Derby vs Port Vale

[DavesaRam]

18 hours ago, valakari said:

We may have avoided all this if only we had beaten Aston Villa in the play off final..just a Kelle Roos away from the the Premier League..and then non of the administration and relegation would have happened..oh how history could have been re-written 😪

Or: we were one team selection of the right strikers to start the match away from the Premier League. Instead Lampard had us playing for nearly 70 minutes with two strikers who couldn’t hit a barn foot with an entire lorry load of banjos. Now why would he do that?

Edited November 30, 2023 by DavesaRam

[DavesaRam]

16 hours ago, Returning ram said:

I think it's just building up to blame Warne for the recruitment during Mels period.....must be one of few things that's not been levelled at him recently.

 Naahhh. That was Richard Keogh’s fault!

[G STAR RAM]

7 hours ago, DavesaRam said:

Or: we were one team selection of the right strikers to start the match away from the Premier League. Instead Lampard had us playing for nearly 70 minutes with two strikers who couldn’t hit a barn foot with an entire lorry load of banjos. Now why would he do that?

Because our other strikers weren't match fit?

[jono]

On 29/11/2023 at 18:47, Bris Vegas said:

The EFL only enforced said rules because Derby under MM were trying to find loopholes around FFP because we had overspent and had gone beyond the accepted profit and sustainability rules. And the reason we went over is because of bad recruitment. Of course the points deduction got us relegated. But there were a series of events that led to the points deduction.

And at the very top of the tree is poor recruitment.

All the events lead back to the summer of 2015/16. We had a squad of players with a wage bill of around 18 million per year and had finished 3rd and 8th the previous two years. Many recognised the reason we fell away in 2014/15 was a lack of cover for key positions such as Martin, Thorne/Mascarell/Eustace and out wide to improve on the ageing Ward after injuries.

So we decided to then spend 25 million plus that summer on a new GK (Carson), RB/Utility (Baird), CB (Shackell and Pearce), midfield (Butterfield and Johnson, neither being holding midfielders), a wide player (Ince) who was probably the only player identified to fit the role needed, and two ST (Bent and Weimann) when we already had Martin and they were completely different moulds.

9 players signed. 25 million spent. And only one of those actually fit into our team and could be deemed an upgrade. That is woeful recruitment and started the trainwreck which culminated in our relegation to League One.

 

No. We were relegated because we had points deducted. We weren’t relegated because we didn’t win enough games/get enough points. 
 

Bris, we can have a cause and effect argument all day long and I am not for one minute excusing Mel Morris and the numerous financial “experts” he had clinging to his coat tails or indeed the numerous over priced goods we bought, but for “the good of the game” we were made an example of and relegation was part of that political process. Just saying it’s all our fault because we bought the wrong players for the wrong price is naive. 

[DavesaRam]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Because our other strikers weren't match fit?

None of them were. But two of them were scoring freely, and two of them weren’t. So we gave the two who struggled to score nearly 90% of the match, even after we had gone behind and needed goals. When Marriott and Waghorn did finally come on Villa were getting spare clean shorts ready, and we scored within minutes. But they were brought on wwwaaaaayyyyy too late and ran out of time.

[Steve How Hard?]

17 minutes ago, jono said:

No. We were relegated because we had points deducted. We weren’t relegated because we didn’t win enough games/get enough points. 
 

Bris, we can have a cause and effect argument all day long and I am not for one minute excusing Mel Morris and the numerous financial “experts” he had clinging to his coat tails or indeed the numerous over priced goods we bought, but for “the good of the game” we were made an example of and relegation was part of that political process. Just saying it’s all our fault because we bought the wrong players for the wrong price is naive. 

Nailed it with that part of your sentence @jono. 👏 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

16 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

None of them were. But two of them were scoring freely, and two of them weren’t. So we gave the two who struggled to score nearly 90% of the match, even after we had gone behind and needed goals. When Marriott and Waghorn did finally come on Villa were getting spare clean shorts ready, and we scored within minutes. But they were brought on wwwaaaaayyyyy too late and ran out of time.

Mings certainly shat his when Marriott started playing of his shoulder.  Scored one and can still see that other shot being cleared off the line followed by his 4 minutes of pretend cramp the ref let him run down the clock with.  Left it too late.

