Derby v Cambridge Match Thread

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

This suggests that Clowes is paying Warne the sort of money that Mel paid his managers? Again we are talking of (according to one poster's estimates) £1m to pay Warne and staff off. That is not going to push us to the brink.

Don't forget that our turnover in Division One is lower than in the Championship and Mel was ridiculous in the way he wasted money. Burnley, Norwich, Huddersfield and Reading turned him over big style on the transfer fees for Shackell, Johnson, Butterfield and Blackman because they knew Mel would pay over the odds. Gibson fell out because he thought Boro had got Waghorn until Mel stepped in and offered him double the wages. From what DC has said, he's much more prudent and cutting his cloth accordingly. Warne must be happy with his salary here but maybe it rises if we are promoted? A pay-off probably wouldn't push us to the brink but it keeps us on the treadmill of changing managers every year. We've got to get out of that habit. A pay-off would probably cut the transfer budget. We're not out of the promotion race yet, so time to stay calm in my opinion.

[hintonsboots]

50 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

bringing in Clement who was the most sought after coach in Europe after his time putting out the cones for Ancellotti at Chelsea and Real Madrid 😆.

Quality post.

[ram59]

5 hours ago, Ian Buxton's Bat said:

 

The ref had a decent first half and was pretty rubbish second half without any absolute game-changing shockers. There was was some disgruntlement with only 3 mins added time but even I don't think he was really boo-able at the end.

It was definitely aimed at the ref, the fans already upset that only 3 minutes were added on, were incensed when Sibo was blatantly obstructed when trying to close down a defender, almost American football style. This incident was immediately followed by the final whistle only seconds later.

 

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

 

IMO Warne had a better squad last season, that doesn't mean he won't do better this season maybe. But there aren't many positives to keeping Warne - well there's a whole thread with I think one positive on it, his away form is better than Roseniors.

 

I don't know whether this is a defence or a criticism of Warne, I struggle to believe that there many managers out there that could have avoided losing Knight and Didzy, then having no money to spend on replacements.

Having said that, we haven't replaced Didzy, but the rest of the squad is stronger and more balanced than last season. Who's to know if Didzy's fitness and/or form would have continued this season.

[Foreveram]

1 hour ago, sage said:

He was never going to say, I may have cocked up here, he's got till Christmas

Or he could have said nothing, he was making a point.

[sage]

15 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Or he could have said nothing, he was making a point.

I'm sure it was his intention and still may be, but if we don't finish top 6, he's in trouble.

[Curtains]

18 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Or he could have said nothing, he was making a point.

What point !

[FlyBritishMidland]

4 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

Don't forget that our turnover in Division One is lower than in the Championship and Mel was ridiculous in the way he wasted money. Burnley, Norwich, Huddersfield and Reading turned him over big style on the transfer fees for Shackell, Johnson, Butterfield and Blackman because they knew Mel would pay over the odds. Gibson fell out because he thought Boro had got Waghorn until Mel stepped in and offered him double the wages. From what DC has said, he's much more prudent and cutting his cloth accordingly. Warne must be happy with his salary here but maybe it rises if we are promoted? A pay-off probably wouldn't push us to the brink but it keeps us on the treadmill of changing managers every year. We've got to get out of that habit. A pay-off would probably cut the transfer budget. We're not out of the promotion race yet, so time to stay calm in my opinion.

Catching up this evening and I’m wondering if you’re trying to drive me to drink.  That’s the 2nd post of yours I’ve read in 5 mins where you’ve mentioned Shackell, Johnson, Butterfield and Blackman in the same sentence!!

Quality posts though and I agree with every word 👍.

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

Catching up this evening and I’m wondering if you’re trying to drive me to drink.  That’s the 2nd post of yours I’ve read in 5 mins where you’ve mentioned Shackell, Johnson, Butterfield and Blackman in the same sentence!!

Quality posts though and I agree with every word 👍.

Why do you think that a pay-off would keep us on the treadmill of changing managers every year? And not every managerial change was Mel's choice was it. What will we do if someone head-hunts Warne ala Lampard or Rowett?! 😄

Edited October 2, 2023 by RoyMac5

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

Catching up this evening and I’m wondering if you’re trying to drive me to drink.  That’s the 2nd post of yours I’ve read in 5 mins where you’ve mentioned Shackell, Johnson, Butterfield and Blackman in the same sentence!!

Quality posts though and I agree with every word 👍.

