Tyler Durden Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 minute ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: Restricted by finance to sack or courage to act or he thinks we are doing OK. All three are worrying. Yes so basically from top to bottom :- Clowes has made a poor decision in hiring Warne and crystallised that by giving him a 4 year contract He is afraid of making a tough decision He actually thinks that we are doing ok contrary to popular opinion All three are not related to PW but criticisms of DC which seems to be the elephant in the room as I've said previously. BPV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derbydaz22 Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 minute ago, littleover ram said: Mel would have got rid by now. People criticise him, but at last he had ambition and wasn’t willing to settle for mediocrity. He was willing to gamble the clubs entire existence though. Ambitious, jimtastic56, Kathcairns and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkley Ram Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: Yes so basically from top to bottom :- Clowes has made a poor decision in hiring Warne and crystallised that by giving him a 4 year contract He is afraid of making a tough decision He actually thinks that we are doing ok contrary to popular opinion All three are not related to PW but criticisms of DC which seems to be the elephant in the room as I've said previously. A chairman should always, always have more patience than the fans. I've no problems with DC not pulling the trigger just because we're unhappy on a forum/the terraces. You'd also expect him to have someone lined up, were he to sack Warne. Perhaps that work is ongoing behind the scenes, maybe DC has a target he has to wait for, so it makes sense to keep Warne until then. Only Clowes will know. Adslegend, Grumpy Git, Tamworthram and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 6 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: Fair comment but then that brings me back to my other point which is if that's the case then what does DC see that the malcontents on this forum don't? Probably because a) there is a tendency to overreact on forums like this especially after a defeat and b) DC speaks directly to PW on a regular basis I would imagine. Their conversation will no doubt include things PW doesn't want to or can't share with the media and therefore we're not aware of. We can only speculate as to what they discuss, how they feel about the current position and how/when we're likely to get out of it. Walkley Ram and Tyler Durden 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: Probably because a) there is a tendency to overreact on forums like this especially after a defeat and b) DC speaks directly to PW on a regular basis I would imagine. Their conversation will no doubt include things PW doesn't want to or can't share with the media and therefore we're not aware of. We can only speculate as to what they discuss, how they feel about the current position and how/when we're likely to get out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Should be a fairly simple conversation. Paul, do you think you can turn this around and if so, how? If PW says anything along the lines of it just takes time or we have to believe in the process, he should be hooked. RoyMac5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathcairns Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 11 hours ago, Tyler Durden said: Why would anyone want to turn on either person, what material gain would we get from that Agree, but obviously not the opinion of some fans. Tyler Durden 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Just now, Kathcairns said: Agree, but obviously not the opinion of some fans. Am sorry comment wasn't aimed at you. I've just read comments saying that we should demonstrate at the ground to get rid of Warne then the comments about Warne and the players being abused. We're trying to attract staff to the club not drive them away can't think of many managers whom would welcome joining a club where our so called supporters could behave like that to them. Kathcairns, Ewe Ram and jimtastic56 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 21 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: Yes so basically from top to bottom :- Clowes has made a poor decision in hiring Warne and crystallised that by giving him a 4 year contract He is afraid of making a tough decision He actually thinks that we are doing ok contrary to popular opinion All three are not related to PW but criticisms of DC which seems to be the elephant in the room as I've said previously. Yes, David Clowes looks to be culpable but it's Warnes job to prove Clowes right. Critism of Clowes only follows after a poor performance from Warne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Just now, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: Yes, David Clowes looks to be culpable but it's Warnes job to prove Clowes right. Critism of Clowes only follows after a poor performance from Warne. It's the RACI model PW is responsible for the performances of the team DC is accountable for PW doing a decent job The fans should be consulted and also informed as to what the business plan for the club is, whether we're on track etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said: It's the RACI model PW is responsible for the performances of the team DC is accountable for PW doing a decent job The fans should be consulted and also informed as to what the business plan for the club is, whether we're on track etc Don't agree with the third point. Fans shouldn't be consulted but the owner has to be aware of his customers view or he's in danger of losing them. jimtastic56, Jimbo Ram, lrm14 and 3 others 3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Just now, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: Don't agree with the third point. Fans shouldn't be consulted but the owner has to be aware of his customers view or he's in danger of losing them. Maybe a step too far then You do agree with the first two though - DC is accountable if PW is doing a poor job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said: I want him gone before Tuesday so we can try and get 3 points. A crucial 3 points. We both know that's not going to happen, If things don't improve come