VAR (and stupid interpretation of rules in general) rant

[TigerTedd]

I’ve been really tempted to call into talk sport, but I know they’ll never give me the airtime for all this. Or a strongly worded letter to the FA. There are a few simple fixes that would solve all the problems with VAR. and problems with football in general. They’re right in front of us, it’s like the FA are purposefully trying to ruin football when they have the power to fix it. So here we go:

Offside:

Think about why the offside rule exists. It’s to strikers handing out with the goal keeper all game. So if a ball is knocked forward, it can be a fair foot race between an attacker and defender.

A t-shirt sleeve offside gives no one any advantage.

Problem: VAR takes ages to decide which body part is offside. 

Fix: Put chips in the middle of every players boot. That’s where the line is drawn. It’s fair for everyone. And it would be as instant as goal line technology then. It’s black and white, no need for VAR. I think we can all agree that goal line technology is a good thing, and has very rarely gone wrong. Offside should be as black and white and fair and instant as goal line technology.

People will still moan about a mm offside, but at the end of the day, if you give them a metre leeway, people will still moan when they are 1.001 m offside. So the line has to be drawn somewhere. 

Handball:

Again, why does the handball rule exist? To prevent people from purposefully handling the ball. A ricochet into the hand from half a yard away has no intent. 

Based on intent, there should be very few handball penalties. There aren’t many footballers who can actually think quick enough to use their hand on purpose, it’s not their instinct or how their muscle memory has been changed. Luis Suarez on the goal incidents are few and far between.

Problem: They’ve tried to introduce some black and white guidelines into the rule, to make a refs life easier, and take personal interpretation out of it as much as possible. So now intent has nothing to do with it, and it’s about body shape and all this rubbish.

Solution: this is where VAR should be coming into its own. By looking at freeze frames you can better judge intent. Look at where the players is looking, how their arm is moving. Before VAR pundits would do this all the time. It’s impossible to make that judgement in real time. But with replays it’s easier.

It’ll always still be open for some debate. But it can be far more clear cut.

They introduced new handball rules at the same time as introducing VAR, not thinking that VAR negates the need for these daft new rules because intent can be judged in almost real time far easier now. 

People blame VAR for a lot of the issues these days, but often VAR is accurately interpreting the rules. It’s just new rules that are daft.

Red Cards / Penalties / Diving:

Problem: VAR sticks it’s oar in at every opportunity and ruins the game. It’s almost like they’re trying to justify their existence. Ideally we’d never see them, but then people would start asking questions about why we need the expense. 

Solution: each team gets one cricket or tennis style appeal, controlled by the captain. If it’s upheld, they get it back  

Picture the scene, a player goes down like a ton of bricks.

Player: Ref, he elbowed me, send him off.

Ref: Okay, I didn’t see it, how strongly do you feel about it? do you want to use your appeal? Shall we go to the screen together?

Player: Umm, no, you’re okay, ok second thought, maybe it wasn’t that bad. 

Ref (turns to accused player): okay, would you like to use your appeal and we’ll see if he dived. Baring in mind he’s on a yellow card already. 

Diving player gets sent off. Justice is served.

VAR was only meant to get involved during those hand if his moments. The Henry handball for example. Those glaringly the obvious mistakes that somehow the whole stadium sees, but the ref doesn’t. That are replayed for years and years. When it was first introduced, I was excited because I thought this is what it would help prevent. But they’ve made such a ridiculous mess of it. 

Giving players the right to appeal would stop stupid crowding of the ref. Stops diving and false claims. It can all be far more civilised. Referee, how did you not see that. Sorry, I can’t be everywhere at once, do you want me to have another look. Yes please. Easy peasy. 

Penalty. Ref, he dived, there was no contact. Looked like contact from here, but you’re best placed to know if there was contact or not, do you want to appeal and I’ll take a closer look?

Or the other way around. Ref he fouled me as that corner came across. I didn’t see it, shall we go have a look, do you want to use your appeal?

Rant over. Now how do I get this to the FA. They screwed it up so badly, I honestly think there’s some sort of agenda. Even if it is just to justify the expense of var by using it as much as possible. 

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, TigerTedd said:

 There are a few simple fixes that would solve all the problems with VAR. 