Those purchases I'm afraid instantly scarred me for life. Bradley Johnson did us a good job but Norwich made sure they got top money for him. Shackell had been sold by Nigel Clough for being disruptive within the squad and we bought him back for double what we sold him for; one of the Burnley coaches went public and said their dressing room would be a better place without him and Sean Dyche said that Burnley couldn't afford the wages on offer at Derby. Chris Powell had us over on the price he held out on for Butterfield and then we bought Blackman on the back of the only decent dozen games he'd shone in during his whole career; when he came here he never shone again and we went high again to outbid Sheffield Wednesday for him. With that sort of outlay, sensible recruitment should have guaranteed promotion.

[RoyMac5]

19 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

Those purchases I'm afraid instantly scarred me for life. Bradley Johnson did us a good job but Norwich made sure they got top money for him. Shackell had been sold by Nigel Clough for being disruptive within the squad and we bought him back for double what we sold him for; one of the Burnley coaches went public and said their dressing room would be a better place without him and Sean Dyche said that Burnley couldn't afford the wages on offer at Derby. Chris Powell had us over on the price he held out on for Butterfield and then we bought Blackman on the back of the only decent dozen games he'd shone in during his whole career; when he came here he never shone again and we went high again to outbid Sheffield Wednesday for him. With that sort of outlay, sensible recruitment should have guaranteed promotion.

But we have a new improved recruitment set up don't we? So no need to fear that happening again. So no crazy recruitment and a manger who plays awful on the eye football that we can afford to sack. Next! 😄

[FlyBritishMidland]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Why do you think that a pay-off would keep us on the treadmill of changing managers every year? And not every managerial change was Mel's choice was it. What will we do if someone head-hunts Warne ala Lampard or Rowett?! 😄

In the long-term stability will bring success, in my opinion.  I think if we get rid of Warne now, it sends the message that nothing much as changed.  Once the next manager has a poor run, there’ll be calls for him to be sacked and so it goes.  That’s not say there isn’t room for improvement, of course there is, especially the home form.  What makes you think changing manager will bring success?   It hardly proved fruitful in MM’s tenure.

[FlyBritishMidland]

1 hour ago, Brailsford Ram said:

Those purchases I'm afraid instantly scarred me for life. Bradley Johnson did us a good job but Norwich made sure they got top money for him. Shackell had been sold by Nigel Clough for being disruptive within the squad and we bought him back for double what we sold him for; one of the Burnley coaches went public and said their dressing room would be a better place without him and Sean Dyche said that Burnley couldn't afford the wages on offer at Derby. Chris Powell had us over on the price he held out on for Butterfield and then we bought Blackman on the back of the only decent dozen games he'd shone in during his whole career; when he came here he never shone again and we went high again to outbid Sheffield Wednesday for him. With that sort of outlay, sensible recruitment should have guaranteed promotion.

It really was shocking want it.  Over £3m for Shackell at nearly 33.  A combined £10m for Johnson & Butterfield, all because Hughes & Bryson got injured when dipping into the loan market would have been far more sensible.  And Blackman.  I remember being out in the car when I heard it was between us and Sheff Wed, praying that Sheff Wed would get him.

[europia]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

What will we do if someone head-hunts Warne ala Lampard or Rowett?! 😄

I imagine a few will be popping the champaign cork. 

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

In the long-term stability will bring success, in my opinion.  I think if we get rid of Warne now, it sends the message that nothing much as changed.  Once the next manager has a poor run, there’ll be calls for him to be sacked and so it goes.  That’s not say there isn’t room for improvement, of course there is, especially the home form.  What makes you think changing manager will bring success?   It hardly proved fruitful in MM’s tenure.

Does it need a poor run? Clough Jnr was going nowhere season after season slowly sinking the ship and then rising up again. It could have continued for decades. 😄

I guess if time doesn't matter the fans can wait for Warne to retire. After all what does it matter how much fun the football is or how successful, we still have a club.

Name me a business where the CEO is still the same one as when they were founded. Change happens, what is best if is it is controlled and aimed. I guess it depends what you find acceptable for a club of Derby's stature to be achieving. I see nothing in what Warne is putting forward other than the chance of promotion that would make me proud to be a Derby fan. Mac 1 had us playing the sort of football that made us 'everyone's second team'. It was wild. Lampard, Rowett both had the fans hearts beating faster. Warne is just at best dull.