[Carl Sagan]

On 29/11/2023 at 15:42, Caerphilly Ram said:

Lovely angle of the winner 😊 

 

On 29/11/2023 at 20:27, Steve Buckley’s Dog said:

But apart from that, it was a well taken goal wasn’t it! 

One more go on this. This goal actually gives me huge hope for the season. I love the pressing before it, that Port Vale were never able to get the ball out of defence. Then the pass from NML is superb.  But the finish from JJ is such class, never in doubt, ultra skillful. The chance came, he'd put himself in the right place and he took it majestically. Lots and lots of ifs, but if we keep him, and can keep him fit, I think it points to a splendid second half of the campaign.

[Bris Vegas]

2 hours ago, jono said:

No. We were relegated because we had points deducted. We weren’t relegated because we didn’t win enough games/get enough points. 
 

Bris, we can have a cause and effect argument all day long and I am not for one minute excusing Mel Morris and the numerous financial “experts” he had clinging to his coat tails or indeed the numerous over priced goods we bought, but for “the good of the game” we were made an example of and relegation was part of that political process. Just saying it’s all our fault because we bought the wrong players for the wrong price is naive. 

I’m not denying that the EFL vendetta and points deduction relegated us. But they were consequences of Mel’s shenanigans while he was in charge.

The entire mess was created by Mel’s ridiculous spending on overpaid, ageing players with no re-sale value.

Even if we had survived the 2021/22 season, we were still in a huge mess and it’s questionable where we would have gone from there.

You look at the Championship now and there are fresh sides like Plymouth and Coventry who are bottom six. It’s quite possible we would have gone down in 2022/23 or this season anyway as QPR and Sheffield Wednesday look buried already.

[DerbyAleMan]

11 hours ago, Returning ram said:

Pretty sure MM would have lost enough money on managers he sacked to compensate for another season or two funding. Stick with the same manager for longer periods and give them the opportunity to succeed and you don't have a bigger turnover in players.

It was a flawed business plan from MM which has resulted in us being on this league, along with his arrogance not to play within the rules.

Yes mate, Morris was a banker, he gave a few sauages out, to keep some on side. But he is our worse owner in history and lied to everyone, was never a Rams fan, at john port school, he wore a Liverpool scarf every winter. Once A Ram Always A Ram. 

[Archied]

5 hours ago, DerbyAleMan said:

Yes mate, Morris was a banker, he gave a few sauages out, to keep some on side. But he is our worse owner in history and lied to everyone, was never a Rams fan, at john port school, he wore a Liverpool scarf every winter. Once A Ram Always A Ram. 

So not happy with our hubcaps he nicked the ducking stadium as well 🤷🏻‍♂️

[DavesaRam]

8 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

I’m not denying that the EFL vendetta and points deduction relegated us. But they were consequences of Mel’s shenanigans while he was in charge.

The entire mess was created by Mel’s ridiculous spending on overpaid, ageing players with no re-sale value.

Even if we had survived the 2021/22 season, we were still in a huge mess and it’s questionable where we would have gone from there.

You look at the Championship now and there are fresh sides like Plymouth and Coventry who are bottom six. It’s quite possible we would have gone down in 2022/23 or this season anyway as QPR and Sheffield Wednesday look buried already.

It is all down to Mel, but the root cause isn’t his bending the rules, or his spending. It goes all the way back to when the EFL made a gigantic balls-up of the TV deal when, having seen the Premiership get the caviar, they accepted yesterdays chips and pork scratchings. Mel and the then owner of Leeds set about creating a breakaway league, and even tried to arrange a friendly match between the clubs to launch the campaign. It came to nothing, but the ghoombars at the EFL made a note in their equivalent of Jack Charlton’s little black book ……… and waited. And when McGuire poked his snotty little nose in to our affairs, they pounced.

We would almost certainly have done the overspending, simply because Mel is Mel, but it wouldn’t have reached the levels it did if it wasn’t for the EFL’s lust for blood. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by DavesaRam

[On the Ram Page]

I think everyone has valid points here.

Mel Morris was Public Enemy No 1 with the EFL because of his constant criticisms.