 

 

[Alty_Ram]

Everyone obviously has their own take on this but nothing I have seen of VAR makes me feel that it has actually improved the game overall. I totally understand the urge to try and get as many decisions right as possible and in the case of something like goal line technology (bar the odd very rare lapse) has been a really useful addition to the officials armoury because it is technically sound and is instant.

There is still so much ambiguity and controversy over a good number of VAR decisions though that you are left wondering what it has actually fixed - every week there seems to be a headline centred around something VAR did or didn't do. For me personally, even if it got 100% of decisions right, it still would be a backward step because standing around waiting for officials to look at endless replays to see if part of someone's heel might be offside is not a worthwhile trade off versus game flow and certainty.

My understanding is that VAR was originally intended to fix obvious injustices but it has just (IMHO) become a tedious, intrusive and forensic micro-examination of a sport that should be decided by a visceral sporting endeavour, not by cold science and endless analysis. The idea of everyone having to stand around waiting to see if a goal will be allowed by the VAR official is a hugely frustrating one for me. Plenty of people feel that it has brought largely positives but if we had the option to have it in league 1 tomorrow then I personally would vote for 'No'.

Don't get me wrong, it drives me up the wall when you see obvious injustices in League 1 matches where it is clear to most people in the stadium that the officials have just got it badly wrong but honestly, on balance, taking the rough with the smooth re decisions vs standing around (sometimes for several minutes) to see if the off-field officials can find some reason why a goal can't stand is not IMHO progress. Not in a game where momentum and excitement and spontaneity is one of the main attractions of the sport.

I totally agree that rule changes have contributed lots of additional frustration and confusion and some rules will never be agreed on by everyone. Re handball, I'm not convinced that the change of rules has made it fairer. Refs used to just have to ask themselves (perhaps over-simplified) "was it ball to hand or hand to ball". A pretty simple concept on the face of it and by no means flawless but in essence it asked, "was that deliberate". Anyone who has played football in defence can tell you that when someone smashes a ball at you from a few metres away then it is very hard to get out of the way and when you are trying to change direction to get a block in, it is incredibly hard to not have your arms out to balance yourself, particularly when you have a sudden change of direction and therefore weight distribution.

There has always been the counter argument that at a certain distance then it is reasonable to expect you to get your arm out of the way, but how do you judge that ? How far is reasonable vs power of shot? I don't think that making even more nuanced rules re body shape or whatever has particularly helped. My personal feeling is that handball calls based on intent will always rely on a good level of interpretation (over-reliance?) but as a counter to that, if you say any contact whatsoever with an arm is a penalty regardless of the situation (volleyed at you from point blank range) then you end up with some very harsh penalties and potential for attackers looking to just kick the ball at an arm. If you have a load of increasingly complex and forensic rules then you will need an increasingly complex and forensic tool to analyse the incidents which will take longer and involve more loss of flow and momentum and more standing around. It feels that in a way there is a decision to be made between a more technically correct but more analytical game and a more flawed but more spontaneous and better flowing game and I guess where you sit on that debate is a decision for the individual.

[TigerTedd]

5 minutes ago, Alty_Ram said:

Everyone obviously has their own take on this but nothing I have seen of VAR makes me feel that it has actually improved the game overall. I totally understand the urge to try and get as many decisions right as possible and in the case of something like goal line technology (bar the odd very rare lapse) has been a really useful addition to the officials armoury because it is technically sound and is instant.

There is still so much ambiguity and controversy over a good number of VAR decisions though that you are left wondering what it has actually fixed - every week there seems to be a headline centred around something VAR did or didn't do. For me personally, even if it got 100% of decisions right, it still would be a backward step because standing around waiting for officials to look at endless replays to see if part of someone's heel might be offside is not a worthwhile trade off versus game flow and certainty.

My understanding is that VAR was originally intended to fix obvious injustices but it has just (IMHO) become a tedious, intrusive and forensic micro-examination of a sport that should be decided by a visceral sporting endeavour, not by cold science and endless analysis. The idea of everyone having to stand around waiting to see if a goal will be allowed by the VAR official is a hugely frustrating one for me. Plenty of people feel that it has brought largely positives but if we had the option to have it in league 1 tomorrow then I personally would vote for 'No'.

