Experience vs Youth

[SK47]

In the position we are in, lacking goals, finishing off the chances we create, and nearly 2 months off the transfer window, would you stick with the experience in the likes of  Collins/Waggy/Wash? or would you be happy to take a risk in pushing our youth players like Brown where it might take them a few games to bed in but could potentially be better than all the others we have?

Just wondering where the rest of you stand?

For me, I'd much rather take the risk with Brown, seeing as Warne has stipulated goals need to be spread out across the team and we don't have a nailed on goal scorer. It seems like the perfect time to trying out new options.

 

🐏

 

Edited November 5, 2023 by SK47

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, SK47 said:

In the position we are in, lacking goals, finishing off the chances we create, and nearly 2 months off the transfer window, would you stick with the experience in the likes of  Collins/Waggy/Wash? or would you be happy to take a risk in pushing our youth players like Brown where it might take them a few games to bed in but could potentially be better than all the others we have? Just wondering where the rest of you stand?

For me, I'd much rather take the risk with Brown, seeing as Warne has stipulated goals need to be spread out across the team and we don't have a nailed on goal scorer. It seems like the perfect time to trying out new options.

 

🐏

 

Warne isn't a risk taker, he's a plodder. We needed goals today (only a Cup game after all) and at no time did I think he'd bring Brown on. 

Edited November 5, 2023 by RoyMac5

[Srg]

Youth. 

One of the huge issues with our team is a lack of pace and athleticism. We lack it in so many areas, even NML who is quick is getting on in his career so can’t maintain for 90mins. Warne preached pressing in pre-season and we basically never do it because of this. It’s also why Thompson looked so good before he got injured, all because he could run. 

So, couple this issue with the fact fans are generally a lot, lot more patient with youth players than the same old retreads getting yet another try at it. Can we not see Darren Robinson instead of Korey Smith, for example? It was completely ludicrous that Brown had to wait to come on midweek to see Collins trot around for a bit. 

[SK47]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

Warne isn't a risk taker, he's a plodder. We needed goals today and at no time did I think he'd bring Brown on. 

I will definitely agree with that. Its a shame because these are the games that the youth should be playing in. What's worrying is we played the winning team from last game against the league below, and was playing (up until last knockings) like we hadn't scored all season. So frustrating. But I would love to see Brown get a run of games and make the most of his potential. We're not exactly flying with goals in that department either 🙃

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

Whilst ever we have the current regime we won’t see youth. 
 

Browns development has been hindered massively this weekend. He could have played in 1 of 2 games but instead wasted his time sitting on a bench with no chance of playing unless we’re 4-0 up on 80 minutes. 
 

Youth can add so much to the team when bedded in properly. It’s also something that fans love to see and can also forgive youth if things don’t go quite to plan. 
 

 

[Srg]

1 hour ago, SK47 said:

I will definitely agree with that. Its a shame because these are the games that the youth should be playing in. What's worrying is we played the winning team from last game against the league below, and was playing (up until last knockings) like we hadn't scored all season. So frustrating. But I would love to see Brown get a run of games and make the most of his potential. We're not exactly flying with goals in that department either 🙃

I did kind of understand going for the same team today of all days though after the performance midweek. Doesn’t excuse the subs though, and I would be shocked if he suddenly went crazy youthful on Wednesday too.  

[Rampant]

Dajaune Brown must surely start on Wednesday. 

[G-Ram]

Id rather play a midfielder / winger up front over Colins & Washington. Both very poor Centre Forwards. 

[BondJovi]

2 hours ago, Srg said:

Youth. 

One of the huge issues with our team is a lack of pace and athleticism. We lack it in so many areas, even NML who is quick is getting on in his career so can’t maintain for 90mins. Warne preached pressing in pre-season and we basically never do it because of this. It’s also why Thompson looked so good before he got injured, all because he could run. 

So, couple this issue with the fact fans are generally a lot, lot more patient with youth players than the same old retreads getting yet another try at it. Can we not see Darren Robinson instead of Korey Smith, for example? It was completely ludicrous that Brown had to wait to come on midweek to see Collins trot around for a bit. 

