No midfield control again…

[MadAmster]

8 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said:

Of course he's better as an out and out attacker because that's what he is. Why would anyone play him in wing back? Thank Rosenior we signed him, because Warne could never could.

Its a shame Warne only realised we were better suited to a back 4 after he signed all those players for his back 3 formation 

 

Rosenior signed the players he signed intending to play them in certain roles. NML had been used as a wing back at Wendy. He refused to sign a new contract as they still wanted him as a WB and he didn't want to play there. Why did he sign for Rosenior? My guess is that LR told him he wanted to play him as a winger. Then we had the managerial change and PW started to play him as a WB. Fortunately, he now sees him as the attacking player he is and plays him, mainly, in attacking roles.

Had PW been in charge in the summer of 2022, I think he would probably have told NML he'd be used as a WB and he wouldn't have signed for Derby. Just my opinion. 

[Caerphilly Ram]

1 hour ago, angieram said:

Is it possible to be concerned about a lack of midfield control despite winning games? 

I suppose the theory is to blitz the opposition early with our superior attack, then introduce that control through the substitutions to see the game out. 

If we don't score early this puts increasing pressure on the midfield, who are more and more stretched as the game wears on. 

We (and most of our players) are used to a midfield three, and I feel it would get the most out of the players at our disposal. The crowd noise seems to be suggesting that, and I think there's enough evidence from performance levels on the pitch that the players think it too. 

Will Warne give way to that pressure? I'm not so sure.

To answer your initial question yes it is possible to be concerned about a lack of midfield control despite winning games.

I agree that Warne does seem to set us up with this idea of “blowing teams away”, and when it happens I find it pretty entertaining, but would also like a bit more control in games. It’s the ongoing frustration I have with Warne alongside his in match subs, we could surely manage to do both with a subtle tweak is my thinking.
As to your other question as to if Warne will give way to that pressure, I’d agree with you answer in that I’m not sure he will, he seems wedded to his approach with our current options, which is why I mentioned the squad being stretched thin in another post as possible mitigation, though it is more than likely just his way…. I’m intrigued how we compare to his Rotherham sides who did seem to have some ability and fight in midfield. 

[May Contain Nuts]

We spent the last couple of months of one season playing, and spent all summer and pre-season preparing and signing players for one system, but when it came to playing competitive games we were pretty much forced (the alternative doesn't bear thinking about) to change the system because of a combination of injuries and a number of the players, both new signings and existing players, looking terribly uncomfortable playing it.

...and we're supposed to look at this and turn it into praise for the manager's adaptability?

Can someone pass me the Valium because that just ain't gonna come naturally!

[S8TY]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

I think he has looked at the midfield three before and there were games even with a three in a midfield where we struggled to control proceedings.

I don’t think he is wedded to a two or a three. He (probably) recognises both have their advantages and disadvantages.

I think the bigger issue is a lack of players he can trust to do a job consistently. He comes across as a manager who really needs players he can trust to build the core of the side around.

If he sees that Bird and Hourihane isn’t working, that is the only reason he would persist with it surely?

Hopefully Fornah, Thompson or one of the academy boys steps in, grabs their chance and makes it impossible for him not to trust them moving forwards.

 

You make Warne out to be some kind of messiah with lots of tactical nous, I really don't think he thinks having control of the game in midfield is as important as a lot of fans see it 

[Archied]

1 hour ago, May Contain Nuts said:

We spent the last couple of months of one season playing, and spent all summer and pre-season preparing and signing players for one system, but when it came to playing competitive games we were pretty much forced (the alternative doesn't bear thinking about) to change the system because of a combination of injuries and a number of the players, both new signings and existing players, looking terribly uncomfortable playing it.

...and we're supposed to look at this and turn it into praise for the manager's adaptability?

Can someone pass me the Valium because that just ain't gonna come naturally!

