Warne Out Out

[Jourdan]

5 hours ago, Birdyabroad said:

…

I am sorry but how is us possibly getting promoted to the Championship under Warne in any way comparable to us getting promoted to the PL the previous time over 15 years ago?

In 2008, the board and the manager were reportedly at odds and the board were seemingly unwilling to invest in summer 2008 to improve the team sufficiently. We couldn’t compete with the other promoted sides never mind the 17 others. The step up to the PL was huge back then. Is the step up to the Championship really anywhere close to that?

Consider that Clowes appears to be nothing but in full support of Warne and consider that once the restrictions are lifted and with the additional revenue streams to follow from promotion, we’d be able to compete financially with anyone else who gets promoted and probably around 6-10 other Championship clubs as a fair estimate. Surely that’s a far better place to be in?

What’s there to stop us from improving and adapting to the Championship well? Not only footballing sides do it. Luton and Coventry did it. In fact, if you look at Wigan, Barnsley, Peterborough and Blackpool as recent reoccurrences, it’s footballing sides who more often tend to go back where they came from.

This fearmongering is outrageous. 

[Ram-Alf]

28 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

What’s there to stop us from improving and adapting to the Championship well? Not only footballing sides do it. Luton and Coventry did it. In fact, if you look at Wigan, Barnsley, Peterborough and Blackpool as recent reoccurrences, it’s footballing sides who more often tend to go back where they came from.

This fearmongering is outrageous. 

Finances at a guess, Better players, Keeping hold of the 22k plus ST holders, If promoted we'll get circa £8 million in TV revenue, We'll need at least 12+ more players at a higher wage cost, Transfer fees + agents fees, The ticket prices will rise as the product in theory will rise, I believe we are losing a considerable amount of loot in League 1, I think Clowes will need some form of financial backing...ie some rich "sugar daddy" to come on board😬

Coming out of embargo and the game starts again with a clean slate, May be Stephen Pierce is already scouting for the next multi millionaire who has millions to flush down the toilet 😉

[Returning ram]

19 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

Finances at a guess, Better players, Keeping hold of the 22k plus ST holders, If promoted we'll get circa £8 million in TV revenue, We'll need at least 12+ more players at a higher wage cost, Transfer fees + agents fees, The ticket prices will rise as the product in theory will rise, I believe we are losing a considerable amount of loot in League 1, I think Clowes will need some form of financial backing...ie some rich "sugar daddy" to come on board😬

Coming out of embargo and the game starts again with a clean slate, May be Stephen Pierce is already scouting for the next multi millionaire who has millions to flush down the toilet 😉

Based on @Ghost of Clough figures, we have a wage bill of 14m, if that's the figure we are paying our players in Div 1, then based upon this article, we will have no problem competing from a financial point of view.

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/championship-wage-bills-2023-24-leeds-leicester-southampton

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, Returning ram said:

Based on @Ghost of Clough figures, we have a wage bill of 14m, if that's the figure we are paying our players in Div 1, then based upon this article, we will have no problem competing from a financial point of view.

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/championship-wage-bills-2023-24-leeds-leicester-southampton

Makes you think, and if it was just about money how come we never managed to get another striker in?

[Returning ram]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Makes you think, and if it was just about money how come we never managed to get another striker in?

I thought PW covered that ? We had one but the club changed its mind.

[Ram-Alf]

9 minutes ago, Returning ram said:

Based on @Ghost of Clough figures, we have a wage bill of 14m, if that's the figure we are paying our players in Div 1, then based upon this article, we will have no problem competing from a financial point of view.

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/championship-wage-bills-2023-24-leeds-leicester-southampton

Our budget will surely be higher on the basis better players are more expensive, But lets say our budget will stay at circa £14million then that will keep us as you say "we will have no problem competing"...then there is this quote below

“From a wages point of view, this is now the fifth year in a row that the wage-to-revenue ratio is above 100 per cent for the Championship, which is quite concerning,” Zal Udwadia, assistant director in Deloitte’s sports business group, told i News following their recently-published annual review.

It's a balancing act that's going to take Houdini and Paul Daniels to pull a rabbit out of the hat

[RoyMac5]

25 minutes ago, Returning ram said:

I thought PW covered that ? We had one but the club changed its mind.

Oh right I hadn't realised there was only one striker.

[Jourdan]

35 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

Finances at a guess, Better players, Keeping hold of the 22k plus ST holders, If promoted we'll get circa £8 million in TV revenue, We'll need at least 12+ more players at a higher wage cost, Transfer fees + agents fees, The ticket prices will rise as the product in theory will rise, I believe we are losing a considerable amount of loot in League 1, I think Clowes will need some form of financial backing...ie some rich "sugar daddy" to come on board😬

Coming out of embargo and the game starts again with a clean slate, May be Stephen Pierce is already scouting for the next multi millionaire who has millions to flush down the toilet 😉

I am not saying it will be easy but surely Clowes came into this knowing that he would need to finance a tilt at staying in the Championship at some point?