It is one of the great PW contradictions. If you believe the interviews, it was Barker who was pushing to get Brown on earlier against Northampton.

Our lack of pace does lead to us being horribly exposed at times. 

[richinspain]

2 hours ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

Whilst ever we have the current regime we won’t see youth. 
 

Browns development has been hindered massively this weekend. He could have played in 1 of 2 games but instead wasted his time sitting on a bench with no chance of playing unless we’re 4-0 up on 80 minutes. 
 

Youth can add so much to the team when bedded in properly. It’s also something that fans love to see and can also forgive youth if things don’t go quite to plan. 
 

 

I do think that the experience of being with the first team squad in a big match atmosphere will be of more benefit in the long term than a youth team game.

[maydrakin]

The issue is if he doesn’t start well and the crowd becomes toxic (regardless of whether it is directly towards Brown or the team in general), it could have a detrimental effect on his confidence and, ergo, his confidence.

I’m all for having Brown, Robinson and Radcliffe on the bench, but we have to then let them take their chance rather than just throwing them into the fire…

[BondJovi]

13 minutes ago, maydrakin said:

The issue is if he doesn’t start well and the crowd becomes toxic (regardless of whether it is directly towards Brown or the team in general), it could have a detrimental effect on his confidence and, ergo, his confidence.

I’m all for having Brown, Robinson and Radcliffe on the bench, but we have to then let them take their chance rather than just throwing them into the fire…

Can they offer more than Collins and Smith do currently? In my opinion they are only playing because they have experience, not because they are actually playing well. 

They won't get that chance whilst the manager favours seasoned pros. But this team needs pace, energy, the willingness to try things that youth brings.

The last headline young performance was Sibley under Cocu. He had experience he could have chose but he trusted him. Go back to Nigel trusting Bennett, who was so close to a dream debut goal.

I am just bored of seeing the same old players making zero impact in matches. If the young player gets it wrong, then comes the man management skills of the manager, in which Warne is meant to excel.

[Tamworthram]

42 minutes ago, maydrakin said:

The issue is if he doesn’t start well and the crowd becomes toxic (regardless of whether it is directly towards Brown or the team in general), it could have a detrimental effect on his confidence and, ergo, his confidence.

I’m all for having Brown, Robinson and Radcliffe on the bench, but we have to then let them take their chance rather than just throwing them into the fire…

I think you make a good point but, a good point for starting one or more of them on Wednesday. They’ll be playing against an U21 team and not therefore seasoned professionals and the crowd is probably going to be easily the smallest of the season I reckon. It might be better to break them in gently in a game like this.

[Guest]

15 hours ago, SK47 said:

In the position we are in, lacking goals, finishing off the chances we create, and nearly 2 months off the transfer window, would you stick with the experience in the likes of  Collins/Waggy/Wash? or would you be happy to take a risk in pushing our youth players like Brown where it might take them a few games to bed in but could potentially be better than all the others we have?

Just wondering where the rest of you stand?

For me, I'd much rather take the risk with Brown, seeing as Warne has stipulated goals need to be spread out across the team and we don't have a nailed on goal scorer. It seems like the perfect time to trying out new options.

 

🐏

 

I'll take anyone of any age who knows it's a good idea to be in the penalty area when a cross is scheduled to arrive (and ideally tries to get on the end of it).

Edited November 6, 2023 by jameso

[Ghost of Clough]

11 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I think you make a good point but, a good point for starting one or more of them on Wednesday. They’ll be playing against an U21 team and not therefore seasoned professionals and the crowd is probably going to be easily the smallest of the season I reckon. It might be better to break them in gently in a game like this.

Even with a stable U21 squad, Wolves U21s are only midtable in PL2, 6 points ahead of our U21s. A mixture of our U21s and first teamers needing minutes should be good enough to beat them. I would back a team such as this to win, even with 11 changes from yesterday.

