Derby v Cambridge Match Thread

[Ghost of Clough]

11 hours ago, DavesaRam said:

Pail Warne’s observation that when we tried playing through the middle the passes got blocked misses the fact that he had the wrong player in the key position. He put Waghorn in the number 10 role, and the lad looked lost. He should be up front, although he is happy playing out wide. This is quite ripe for another pro-Sibley comment, so here it is. He was sat on the bench yet again. Warne acknowledges that Sibbers is the best finisher at the club, so when we are struggling to score, why put him on the bench? His best position is at number 10, but when he finally gets on, 65 minutes too late, it is stuck out wide, where Waggy prefers to be! What if Warne had played a number 10 in the number 10 role, instead of giving the job to a player whose only link to the role is having a number 10 on his back?

Because Warne didn't plan to use wingers this season, so didn't sign any in the summer. It means Sibley is one of 3 players we have who can play wide. It  also means we've resorted to playing someone who has spent his whole career at RB/RWB in the RW position.

[TuffLuff]

First time I’ve been able to get to a home game this season and first off I do believe you get a better perspective at games than what you do on RamsTV or the radio.

On RamsTV, I’ve seen a side who are trying to the right things but it coming off and felt they are being unlucky and it’ll all fall into place. At the game, I see a side who miss opportunities to pass and how important a split seconds hesitation is in terms of getting a opposition player out of position and being able to take advantage of the space created. I really like Smith as a footballer, but I saw yesterday how one footed he is and that it can slow the play down as he needs to get it on his right before passing. A few times the gap for Nyambe was lost because the ball didn’t get to him quick enough.

Smith wasn’t the only culprit, the forward line itself seem to lack any sort of nous or ability to anticipate what is going to happen in a phase of play. A ball comes across the box and Barkhuizen is behind the defender at an angle the player can’t possibly cross at, Waghorn generally running around no man’s land. We got in really good positions yesterday but players have to take care of the ball better, have composure and gamble on instinct a lot more than what we are doing.

The big thing I’d want to put across in this, is that players aren’t taking responsibility with the ball. Mendez-Laing in the first minute, the defender has handed it on a plate for him and he’s seen as our main threat. He’s through on goal and can’t get the ball out of his feet, can’t get away from the defenders and places a poor pass to Barkhuizen. Those chances set up the rest of the game, we miss and we continue to struggle to open a real opportunity until we started to look defeated around the 70th minute mark. NML isn’t the only one, I don’t see anyone who is getting hold of the ball, once again gambling on what is happening and the positions of the opposition players. Radio Derby pretty much summed it up in there very good post match coverage yesterday, have we really replaced McGoldrick and how much did his ability cover up for the rest of them?

From what I saw, I don’t see Warne as the issue here. Yes it’s ultimately his responsibility ofcourse. But I do see a style of play that is attacking and what is trying to get forward, but I thought the players let him down yesterday and I dare say that’s been the issue so far this season. But they don’t look clueless, and there’s a huge difference when a team is trying to do the right things and not because when you do the right things it eventually will fall into place.

My one big criticism of Warne is in his post match comments when he’s going ‘oh we played well and x played well’ and…I get what he’s doing in being a bit annoyed after Carlisle and then maybe trying to be over positive after yesterday to encourage the players, but you can’t pull the wool over Derby fans eyes and it’s something he needs to learn. I don’t mean this disrespectfully but we aren’t Rotherham and 18,000 fans might listen to your post match interview, at Derby you are going to get 50,000 at least and half of them know what they saw. You have to be truthful and think about how you want to say something because when it comes out wrong then it gets peoples backs up. We didn’t play bad yesterday, but we didn’t play well either and you have to at least admit that we need to play better just to appease those that are coming to home games. 

That’s my thoughts overall, I think the players need to take responsibility ultimately and I think Warne will get there but let’s be honest and say yesterday wasn’t good enough.

 

[MaltRam]

11 hours ago, DavesaRam said:

His best position is at number 10, but when he finally gets on, 65 minutes too late, it is stuck out wide, where Waggy prefers to be! 