Surely by bringing in people like Hale to improve the academy infrastructure over time and Thomas to improve recruitment over time, this is part of his efforts to make it more viable that we can stay in the Championship initially?

Surely by spending £3-400,000 on Blackett Taylor and spending to secure the likes of Cashin, Nyambe and NML on longer term contracts, he is showing commitment to the cause?

Ipswich and Sunderland competing for promotion in 2023 and 2024 surely gives us inspiration. Plymouth being 15th and comfortably clear of the bottom three surely gives us realistic hope.

Coventry coming back from similar financial turmoil and stabilising in the Championship and trusting Mark Robins to grow and evolve as a coach in a similar way that Warne will have to surely gives us even more hope?

The Coventry model could be one we very well emulate…

[Returning ram]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Oh right I hadn't realised there was only one striker.

It might make it easier to try to answer the question if you didn't talk in riddles and just get to the point you are trying to make ? 

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, Returning ram said:

It might make it easier to try to answer the question if you didn't talk in riddles and just get to the point you are trying to make ? 

Lol, more attacks on poster rather than the post!

What isn't to understand from: "Makes you think, and if it was just about money how come we never managed to get another striker in?" Ie we have a large wage bill, so why no striker.

If 'competing' was just about having a big wage bill how come we didn't 'compete' for a striker this January? So 'competing' in the Championship (should we get there) may well be about more than money, as I said.

Edited February 12 by RoyMac5

[Returning ram]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Lol, more attacks on poster rather than the post!

What isn't to understand from: "Makes you think, and if it was just about money how come we never managed to get another striker in?" Ie we have a large wage bill, so why no striker.

If 'competing' was just about having a big wage bill how come we didn't 'compete' for a striker this January? So 'competing' in the Championship (should we get there) may well be about more than money, as I said.

Why was it an attack ? 
i genuinely couldn't understand if it was a dig at PW or Clowes or something else, because when I answered your question, the reply was about not being the only striker.

Thanks for clearing it up though...I think it's well documented that we have reached the limits in the perm signings against the business plan agreed with the league. So there was no way we could manoeuvre on that.
 

This is relaxed next year, so therefore with my basic maths, IF we are paying out 14m already on players wages and have another 8m revenue coming in, that should be enough to compete based on the figures on the article.

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Ram-Alf said:

Finances at a guess, Better players, Keeping hold of the 22k plus ST holders, If promoted we'll get circa £8 million in TV revenue, We'll need at least 12+ more players at a higher wage cost, Transfer fees + agents fees, The ticket prices will rise as the product in theory will rise, I believe we are losing a considerable amount of loot in League 1, I think Clowes will need some form of financial backing...ie some rich "sugar daddy" to come on board😬

Coming out of embargo and the game starts again with a clean slate, May be Stephen Pierce is already scouting for the next multi millionaire who has millions to flush down the toilet 😉

Preston haven't finished lower than 14th since they were promoted in 2015 (best finish was 7th). Their wagw bill last season was £21m (down from a peak of £24m). That's where we would be if we put all our extra revenue towards wages. Losses would also remain the same (excluding player sales), which I assume is a level Clowes is 'content' to maintain.

[europia]

1 hour ago, Returning ram said:

Based on @Ghost of Clough figures, we have a wage bill of 14m, if that's the figure we are paying our players in Div 1, then based upon this article, we will have no problem competing from a financial point of view.

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/championship-wage-bills-2023-24-leeds-leicester-southampton

Well I don't know if the recent revelation that the club is currently losing +£6m a year has been confirmed, but if so it could be difficult to break even in the championship, with inevitable increased wages. Most championship clubs are (or were) carrying significant debt and the combined debt of EFL Ch'ship clubs was in excess of £1.5 billion (2022). Derby County's owner has referred to sustainability, so hopefully the club intends to operate within a financial framework that ensures such. 

[FlyBritishMidland]

To the outside world we must look a bit mad.  A team sat 2nd in the league and we have a thread about sacking the manager that reaches 120 pages.  And about 13.5, over 10%, of those pages since going into 2nd place.  This must be some sort of record amongst fan forums.  Most fans would be delighted to be 2nd in their respective league.

A lot of the concern and debate is about the football.  I get it may not be pretty all the time, but I also don’t think it’s as bad as portrayed in here. It reminds me of Mel sacking Clement and coining the infamous “Derby Way” phrase.

I also get the concern about PW in the Championship.  What I would say is, he’ll have far more resources to build a team to stay there than he ever had at Rotherham.