Vickers
Wilson   Radcliffe   Cashin   Sibley
Ward   DRobinson   Fornah   Davidson
DBrown   Collins

[TheHomunculusLives]

I've raised this before, but I find it pretty disappointing that a club with a Category A academy that's mid-table in League One doesn't have more homegrown players in the starting team. The Bird/Sibley/Cashin/Thompson generation all came through a while ago now, but personally I would expect a few 18/19 year olds to be more involved too by now, although I appreciate some of the best talent got sold when we were in administration (e.g. Kellyman, Kaide Gordon, Dylan Williams).

[Long Time Lurker]

2 hours ago, BondJovi said:

Can they offer more than Collins and Smith do currently? In my opinion they are only playing because they have experience, not because they are actually playing well. 

They won't get that chance whilst the manager favours seasoned pros. But this team needs pace, energy, the willingness to try things that youth brings.

The last headline young performance was Sibley under Cocu. He had experience he could have chose but he trusted him. Go back to Nigel trusting Bennett, who was so close to a dream debut goal.

I am just bored of seeing the same old players making zero impact in matches. If the young player gets it wrong, then comes the man management skills of the manager, in which Warne is meant to excel.

I'm not entirely sure I understand the point being made here, as the two examples quoted are, I would have thought, more of a reason for being cautious than for picking DBrown etc. 

With Bennett, we naturally thought that we had a real talent in our hands, given his debut at 15.  As it turned out, he made a total of 88 further appearances for us, spread over nine seasons, which produced six goals.  He only ever played one game for us where he completed the full 90 minutes. 

As for Sibbo, I like him a lot.  However, it wasn't his debut (which was against Scunthorpe in the EFL cup) but his first game in the league against the Wendies, followed by the hat trick at Millwall that created the level of expectation about him.  In retrospect, the first two league games were possibly the worst things that could have happened to him, given the level of expectations that they raise ('he's better than Jude Bellingham'...).   He was great to watch in the u21s, but expecting him to dance around experienced championship hard men in the way that he did with kids his own age at u18/u21 level was, again in retrospect, always unlikely.   The dreaded phrase "failed to live up to his potential" seems to hang in the air about him, but what somebody's potential is can never be more than a guess on the part of the person doing the assessment.  Perhaps the fault lies more with the assessor than the actual player.

Having said  all that, I hope we play something like Ghost of Clough's team on Wednesday, although I think Radcliffe is injured and the Sibbo police will be after GoC for suggesting that young Louie should play at left back....................

 

[Banksy]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Even with a stable U21 squad, Wolves U21s are only midtable in PL2, 6 points ahead of our U21s. A mixture of our U21s and first teamers needing minutes should be good enough to beat them. I would back a team such as this to win, even with 11 changes from yesterday.

Vickers
Wilson   Radcliffe   Cashin   Sibley
Ward   DRobinson   Fornah   Davidson
DBrown   Collins

Normally I'd be all for that. Radcliffe was out injured this weekend. In respect of Davidson and Brown, we have an FA Youth Cup tie at Mansfield on Friday and they are both eligible for that, which could put a question mark over whether to include them against Wolves.

[Banksy]

3 hours ago, maydrakin said:

The issue is if he doesn’t start well and the crowd becomes toxic (regardless of whether it is directly towards Brown or the team in general), it could have a detrimental effect on his confidence and, ergo, his confidence.

I’m all for having Brown, Robinson and Radcliffe on the bench, but we have to then let them take their chance rather than just throwing them into the fire…

They've already played against Wolves U21 this season in PL2 and they didn't get burned in that 😂

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Banksy said:

Normally I'd be all for that. Radcliffe was out injured this weekend. In respect of Davidson and Brown, we have an FA Youth Cup tie at Mansfield on Friday and they are both eligible for that, which could put a question mark over whether to include them against Wolves.

Youth cup would and should IMO generally always take priority to give players experience playing in it. Evans and Robinson both dropped back into u18s last year to play in it.

The only difference I see is that Brown also played in it last year so he may be pushed to play EFL trophy instead.