Don't get me wrong, it drives me up the wall when you see obvious injustices in League 1 matches where it is clear to most people in the stadium that the officials have just got it badly wrong but honestly, on balance, taking the rough with the smooth re decisions vs standing around (sometimes for several minutes) to see if the off-field officials can find some reason why a goal can't stand is not IMHO progress. Not in a game where momentum and excitement and spontaneity is one of the main attractions of the sport.

I totally agree that rule changes have contributed lots of additional frustration and confusion and some rules will never be agreed on by everyone. Re handball, I'm not convinced that the change of rules has made it fairer. Refs used to just have to ask themselves (perhaps over-simplified) "was it ball to hand or hand to ball". A pretty simple concept on the face of it and by no means flawless but in essence it asked, "was that deliberate". Anyone who has played football in defence can tell you that when someone smashes a ball at you from a few metres away then it is very hard to get out of the way and when you are trying to change direction to get a block in, it is incredibly hard to not have your arms out to balance yourself, particularly when you have a sudden change of direction and therefore weight distribution.

There has always been the counter argument that at a certain distance then it is reasonable to expect you to get your arm out of the way, but how do you judge that ? How far is reasonable vs power of shot? I don't think that making even more nuanced rules re body shape or whatever has particularly helped. My personal feeling is that handball calls based on intent will always rely on a good level of interpretation (over-reliance?) but as a counter to that, if you say any contact whatsoever with an arm is a penalty regardless of the situation (volleyed at you from point blank range) then you end up with some very harsh penalties and potential for attackers looking to just kick the ball at an arm. If you have a load of increasingly complex and forensic rules then you will need an increasingly complex and forensic tool to analyse the incidents which will take longer and involve more loss of flow and momentum and more standing around. It feels that in a way there is a decision to be made between a more technically correct but more analytical game and a more flawed but more spontaneous and better flowing game and I guess where you sit on that debate is a decision for the individual.

You’ve got it.

The whole ball to hand thing was always so easily decided in the studios afterwards, especially with ex footballers involved, and it felt like VAR was just going to be that, but during the game. That’s what it should be. And it would work well.

Bug the body shape thing came in at the same time. It’s trying to make it more black and white but it leads to ridiculously harsh decisions.

Id accept an accidental handball as an offence if it genuinely stopped a goal from going in. But it doesn’t take a long time to decide if a handball is luis Suarez making a save any keeper would be proud of, or Henry nudging it in with his hand. Everyone was pretty much in agreement that those were the kind of decisions that shouldn’t be allowed to be missed.

But what annoys me now is when VAR gets involved and their we’re not complaints in the first place. Like who the f*** asked you to get involved.

VAR is checking for a handball here. No one appealed for a hand ball. Why are you getting involved?

But now the players have cottoned onto the idea that VAR will give all sorts of stupid crap, so now they do appeal when before they wouldn’t have bothered. And players making the TV signal becomes common place.

If they’re going to do that anyway, I say formalise it, and stamp out any spurious claims, and VAR getting involved when it’s not needed. 

If later analysis says there was a hand ball, then the players have no one to blame but themselves for not appealing. The control is in their hands. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

VAR should be used for penalties and red cards only in play.  Each team should be allowed 2 additional challenges per game- yellow cards, free kicks within 20 yards of the goal, pulling down at corners etc.   

With the last one Leicester don't win the league but probably get relegated instead.  Everyone's a winner

[Ilkestonian]

I'd scrap var and the offside rule altogether, think it'd improve the game no end.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Ilkestonian

[Day]

How many years until humans are replaced with AI on VAR? You know it will happen, it's a matter of when not if.

[Mucker1884]

37 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

VAR should be used for penalties and red cards only in play.  Each team should be allowed 2 additional challenges per game- yellow cards, free kicks within 20 yards of the goal, pulling down at corners etc.   

With the last one Leicester don't win the league but probably get relegated instead.  Everyone's a winner

Ah!  But where did the offence start?  20 yards plus an eighth of an inch?

You're just asking for trouble!  Go back to the drawing board, buddy!  👀

 

🤣

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

6 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Ah!  But where did the offence start?  20 yards plus an eighth of an inch?