[Crewton]

26 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

To the outside world we must look a bit mad.  A team sat 2nd in the league and we have a thread about sacking the manager that reaches 120 pages.  And about 13.5, over 10%, of those pages since going into 2nd place.  This must be some sort of record amongst fan forums.  Most fans would be delighted to be 2nd in their respective league.

A lot of the concern and debate is about the football.  I get it may not be pretty all the time, but I also don’t think it’s as bad as portrayed in here. It reminds me of Mel sacking Clement and coining the infamous “Derby Way” phrase.

I also get the concern about PW in the Championship.  What I would say is, he’ll have far more resources to build a team to stay there than he ever had at Rotherham.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[Returning ram]

9 hours ago, europia said:

Well I don't know if the recent revelation that the club is currently losing +£6m a year has been confirmed, but if so it could be difficult to break even in the championship, with inevitable increased wages. Most championship clubs are (or were) carrying significant debt and the combined debt of EFL Ch'ship clubs was in excess of £1.5 billion (2022). Derby County's owner has referred to sustainability, so hopefully the club intends to operate within a financial framework that ensures such. 

Must admit, I know very little around the finances, was only answering a post that said we need more investment.

A figure of 14m is being banded around as the players wage bill, seems excessive to me as it equates to an average of 27 players on 10k a week, however as I said, what do I know 😏

Edited February 13 by Returning ram
Average added

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

...A lot of the concern and debate is about the football.  I get it may not be pretty all the time, but I also don’t think it’s as bad as portrayed in here. It reminds me of Mel sacking Clement and coining the infamous “Derby Way” phrase.

I also get the concern about PW in the Championship.  What I would say is, he’ll have far more resources to build a team to stay there than he ever had at Rotherham.

He's got that now. 

[Ram-Alf]

10 hours ago, Jourdan said:

I am not saying it will be easy but surely Clowes came into this knowing that he would need to finance a tilt at staying in the Championship at some point?

Clowes will have a plan, Whether long or short 🤷‍♂️ as I'd guess so would the other 23 EFL teams, Now we're into crystal ball territory, We know there's going to be another squad building to come in the summer, DC will stick with PW that's for sure the £8m will help to strengthen that squad, The 22k ST holders I'd guess would increase so it looks like a soundish financial footing, I like how the Coventry model has evolved altho they don't own their ground.

Time is a precious thing in football and this is something some supporters refuse to accept, I'm hopeful and expecting us to go up in either 1st or 2nd there's nowt in this division we need to fear...only ourselves 😉

[Caerphilly Ram]

2 hours ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

To the outside world we must look a bit mad.  A team sat 2nd in the league and we have a thread about sacking the manager that reaches 120 pages.  And about 13.5, over 10%, of those pages since going into 2nd place.  This must be some sort of record amongst fan forums.  Most fans would be delighted to be 2nd in their respective league.

A lot of the concern and debate is about the football.  I get it may not be pretty all the time, but I also don’t think it’s as bad as portrayed in here. It reminds me of Mel sacking Clement and coining the infamous “Derby Way” phrase.

I also get the concern about PW in the Championship.  What I would say is, he’ll have far more resources to build a team to stay there than he ever had at Rotherham.

I feel like there’s little point debating it anymore. Those who have concerns about Warne have set their stall, those who are willing to give it more time have set theirs and the pages of to and fro across the forum make it very clear there’s little movement in those mindsets and not much by way of persuasion being considered.

I’m not arguing in support of Warne or saying he should be everyone’s choice for manager, it’s the proverbial p*ssing in the wind at this point, with many holding valid concerns which they’ve expressed many times over.

Results and performances are the only things that will make a difference to those entrenched in either view, and even then, as @TomTom92 said in another thread yesterday, I think it’s plain that Warne just isn’t for some people and regardless of what he does or doesn’t achieve there’s plenty who’ll be glad to see him go when the time comes. I just hope he gets the team promoted and whoever does replace him, whenever and however Warne leaves, perhaps proves less divisive of a character.

Edited February 13 by Caerphilly Ram

[Jimbo Ram]

14 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I feel like there’s little point debating it anymore. Those who have concerns about Warne have set their stall, those who are willing to give it more time have set theirs and the pages of to and fro across the forum make it very clear there’s little movement in those mindsets and not much by way of persuasion being considered.

I’m not arguing in support of Warne or saying he should be everyone’s choice for manager, it’s the proverbial p*ssing in the wind at this point, with many holding valid concerns which they’ve expressed many times over.

Results and performances are the only things that will make a difference to those entrenched in either view, and even then, as @TomTom92 said in another thread yesterday, I think it’s plain that Warne just isn’t for some people and regardless of what he does or doesn’t achieve there’s plenty who’ll be glad to see him go when the time comes. I just hope he gets the team promoted and whoever does replace him, whenever and however Warne leaves, perhaps proves less divisive of a character.

Wazza is available, how about it Macca, bring the fans together 😉