It's not just where you're going it's how you get there. Sticking with the wrong person because you don't want to sack them makes no sense at all.

[europia]

On 30/09/2023 at 17:57, StaffsRam said:

3 wins from the last 13 home games.

11 goals scored in those 13 games. 

 

That's very poor, but we have to hope for a change of fortune.  Somehow Paul Warne has to get more from an under achieving squad. 

[FlyBritishMidland]

8 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Does it need a poor run? Clough Jnr was going nowhere season after season slowly sinking the ship and then rising up again. It could have continued for decades. 😄

I guess if time doesn't matter the fans can wait for Warne to retire. After all what does it matter how much fun the football is or how successful, we still have a club.

Name me a business where the CEO is still the same one as when they were founded. Change happens, what is best if is it is controlled and aimed. I guess it depends what you find acceptable for a club of Derby's stature to be achieving. I see nothing in what Warne is putting forward other than the chance of promotion that would make me proud to be a Derby fan. Mac 1 had us playing the sort of football that made us 'everyone's second team'. It was wild. Lampard, Rowett both had the fans hearts beating faster. Warne is just at best dull.

It's not just where you're going it's how you get there. Sticking with the wrong person because you don't want to sack them makes no sense at all.

I agree with a lot of what you say.  I think the difference with Clough and Warne is that Clough, who had done a great job, had taken us as far as he could whereas I think Warne can do more.  He’s proven at this level so let’s give him a bit longer to prove it.

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

I agree with a lot of what you say.  I think the difference with Clough and Warne is that Clough, who had done a great job, had taken us as far as he could whereas I think Warne can do more.  He’s proven at this level so let’s give him a bit longer to prove it.

Actually I think Clough left a very good legacy but had reached his limits.

My fear is that Warne's 'style' of chaotic football will permeate through the whole club and we will have a bigger job going back to a possession based game than before Warne arrived. I really cannot understand Clowes thinking in appointing him other than for promotion. I think appointing someone with such a limited view of the game will be to our detriment, whether he is proven at this level or not. 

It's all been said before but anyway I think Warne is a limited, backwards step when I had hoped that the new start in the Club would allow a brighter more innovative modern version of 'the Derby Way' (one of the few things Mel got right, even if never implemented!), ala Rosenior style, if not Rosenior himself.

Edited October 3, 2023 by RoyMac5

[Archied]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Actually I think Clough left a very good legacy but had reached his limits.

My fear is that Warne's 'style' of chaotic football will permeate through the whole club and we will have a bigger job going back to a possession based game than before Warne arrived. I really cannot understand Clowes thinking in appointing him other than for promotion. I think appointing someone with such a limited view of the game will be to our detriment, whether he is proven at this level or not. 

It's all been said before but anyway I think Warne is a limited, backwards step when I had hoped that the new start in the Club would allow a brighter more innovative modern version of 'the Derby Way' (one of the few things Mel got right, even if never implemented!), ala Rosenior style, if not Rosenior himself.

My choice would be a high tempo high pressing style obviously with the ability to find a team mate with a pass , kind of similar to what warne says he wants but is not producing at the moment but there were signs of it at times last season where some games I really enjoyed , if it turns out he can’t produce then warne is gone , I don’t fancy what rosenior was producing but he may well have got it right given time , who knows , managers can talk all they want but what happens on the pitch is the be all and end all 

[FlyBritishMidland]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Actually I think Clough left a very good legacy but had reached his limits.

My fear is that Warne's 'style' of chaotic football will permeate through the whole club and we will have a bigger job going back to a possession based game than before Warne arrived. I really cannot understand Clowes thinking in appointing him other than for promotion. I think appointing someone with such a limited view of the game will be to our detriment, whether he is proven at this level or not. 

It's all been said before but anyway I think Warne is a limited, backwards step when I had hoped that the new start in the Club would allow a brighter more innovative modern version of 'the Derby Way' (one of the few things Mel got right, even if never implemented!), ala Rosenior style, if not Rosenior himself.

Good points.  I like the sort of football Warne talks about but I think we’ve yet to see it in action consistently.  We’ve had it patches, e.g. Lincoln in the pizza cup, but we need to see it week in week out.  If we can get that, it will be far more enjoyable.

[Leeds Ram]

On 01/10/2023 at 09:08, angieram said:

It doesn't.  You said it wasn't a golden chance. I'm saying it would have been if Mendez-Laing had only used his brain! 😘

True!