Waggy said at the fans forum that he doesn't like playing on the wing.

That said, I agree about Sibbers as a 10 for half an hour yesterday. 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

The chances we did or didn’t create were on the players individually rather than a systematic error - in my opinion. I would guess that we had more final third entries in the game against Cambridge than we have in any other game this season and quite significantly more.

We worked the ball into crossing opportunities brilliantly but it just didn’t seem to do much with them, that’s on the players decision making and the movement of the strikers. On another day, we win the game comfortably, but it was just one of those days. For me, it was just good to see us dominate a game, regardless of the result.

On the one hand, yes it was one of those days and we should have taken one of the chances we had; but, on the other, working crossing opportunities is only reliably useful if the ones crossing are good at it, and they're not. NML puts in an occasional good one (yesterday it was the one Waggy missed). Barkhuizen can do it from the right. From the left he does a little low pingy thing. Not saying it never works but they're not good at it.

[May Contain Nuts]

There were plenty of games last season where we were the dominant team against poor opposition, stroked it around quite well and created numerous chances.

Just because we'd failed to do it so far this season against anyone but Lincoln's reserves doesn't make yesterday's performance better than anything we've previously seen under Warne as a whole, so I'm not sure yesterday is really the sign of progress some think it is.

Watch the equivalent game from last season - our 1-0 victory at home in December, we dominated that game too, we played very well.

The biggest difference between then and today was that Dobbin's pace terrified them, but we no longer have that pace. It was also the case that his usual profligacy wasn't on show that day -  his goal was also a header quite similar to the one Waghorn missed.

I thought Cambridge's defending yesterday (outside of the c*** up that let NML through in the first minute!) was very good, albeit against a side which looked more toothless and less lacking in ideas than the one they faced a year ago.

[Gerry Daly]

On 30/09/2023 at 11:18, Gerry Daly said:

Fancy us strongly today. We have been improving the last few games and are due a convincing performance at home 

Dear me that aged well

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

First time I’ve been able to get to a home game this season and first off I do believe you get a better perspective at games than what you do on RamsTV or the radio.

On RamsTV, I’ve seen a side who are trying to the right things but it coming off and felt they are being unlucky and it’ll all fall into place. At the game, I see a side who miss opportunities to pass and how important a split seconds hesitation is in terms of getting a opposition player out of position and being able to take advantage of the space created. I really like Smith as a footballer, but I saw yesterday how one footed he is and that it can slow the play down as he needs to get it on his right before passing. A few times the gap for Nyambe was lost because the ball didn’t get to him quick enough.

Smith wasn’t the only culprit, the forward line itself seem to lack any sort of nous or ability to anticipate what is going to happen in a phase of play. A ball comes across the box and Barkhuizen is behind the defender at an angle the player can’t possibly cross at, Waghorn generally running around no man’s land. We got in really good positions yesterday but players have to take care of the ball better, have composure and gamble on instinct a lot more than what we are doing.

The big thing I’d want to put across in this, is that players aren’t taking responsibility with the ball. Mendez-Laing in the first minute, the defender has handed it on a plate for him and he’s seen as our main threat. He’s through on goal and can’t get the ball out of his feet, can’t get away from the defenders and places a poor pass to Barkhuizen. Those chances set up the rest of the game, we miss and we continue to struggle to open a real opportunity until we started to look defeated around the 70th minute mark. NML isn’t the only one, I don’t see anyone who is getting hold of the ball, once again gambling on what is happening and the positions of the opposition players. Radio Derby pretty much summed it up in there very good post match coverage yesterday, have we really replaced McGoldrick and how much did his ability cover up for the rest of them?

From what I saw, I don’t see Warne as the issue here. Yes it’s ultimately his responsibility ofcourse. But I do see a style of play that is attacking and what is trying to get forward, but I thought the players let him down yesterday and I dare say that’s been the issue so far this season. But they don’t look clueless, and there’s a huge difference when a team is trying to do the right things and not because when you do the right things it eventually will fall into place.

