Derby vs Port Vale

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, IslandExile said:

Yeah. Some of us are on the sofa ("settee" in pre - US days).

The more Affluent of us have a Leather Corner Suite 😁

[Ram-Alf]

Winning is a great feeling 👍

[Ellafella]

56 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Imagine if Wigan had a player called Wai Ting....

Love these high-brow esoteric references. 

[Caerphilly Ram]

41 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Yes we are. We are in League One because of recruitment. It is the most important aspect in football.

We got hit with points deductions and Mel put us in admin because of poor recruitment.

If you can’t see that, then you have your head buried in the ground.

How can you reduce down to that one single factor though and not consider all the other variables?

I’ve found in my own limited experience of the world that very few scenarios can be reduced to simple binary or singular explanations. Especially one as complex as our last few years. So yes, recruitment is a factor, but not the only one. 

[Ellafella]

https://t.co/yjM6SI1TVF

Edited November 29, 2023 by Ellafella

[Ellafella]

Love this ^ . You even can spot me …”We’re on our wayyyy! We’re on our way…”

[Bris Vegas]

16 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

How can you reduce down to that one single factor though and not consider all the other variables?

I’ve found in my own limited experience of the world that very few scenarios can be reduced to simple binary or singular explanations. Especially one as complex as our last few years. So yes, recruitment is a factor, but not the only one. 

Recruitment is the primary factor. Obviously coaching plays a part, but we have seen poor managers like Nigel Pearson achieve success with quality players. 

The reason why Derby are in the 3rd division and not the PL is down to recruitment.

All other financial incomings and outgoings are fairly constant.

The biggest money movers is transfers in, transfers out and wages. Broadcasting deals, sponsors and matchday revenue play a part of course but they ultimately depend on what division the team is in, which is a reflection of the players on the pitch which is a reflection of recruitment.

Derby are in the third division because Mel recruited poorly. The team got worse from 2013/14 almost on a yearly basis and the wage bill rocketed. 

We went from a side who finished 3rd with a £15m wage bill to a side that finished 6th under Rowett and Lampard with a £40m wage bill. That is down to woeful recruitment. 

Mel was no longer willing to put money in. We were a poor proposition for potential buyers because aside from a few academy kids we had a squad of players devaluing every year while getting worse.

Mel then tried to get around FFP which landed us a points penalty, and then put us in admin, leaving us in a position we couldn’t recover from. All because of poor recruitment.

If our recruitment was good under Mel, we’d probably be in the PL now and he’d be looked upon fondly.

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Bris Vegas

[Caerphilly Ram]

3 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Recruitment is the primary factor. Obviously coaching plays a part, but we have seen poor managers like Nigel Pearson achieve success with quality players. 

The reason why Derby are in the 3rd division and not the PL is down to recruitment.

All other financial incomings and outgoings are fairly constant.

The biggest money movers is transfers in, transfers out and wages. Broadcasting deals, sponsors and matchday revenue play a part of course but they ultimately depend on what division the team is in, which is a reflection of the players on the pitch which is a reflection of recruitment.

Derby are in the third division because Mel recruited poorly. The team got worse from 2013/14 almost on a yearly basis and the wage bill rocketed. 

We went from a side who finished 3rd with a £15m wage bill to a side that finished 6th under Rowett and Lampard with a £40m wage bill. That is down to woeful recruitment. 

Mel was no longer will to put money in. We were a poor proposition for buyers because aside from a few academy kids because we had a squad of players devaluing every year while getting worse. That is down to poor recruitment.

Mel then tried to get around FFP (a situation caused by poor recruitment) which landed us a points penalty, and then put us in admin, leaving us in a position we couldn’t recover from. All because of poor recruitment.

If our recruitment was good under Mel, we’d be in the PL now and he’d be looked upon fondly.

 

As I said, recruitment is a factor (probably a fairly large one) but not the ONLY factor.

Injuries to key players?

Play off final loss? Lineup/goalkeeping performance

Global Pandemic?

Pursuit and recruitment of our managers that then had a detrimental affect? (Rowett to Stoke and Lampard to Chelsea)

If you want to reduce it to one single factor, Derby County are in league one because Mel Morris completed a takeover of the club in 2015 and made a series of poor decisions that held consequences. This includes recruitment of players, the hiring/firing of managers, a long running feud with the EFL, questionable financial practices, the Covid pandemic and financial support being denied by the EFL because of the aforementioned feud and financial irregularities, and probably more that I can’t recall off the top of my head.

It is and will always be more complex than just recruitment decisions. 

[Simmo’s left foot]

5 hours ago, Foreveram said:

Brighton are in Europe cos their owner has put hundreds of millions of pounds in to the club.

Which is exactly why football is in a mess I think..

[Kernow]

The Vale keeper is in the “team of the week” for yesterday which is an indicator that we were better than the scoreline suggests.

[Sparkle]

I am currently overseas - on paper a very good 3 points so that helps the mood 😀 - two late wins in 4 days has to help the squad morale, as well as reminding the league how big and experienced our bench is because it frequently looks better than those starting 😂

[Caerphilly Ram]

Lovely angle of the winner 😊 

[Bris Vegas]

25 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

As I said, recruitment is a factor (probably a fairly large one) but not the ONLY factor.