You're just asking for trouble!  Go back to the drawing board, buddy!  👀

 

🤣

Ok. Everyone should get 10 challenges a game for whatever they like, apart from Forest, Leeds and Birmingham who get none, no in play VAR checks that may benefit them and every goal they score will be checked to see if half a b******* offside.

[TimRam]

It's a crazy idea and spoils the game. It's so refreshing to watch a match without it.

[FlyBritishMidland]

It was introduced for the clear and obvious but it’s used for everything.  Just look at the 2 pens in the Man Utd game this week.  Neither were penalties, no appeals, not obvious errors but VAR intervenes.

[Bris Vegas]

VAR only came in because of the constant abuse the officials received from managers, players, pundits and fans alike.

Scrapping VAR will make the game so much quicker and more enjoyable (you can celebrate a goal without the doubt of whether it will be pulled back for something minor).

But scrapping VAR will only work if officials are treated as humans and we accept their mistakes are part of the game.

[AndyinLiverpool]

11 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

VAR only came in because of the constant abuse the officials received from managers, players, pundits and fans alike.

Scrapping VAR will make the game so much quicker and more enjoyable (you can celebrate a goal without the doubt of whether it will be pulled back for something minor).

But scrapping VAR will only work if officials are treated as humans and we accept their mistakes are part of the game.

Yep.

VAR is the proof that the abusers have won.

People who are not mature enough to accept it when something doesn't go their way. People who never had to grow up.

[Chellaston Ram]

37 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

VAR only came in because of the constant abuse the officials received from managers, players, pundits and fans alike.

Scrapping VAR will make the game so much quicker and more enjoyable (you can celebrate a goal without the doubt of whether it will be pulled back for something minor).

But scrapping VAR will only work if officials are treated as humans and we accept their mistakes are part of the game.

[Chellaston Ram]

Managers can accept strikers missing sitters and goalkeepers dropping howlers so they should accept referees make mistakes as well

[Mucker1884]

1 hour ago, Chellaston Ram said:

Managers can accept strikers missing sitters and goalkeepers dropping howlers so they should accept referees make mistakes as well

That's a good point, tbf. 👍

Maybe club owners should use video to show obvious managerial c***-ups... tactics... obvious formations that didn't work... poor subs leading to turning victory to defeat... etc... and maybe dock the managers wage for that week!

#That'll learn 'em!  😁

[BondJovi]

If the top league managers had the sensible maturity of Postecoglu we wouldn't be in this mess. Listen to his interview post Chelsea game. Very rare to hear so much sense from a manager!

We did nothing to support referees. They get treated like garbage at grass roots. Their authority rapidly diminishing at the top level.

Football is a fast paced, physical contact sport. It never needed micro managing every goal. It never needed people watching screens looking for reasons to not give the goal.

If you are having to analyse several freeze frames, then it ruins it. I don't actually think they should be able to slow the video right down, because you are then making it something the ref could never possibly see. If itsn't immediately obvious upon review, onfield stays. They are the only ones that really matter.

The other thing, the rules are not black and white, they require common sense and an understanding of football or at least they did! You can tell so much by how the players react.

It can go in the bin.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Hate it.

Bin it.

Just think, there are going to future generations who've only ever known VAR football..........poor suckers, we might as well incinerate the earth just to spare them.

 

[uttoxram75]

3 hours ago, BondJovi said:

I don't actually think they should be able to slow the video right down, because you are then making it something the ref could never possibly see.

Brilliant point.

I'm guilty of moaning about referees, i played football for 25 years in local leagues and you get to know a good ref who may make the odd poor decision from the weak ref who is scared of making a decision but at the end of the day, they see it in real time not slow motion so VAR should judge it in real time.

Use tech to decide if a ball has crossed the line and offsides maybe but otherwise bin it. Its not improved the standard of refereeing one iota.

[maydrakin]

I agree with the idea of giving the manager the option to raise challenges in the game with a specific charge (with the fourth official, during the next break in play).

If your challenge is not upheld, you forfeit a player, which might be higher stakes and remove spurious claims to kill another team’s momentum, but would only give the clear and obvious calls.