My one big criticism of Warne is in his post match comments when he’s going ‘oh we played well and x played well’ and…I get what he’s doing in being a bit annoyed after Carlisle and then maybe trying to be over positive after yesterday to encourage the players, but you can’t pull the wool over Derby fans eyes and it’s something he needs to learn. I don’t mean this disrespectfully but we aren’t Rotherham and 18,000 fans might listen to your post match interview, at Derby you are going to get 50,000 at least and half of them know what they saw. You have to be truthful and think about how you want to say something because when it comes out wrong then it gets peoples backs up. We didn’t play bad yesterday, but we didn’t play well either and you have to at least admit that we need to play better just to appease those that are coming to home games. 

That’s my thoughts overall, I think the players need to take responsibility ultimately and I think Warne will get there but let’s be honest and say yesterday wasn’t good enough.

 

I think I will have to start watching Rams TV with the volume off. Shaun Barker obviously cares but his tendency toward gloom (and offering sweeping summaries/prognoses after 5 minutes) doesn't bring out the best in me!

Smith is honest and decent enough but I'd stop short of saying I "really like" him as a footballer. We can do better and he shouldn't be in our best XI when all are fit.

Agree with you about players not taking responsibility - but it feels like it's not a new thing. We bring in players with experience (at a higher level) and see them do sloppy/bizarre things for us. Is it really all down to them? How do good players look indecisive/confused, and how do they so often make bad decisions? Is it just because we're in League One? Has League One sucked them down to its level? Or is it the result of being given instructions which conflict with their natural game? There was a moment in the Carlisle game when Sibley (playing left-mid) dawdled on the ball and was robbed. Is that because Sibley doesn't have the football brain or ability to navigate that situation? I find that hard to accept. (Whereas NML's clean-through-on-goal to me looked like either the moment got the better of him - maybe it felt like a long time to have the crowd roaring for the certain goal? - or just that he's not that technically gifted; he has pace and a trick, but in the critical moment couldn't get his feet to do what he wanted them to).

Totally agree about Warne's interviews. He evidently got the feedback after "heads turned" so wonder what he'll learn about the reaction of some to his comments yesterday. Possibly nothing; evidently quite a lot of fans thought we played well and were just unfortunate.

[IlsonDerby]

37 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

The chances we did or didn’t create were on the players individually rather than a systematic error - in my opinion. I would guess that we had more final third entries in the game against Cambridge than we have in any other game this season and quite significantly more.

We worked the ball into crossing opportunities brilliantly but it just didn’t seem to do much with them, that’s on the players decision making and the movement of the strikers. On another day, we win the game comfortably, but it was just one of those days. For me, it was just good to see us dominate a game, regardless of the result.

It was a much more relaxing ‘watch’. 
 

as I said afterwards though - it’d be nice if that performance was against Wigan. Think of where the performances would be now 

[Gerry Daly]

1 hour ago, QuitYourJibbaJivin said:

Personally I think PW needs to chose between Wilson and Nyambe and stick with it until 1 drops out. Tried to shoehorn Wilson in and ended up going 5 at the back which was extremely puzzling. 

We are playing 4 at the back and we have 1 right back - Nyambe - and 3 right wingers, NML, Wilson and Ward. I think Barkhuisen prefers to play on the right as well. Bit of a mess isn't it 

[Ghost of Clough]

10 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

It was a much more relaxing ‘watch’. 
 

as I said afterwards though - it’d be nice if that performance was against Wigan. Think of where the performances would be now 

That performance of 90+ minutes was exactly the same of thr last 30 vs Wigan. Whilst Wigan were happy to defend a 2-1 lead, Cambridge were happy with 0-0. Both sides were comfortable doing it, because they knew out only tactic was to get the ball wide and cross it in.

The South Stand concourse was already full after 35 minutes because you just knew we would never score.

[Ghost of Clough]

21 minutes ago, Gerry Daly said:

We are playing 4 at the back and we have 1 right back - Nyambe - and 3 right wingers, NML, Wilson and Ward. I think Barkhuisen prefers to play on the right as well. Bit of a mess isn't it 

Nyambe was a defensive right back (back 4) who started to transition into a RCB (in a back 3/5).