It is possible that warne and many other managers for that matter want to be able to change systems in game or for certain games and even to get through injuries which occur during long season , perhaps this buying players for one system is only in the heads of some fans , it is possible and sensible to look at a player and believe he’s better as a wing back for instance but feel you see enough in him to believe he’s quite capable of doing a decent job in a flat 4 ,

im a bit lost on this whole 3 at the back thing from certain posters who seem to switch between saying it’s terrible but blind stupid warne will always revert to it then saying we need to go that route , certainly 3  at the back will give us a bit more midfield man power, the current stick is wtf he’s bringing Bradley on , this swap has been pretty effective quite often in games ,

im ok to let warne get on with it , it’s his job on the line if he can’t get results that get us up🤷🏻‍♂️

[DCFC Kicks]

6 hours ago, Jram said:

No reason warne couldn’t have signed him 🤔 

I actually rate that Warne adapted and realised his stated aim of playing a back 3 wasn’t the best option. He's managed to adapt many of his signings to a back 4 so hats off to him 

I can’t believe how often I find myself having to defend Warne on this forum. It genuinely baffles given our position 

 

I don't know how you can spin his back 3 formation failing as a positive. I wouldn't say Ward, Elder or Wilson have adapted that well.

[Jram]

3 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

 

I don't know how you can spin his back 3 formation failing as a positive. I wouldn't say Ward, Elder or Wilson have adapted that well.

In fairness, I don’t actually know if I believe that’s the reason. I just think luck turned, injuries improved and the players got fitter. Certainly can’t argue that we’ve had exceptional results in recent months 

I think it’s a bit silly to say Wilson hasn’t adapted. He’s been really good. Elder has been good since he’s had a run in the team 

Ward has been disappointing and clearly Warne thinks so too. Can’t get them all right I suppose 

 

[DCFC Kicks]

5 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Welcome back. A few less than desirable results and your anti-Warne takes are in full swing.

So let’s get this straight, NML has just signed a long-term new contract at the club.

NML is also on for one of the most productive seasons of his career.

But of course none of that is to do with Warne, it’s all in spite of Warne…

 

He's had a productive season because he's one of our only attacking outlets and the team is set up to feed him the ball as much as possible. At times he's been our only attacking outlet. There was periods earlier in the season where our only tactic was pass it to him and hope he does something.

[DCFC Kicks]

4 hours ago, MadAmster said:

Rosenior signed the players he signed intending to play them in certain roles. NML had been used as a wing back at Wendy. He refused to sign a new contract as they still wanted him as a WB and he didn't want to play there. Why did he sign for Rosenior? My guess is that LR told him he wanted to play him as a winger. Then we had the managerial change and PW started to play him as a WB. Fortunately, he now sees him as the attacking player he is and plays him, mainly, in attacking roles.

Had PW been in charge in the summer of 2022, I think he would probably have told NML he'd be used as a WB and he wouldn't have signed for Derby. Just my opinion. 

I'd argue a similar thing about Hourihane. It's a trend on here for all the Warne fans to blame Hourihane when he's being asked to be a player he isn't. His abilities have been wasted in my opinion.

 

[May Contain Nuts]

27 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

I'd argue a similar thing about Hourihane. It's a trend on here for all the Warne fans to blame Hourihane when he's being asked to be a player he isn't. His abilities have been wasted in my opinion.

 

Someone criticised him in another thread for playing too deep recently, standing too close to the centre backs and waving his arms around telling others what to do (for reference, this is not a quote) when a few games ago / earlier in the season he was getting about the pitch more.

I'm not sure it crossed their mind that maybe, 25+ games into a season where he's being asked to cover so much of the midfield, it might be because he needs a rest?

Anyway, for reference - or really just because I quite like like the way these things look - here's CH's season heatmap. Busy boy.

Edited January 30 by May Contain Nuts

[Caerphilly Ram]

3 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

Someone criticised him in another thread for playing too deep recently, standing too close to the centre backs and waving his arms around telling others what to do (for reference, this is not a quote) when a few games ago / earlier in the season he was getting about the pitch more.

I'm not sure it crossed their mind that maybe, 25+ games into a season where he's being asked to cover so much of that it might be because he needs a rest?

Anyway, for reference - or really just because I quite like like the way these things look - here's CH's season heatmap. Busy boy.

The lazy so and so seems to spend loads of time hanging about by the corner flags! 

[DCFC Kicks]

15 minutes ago, Jram said:

In fairness, I don’t actually know if I believe that’s the reason. I just think luck turned, injuries improved and the players got fitter. Certainly can’t argue that we’ve had exceptional results in recent months 

I think it’s a bit silly to say Wilson hasn’t adapted. He’s been really good. Elder has been good since he’s had a run in the team 

Ward has been disappointing and clearly Warne thinks so too. Can’t get them all right I suppose 

 

Results have been good, but there isn't any fixture that I wouldn't expect us to win, apart from Oxford away possibly. 