the next International break then DC has his plate full, I'd wager DC is in a more concerned state of mind than PW is, He's spunked a fortune on buying DCFC and with the conflict after the game with players and fans he'll be hoping for a more supportive game Tuesday...over to you PW and the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: Maybe a step too far then You do agree with the first two though - DC is accountable if PW is doing a poor job Clowes has to be accountable for his choice, no question. Also though Warne is responsible for his own and his staffs performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 45 minutes ago, littleover ram said: Mel would have got rid by now. People criticise him, but at last he had ambition and wasn’t willing to settle for mediocrity. Yep, That ended well didn't it 😉 CBRammette 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: It's the RACI model PW is responsible for the performances of the team DC is accountable for PW doing a decent job The fans should be consulted and also informed as to what the business plan for the club is, whether we're on track etc I really don’t think we should expect the fans to be consulted regarding the business plan for the club. If you did, good luck with deciding which fans to consult that would have a sensible understanding of how football finance really works especially when it’s not their money that’s being spent other than what we spend on match/season tickets of course but that, individually, wouldn’t even register as a drop in the ocean compared to the overall budget. Regarding progress, we’ve been told that the plan is to become an established Championship club within 5 years (or something like that). Maybe DC and PW have a more detailed plan (for example, promotion within 2 years) but if you share that much detail with fans, some would be outraged if realistically the club were targeting promotion after a longer period than any of us want and some would immediately demand the managers head if we found ourselves off track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Rationally thinking, Clowes will onoy make that final decision once he is absolutely certain there is no chance of promotion under Warne. After all, it is his money on the line, so he won't want to potentislly throw millions away unless necessary. I would also find it hard to believe that Clowes would be happy with us sitting midtable all season, then only make a change in the summer. There has to be a tipping point. Taking the emotion out of the decision, I would suggest that tipping point would be needing to average 2 points per game just to squeeze back into the top 6 on the final day. It would take a prolonged period of relegation form to reach the crisis point (such as 12 points from our next 12 games). Realistically, watching us perform as bad as that for such a long time is unlikely without fan discontent growing to unknown levels. The managerial position should be reviewed periodically at set points. For example, we have 4 games until the next international break, and we need to be closer to the top 6 than we currently are. Then there's the half way point at New Year, the next international window (March), leading up to our final 8 or so game run in, with another review after the season has ended. Each time we either need to be in the top 6, or closer to them than at the previous checkpoint. Jimbo Ram, Carnero, Caerphilly Ram and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 I showed some graphs a while back relating to Warne's point per game record compared with other mangers (can't remember which thread it was in). This was around 15 games ago and roughly Warne's 45th in charge. If I recall correctly, I suggested something along the lines of "it'll be important to see if we trend from this point on." At that point, Warne's overall record as very similar to Cocu's after the same number of games, and I argued if we followed a similar trend, Warne will be gone. However, as the graph below shows, our ppg record has ever so slightly increased and is now back to where we were at the end of last season. Under Warne, we're basically a side which confirms a top 6 spot on the final day, like with Rowett and Lampard. As an owner who has set the target of promotion, Clowes will accept this and make the decision at the end of the season depending on how we do in the Playoffs (if we finish there). A drop off in results would be cause for review at this point in the season, and I refer to my post on Sunday for the suitable review periods - the next being after this batch of 6 games (4 in the league, 2 in the cup). To avoid the playoff lottery, we will need to finish in the top 2, with 100 points being the aim at this point. At 2.5 ppg for the rest of the season, that would require Warne's overall ppg record to surpass Mac1's by the end point of my graph, improving on his current 1.60 to 1.92 angieram, Caerphilly Ram and Carnero 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: ...To avoid the playoff lottery, we will need to finish in the top 2, with 100 points being the aim at this point. At 2.5 ppg for the rest of the season, that would require Warne's overall ppg record to surpass Mac1's by the end point of my graph, improving on his current 1.60 to 1.92 We're currently (12 games) 10 points off Oxford in second (12 games) and 13 points off Pompey (13 games) top. It's easily possible to catch one of them - either or both must be due a bad patch, plus play us again too. But it isn't going to happen with Warne in charge of this squad. Clowes has to gamble that Warne won't revert to his Derby type like last season and dip out of the top6 at the end. Or he could admit Warne is a gamble that didn't pay off and cash out and go again! Edited October 24, 2023 by RoyMac5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturn5 Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 Forever grateful for Mr Clowes saving the club, However he has no idea how to run a football club... like all of us, this is why the leech Pearce is still involved - he made the his biggest decision, after taking over, bringing in Warne - no way he will want to admit his 1st major decision was the wrong one. we will have to suffer this dross for a while yet 😭 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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