Wilson has always been a RWB.

Ward was a RM (such as in a 442), well suited to RWB (in a back 3/5) who can be RB or RW in other systems.

Barkhuizen was a RM/RW, who had occasionally filled in at LW and CF.

[Topram]

14 hours ago, MickD said:

shouldn’t of come off at all  OF?   Have they rewritten the English language in UK schools?

🔔end

[MickD]

14 hours ago, sunnyhill60 said:

Hardly!

Hourihane does little else but with him absent set pieces were dire throughout

Not my thoughts, just requoting. My laughing emoji though

[Gerry Daly]

4 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Nyambe was a defensive right back (back 4) who started to transition into a RCB (in a back 3/5).

Wilson has always been a RWB.

Ward was a RM (such as in a 442), well suited to RWB (in a back 3/5) who can be RB or RW in other systems.

Barkhuizen was a RM/RW, who had occasionally filled in at LW and CF.

Thanks for that. My point is that if we are now going to play a flat back 4, we have one right back(on a six month contract) and 3 or maybe 4 other players for a more attacking right side position

[Ghost of Clough]

3 minutes ago, Gerry Daly said:

Thanks for that. My point is that if we are now going to play a flat back 4, we have one right back(on a six month contract) and 3 or maybe 4 other players for a more attacking right side position

It's why I think we'll go back to 3/5 at the back - a back 3 of Nyambe, Nelson and Cashin, and 2 of Ward, Wilson, Forsyth and Elder as wing backs.

[Gerry Daly]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

It's why I think we'll go back to 3/5 at the back - a back 3 of Nyambe, Nelson and Cashin, and 2 of Ward, Wilson, Forsyth and Elder as wing backs.

I don't doubt that for one minute. Vomit worthy

[Gaspode]

4 hours ago, Topram said:

🔔end

Should there be a hyphen between the 🔔 and the end?

[Jourdan]

18 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

2 wins from 13 at home. You've yet to even begin to explain that but of course that would ruin you're theory about Warne needing 'time' when he's already had more than a season

Between December and the end of February, we won 7 out of 9 home games, a run of games where we played our best and most clinical football. We were almost faultless. Was that really going to last?

Towards the end of the season, we won one and drew three of our final six home games. The only performance and result that was really genuinely poor and irredeemable was v Fleetwood. 

With Shrewsbury and MK Dons, we pressed self destruct and threw away four points after being in control. With Portsmouth, we came out flying but couldn’t capitalise and ended up having to battle back for a draw. Even against Ipswich, the game hinged on Cashin’s disallowed goal which could have turned the game in our favour after Ipswich had been in control. Those results could have been much different.

Did we deserve just one win in 6? I am not convinced and when you think about it, if things had been slightly different that’s an extra six or seven points that would put a completely different spin on the end of the season. So again, what’s appalling there?

This season, we have won 1 in 5. The way you are carrying on you would think we have lost four in five and been completely outclassed each and every time. The Wigan game could have been a draw if we hadn’t made such critical mistakes. The two draws could have been wins had we taken our chances v Cambridge and kept our heads in the dying seconds v Portsmouth. Would it look so ‘appalling’ if we had three wins and a draw from five?

2 wins in X amount of games it might be, but you can use stats in isolation to paint whatever picture you wish.

[i-Ram]

9 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

2 wins in X amount of games it might be, but you can use stats in isolation to paint whatever picture you wish.

You are a Picasso of waffle.

[RoyMac5]

14 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

This season, we have won 1 in 5. The way you are carrying on you would think we have lost four in five and been completely outclassed each and every time. The Wigan game could have been a draw if we hadn’t made such critical mistakes. The two draws could have been wins had we taken our chances v Cambridge and kept our heads in the dying seconds v Portsmouth. Would it look so ‘appalling’ if we had three wins and a draw from five?

Have we actually looked like we're controlling any of these games though? The 'we'd have won if we hadn't lost' stuff is vastly amusing.