He wasted an incredible amount of money (mainly his own) on chasing the his Premiership dreams by sacking managers at will and funding some ridiculous transfer fees and subsequent wages. I think it was stated he was bailing out the Club to the tune of £2m a month.

Because of of overspending we fell foul of FFP and no doubt tried to avoid penalties by cooking up ways to present our Profit & Loss, Balance Sheets in a favourable light (even if not technically wrong).

The points deduction for FFP would have relegated us anyway but the fact Mr Morris put us into Administration made the situation hopeless.

The stewardship of the Club was crazy - Mel wanting his own success and fans demanding a return to Premiership football. A recipe for disaster.

Thank goodness we are now in the hands of a sensible and businesslike owner who is determined that the club will be run properly, despite still the clamour from some fans to spend money. He will know what can be spent prudently. The days of shopping managers at the drop of a hat and spending huge fees on players are over, at least for a few years.

 

[AutoWindscreens]

On 29/11/2023 at 18:47, Bris Vegas said:

The EFL only enforced said rules because Derby under MM were trying to find loopholes around FFP because we had overspent and had gone beyond the accepted profit and sustainability rules. And the reason we went over is because of bad recruitment. Of course the points deduction got us relegated. But there were a series of events that led to the points deduction.

And at the very top of the tree is poor recruitment.

All the events lead back to the summer of 2015/16. We had a squad of players with a wage bill of around 18 million per year and had finished 3rd and 8th the previous two years. Many recognised the reason we fell away in 2014/15 was a lack of cover for key positions such as Martin, Thorne/Mascarell/Eustace and out wide to improve on the ageing Ward after injuries.

So we decided to then spend 25 million plus that summer on a new GK (Carson), RB/Utility (Baird), CB (Shackell and Pearce), midfield (Butterfield and Johnson, neither being holding midfielders), a wide player (Ince) who was probably the only player identified to fit the role needed, and two ST (Bent and Weimann) when we already had Martin and they were completely different moulds.

9 players signed. 25 million spent. And only one of those actually fit into our team and could be deemed an upgrade. That is woeful recruitment and started the trainwreck which culminated in our relegation to League One.

 

100% agree.

Preach, brother!

(Although I am almost prepared to forgive it all for Bent's goal against Wolves)

[Blondest Goat]

15 hours ago, jono said:

No. We were relegated because we had points deducted. We weren’t relegated because we didn’t win enough games/get enough points. 

We'd have been relegated the season before had it not been for Wednesdays points deduction.  

[jimtastic56]

Mel said he lost £200 million . The £10 million on Beilik was the straw that broke the camels back. 

[jono]

7 hours ago, jimtastic56 said:

Mel said he lost £200 million . The £10 million on Beilik was the straw that broke the camels back. 

Doubt that. Oh yes 200 million was spent but one suspects that was split between Mel, money lenders, HMRC, creditors and DC. Morris never spent 200 mil of his own money !

[uttoxram75]

23 hours ago, DerbyAleMan said:

Yes mate, Morris was a banker, he gave a few sauages out, to keep some on side. But he is our worse owner in history and lied to everyone, was never a Rams fan, at john port school, he wore a Liverpool scarf every winter. Once A Ram Always A Ram. 

I only met him once and he told me stories of away games at Stoke in the 1970's where he had to run for his life through the canal that ran behind the Victoria Ground. I had seen that happen and had similar experiences there so had no reason to doubt him at the time. I have heard since that he wasn't a massive fan but went with his mates who were. Heard the Liverpool stuff as well but can't comment as apparently, i had a George Best poster when i was 7. 

[DerbyAleMan]

13 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

I only met him once and he told me stories of away games at Stoke in the 1970's where he had to run for his life through the canal that ran behind the Victoria Ground. I had seen that happen and had similar experiences there so had no reason to doubt him at the time. I have heard since that he wasn't a massive fan but went with his mates who were. Heard the Liverpool stuff as well but can't comment as apparently, i had a George Best poster when i was 7. 

Went to Stoke in 86 I think, we won I think 1-0, in our promotion season under Mr Cox, it was lively inside and outside the  stadium that day, thats for sure.