I disagree that Wilson and Elder have been good. Wilson has 1 goal and 1 assist which isn't good considering he's now meant to be a winger. His shooting is terrible for a winger as well. Elders made numerous mistakes which have led to goals and his general defending is poor.

Who's fault is it that Ward has been disappointing? his crossing would a huge weapon if used correctly. 

 

[DCFC Kicks]

6 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

Someone criticised him in another thread for playing too deep recently, standing too close to the centre backs and waving his arms around telling others what to do (for reference, this is not a quote) when a few games ago / earlier in the season he was getting about the pitch more.

I'm not sure it crossed their mind that maybe, 25+ games into a season where he's being asked to cover so much of that it might be because he needs a rest?

Anyway, for reference - or really just because I quite like like the way these things look - here's CH's season heatmap. Busy boy.

People are criticising him for not being strong enough in tackling etc. He's never been a good tackler, so why is he being asked to do it? He shouldn't even be running around this much. Isn't that what Fornah was bought for?

The worst thing about that heat map is the place you want him to be the most is the place he is the least. That being around the D shooting.

[B4’s Sister]

Going to say something footbally 😬 I’ve just watched the goals back from Oxford away. When I first saw Forsyth’s goal I can remember being pleased that someone had finally positioned themselves to open up an opportunity. I’ve found Derby quite rigid this season, don’t know whether there’s a strategy that isn’t quite working or something else, but the connection just isn’t there. They seem to be very reactive rather than proactive. I’ve watched NML and Wilson make some good runs forward only to have nobody there in time to support them and it’s frustrating match in match out to see wasted opportunities. 

[Comrade 86]

22 minutes ago, B4’s Sister said:

Going to say something footbally 😬 I’ve just watched the goals back from Oxford away. When I first saw Forsyth’s goal I can remember being pleased that someone had finally positioned themselves to open up an opportunity. I’ve found Derby quite rigid this season, don’t know whether there’s a strategy that isn’t quite working or something else, but the connection just isn’t there. They seem to be very reactive rather than proactive. I’ve watched NML and Wilson make some good runs forward only to have nobody there in time to support them and it’s frustrating match in match out to see wasted opportunities. 

Don't you start! 😋

[DiggerB]

1 hour ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

The lazy so and so seems to spend loads of time hanging about by the corner flags! 

He’s waiting for Admin to announce a new signing!

[DiggerB]

1 hour ago, DCFC Kicks said:

The worst thing about that heat map is the place you want him to be the most is the place he is the least. That being around the D shooting.

Yep, why he even ends up beyond the defensive side of the centre circle is beyond me?

[duncanjwitham]

3 minutes ago, DiggerB said:

Yep, why he even ends up beyond the defensive side of the centre circle is beyond me?

Because that's what Warne means by "gas out" football.  He wants those 2 midfielders sitting protecting the back 4 and also pushing right up to support the attack.  And given how quickly we turn possession over, they basically spend the whole game running between the 2 boxes.  Which is why we look so knackered all the time, and why we look so open in midfield when we get counter-attacked on.

[DiggerB]

1 minute ago, duncanjwitham said:

Because that's what Warne means by "gas out" football.  He wants those 2 midfielders sitting protecting the back 4 and also pushing right up to support the attack.  And given how quickly we turn possession over, they basically spend the whole game running between the 2 boxes.  Which is why we look so knackered all the time, and why we look so open in midfield when we get counter-attacked on.

[Spanish]

8 hours ago, angieram said:

I thought we played better when we went to three at the back on Saturday. Bradley was effective and Wilson immediately looked stronger with the confidence of knowing he had cover behind him. 

But Cheltenham aren't the most attacking of sides and I've been less than impressed with how the back three have worked together in previous outings. Especially at opposition set pieces. 

On balance, I would see how much difference Nyambe's return makes to the lineup before I made a change to a back three, and at least give Sibley a couple of further games at left back before his inevitable re-dropping. I thought he was one of our brighter players on Saturday (despite the odd mistake in a position he hasn't really played much of for the best part of a season.)

Agreed that was the first time 3 and the back seemed to work but like you say it was just not cheltenham.  I actually thought it worked due to our captain being withdrawn and the consequential appearance of Bird who was any anonymous before then