesting that, and I think there's enough evidence from performance levels on the pitch that the players think it too. 

Will Warne give way to that pressure? I'm not so sure.

I think he has looked at the midfield three before and there were games even with a three in a midfield where we struggled to control proceedings.

I don’t think he is wedded to a two or a three. He (probably) recognises both have their advantages and disadvantages.

I think the bigger issue is a lack of players he can trust to do a job consistently. He comes across as a manager who really needs players he can trust to build the core of the side around.

If he sees that Bird and Hourihane isn’t working, that is the only reason he would persist with it surely?

Hopefully Fornah, Thompson or one of the academy boys steps in, grabs their chance and makes it impossible for him not to trust them moving forwards.

 

[MadAmster]

39 minutes ago, angieram said:

I thought we played better when we went to three at the back on Saturday. Bradley was effective and Wilson immediately looked stronger with the confidence of knowing he had cover behind him. 

But Cheltenham aren't the most attacking of sides and I've been less than impressed with how the back three have worked together in previous outings. Especially at opposition set pieces. 

On balance, I would see how much difference Nyambe's return makes to the lineup before I made a change to a back three, and at least give Sibley a couple of further games at left back before his inevitable re-dropping. I thought he was one of our brighter players on Saturday (despite the odd mistake in a position he hasn't really played much of for the best part of a season.)

We had 12 shots to their 8 but they had 3 on target to our 2. The game before at Bolton they had 18 shots to Bolton's 8 and 6 on target to Bolton's 3. Your thoughts are correct with regard to how they started the season, however, since Darrell Clarke took over at the end of September they have done better than their position would suggest and do attack more