Injuries to key players?

Play off final loss? Lineup/goalkeeping performance

Global Pandemic?

Pursuit and recruitment of our managers that then had a detrimental affect? (Rowett to Stoke and Lampard to Chelsea)

If you want to reduce it to one single factor, Derby County are in league one because Mel Morris completed a takeover of the club in 2015 and made a series of poor decisions that held consequences. This includes recruitment of players, the hiring/firing of managers, a long running feud with the EFL, questionable financial practices, the Covid pandemic and financial support being denied by the EFL because of the aforementioned feud and financial irregularities, and probably more that I can’t recall off the top of my head.

It is and will always be more complex than just recruitment decisions. 

All of these are direct consequences of poor recruitment.

We can point to the 2013-14 playoff final defeat and injuries in 2014-15 to key players as unlucky moments.

But even the collapse at the back end of 2014-15 was heavily influenced by poor recruitment.

We signed players like Darren Bent who was about as far away from a Chris Martin type and it completely altered the way we played.

Bournemouth, meanwhile, signed like-for-like Kenweyne Jones as back-up around that same time because they were smarter with their recruitment.

 

[Caerphilly Ram]

1 minute ago, Bris Vegas said:

All of these are direct consequences of poor recruitment.

We can point to the 2013-14 playoff final defeat and injuries in 2014-15 to key players as unlucky moments.

But even the collapse at the back end of 2014-15 was heavily influenced by poor recruitment.

We signed players like Darren Bent who was about as far away from a Chris Martin type and it completely altered the way we played.

Bournemouth, meanwhile, signed like-for-like Kenweyne Jones as back-up around that same time because they were smarter with their recruitment.

 

Ok, I can see this is another of those things you won’t consider alternative perspectives on. 

 

[McArthur Park]

15 hours ago, cannable said:

What’s not to like? 
 

The traffic? The s******* ground? 😂

Fair point, it's easier to forgive those things when you've won!

[HorsforthRam]

Blimey, we won and there are still some posters that aren’t happy. Why do they bother???!!!!! 
 

Why do posters spend energy on writing posts akin to the above paragraph if they read anything they see as “criticism” after a win or see anything negative posted as a way to bash Warne.  Maybe there should be three match day threads; positive only, mixed and negative. Then you can choose your bubble 😂

[McArthur Park]

A couple of honourable mentions from last night : Nelson and Cashin for getting to grips, sometimes quite literally, with Ikpeazu! It was a good battle, but they gave as good as they got, which just seemed to make Ikpeazu mardy! I hope Wilson keeps his place as he is a joy to watch. And in my humble opinion, Collins worked hard, as always, and doesn't deserve the abuse he gets. 

[Bris Vegas]

6 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Ok, I can see this is another of those things you won’t consider alternative perspectives on. 

 

I think the evidence is there. No just with Derby. All over. Teams like Man Utd and Everton are classic cases. They are both underachieving and it is entirely down to their recruitment. 

Barcelona are like a billion pounds in debt and couldn't afford to retain their greatest ever player. Because of poor recruitment.

Liverpool won their first league title in 30+ years. Jurgen Klopp played a major role. But even with Jurgen Klopp, they wouldn't have won it if they hadn't recruited players like Robertson, Salah, Alisson and Van Dijk while moving on Coutinho.

Almost every football club finds itself where it is as a result of its recruitment. And that's not just players, but also managers, coaching and the recruitment team itself. 

Derby's best teams since 2000 coincided when the likes of Simon Hunt, Simon Clough and Darren Wassall were working in recruitment roles in the background.

[G STAR RAM]

3 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Yes we are. We are in League One because of recruitment. It is the most important aspect in football.

We got hit with points deductions and Mel put us in admin because of poor recruitment.

If you can’t see that, then you have your head buried in the ground.

Hopefully we don't have to play Chelsea next season then when they are inevitably relegated due to their poor recruitment.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

I think the evidence is there. No just with Derby. All over. Teams like Man Utd and Everton are classic cases. They are both underachieving and it is entirely down to their recruitment. 

Barcelona are like a billion pounds in debt and couldn't afford to retain their greatest ever player. Because of poor recruitment.

Liverpool won their first league title in 30+ years. Jurgen Klopp played a major role. But even with Jurgen Klopp, they wouldn't have won it if they hadn't recruited players like Robertson, Salah, Alisson and Van Dijk while moving on Coutinho.

Almost every football club finds itself where it is as a result of its recruitment. And that's not just players, but also managers, coaching and the recruitment team itself. 

Derby's best teams since 2000 coincided when the likes of Simon Hunt, Simon Clough and Darren Wassall were working in recruitment roles in the background.

Teams that recruit better players have better teams? Thanks for the fantastic insight.

Don't think anyone is disputing that, just the notion that the only reason Derby are in League One is because of bad recruitment. 

If you can't see any other factors that played a part, I'd suggest its you with your head buried somewhere, not necessarily the sand, and not others.