Derby v Cambridge Match Thread

[nottingram]

13 hours ago, Jourdan said:

I have never said it is acceptable. I have said we are a work in progress and things will improve given some time and with some fine tuning.

You have an affinity for Nigel Clough. Did people expect him to have everything figured out in 08-09 or 09-10? The frustrations only really started to kick in the following season when we slumped from 4th to 19th and lost to Crawley in the FA Cup.

Warne has only just had his first proper transfer window and his first proper attempt at bringing in his own players. He has had 11 competitive games with his own group, a group which has also been heavily hit by injuries.

We have won 5 and lost 4 and we are still very much in touching distance of the top 6.

If we win the next two v Blackpool and Cheltenham, we are right back in the pack of top 6 contenders alongside Bolton, Barnsley and Peterborough where you would expect us to be.

Is it really appalling? For someone who has watched us for 50 plus years, it is a strong statement to make.

Can you specifically point out what exactly you think will improve and how it will happen?

[TINMANTED]

If people watching,or listening to the game did not realise that the booing was for the ref and not for the team,there must be a reason for them to make that mistake 

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, TINMANTED said:

If people watching,or listening to the game did not realise that the booing was for the ref and not for the team,there must be a reason for them to make that mistake 

Yes perhaps so, I wondered whether the 'ref booing' gave cover to wanting general frustration booing, because the ref was generally okay.

[Ian Buxton's Bat]

4 minutes ago, TINMANTED said:

If people watching,or listening to the game did not realise that the booing was for the ref and not for the team,there must be a reason for them to make that mistake 

I was at the game.

I do boo refs, opposition players, managers, coaches and fans but never my team.......but I felt the booing was aimed at the team/result/pissed-offedness at the home form rather than the ref. I may be wrong.

FWIW I don't think the team deserved to be booed off at all.

The ref had a decent first half and was pretty rubbish second half without any absolute game-changing shockers. There was was some disgruntlement with only 3 mins added time but even I don't think he was really boo-able at the end.

[Mucker1884]

15 minutes ago, TINMANTED said:

If people watching,or listening to the game did not realise that the booing was for the ref and not for the team,there must be a reason for them to make that mistake 

The reasoning behind my own query was due to someone on here remarking that they were aimed at the team (Or Warne?  Can't remember now, but was definitely DCFC, not the officials).  🤷‍♂️
That took be by surprise in all honesty, hence me querying it.

Live and at the scene, I just took it as being aimed at the ref... as I dashed out down the stairs, silently frustrated at the whole afternoon!

 

 

*I bet if we could do a poll of all those actually booing, I'd wager 60% wouldn't know why, or to whom they were aimed, and they'd tick the box marked "Because others were"!  👀

[Jourdan]

1 hour ago, nottingram said:

Can you specifically point out what exactly you think will improve and how it will happen?

Yes.

I think we have a stable and settled back four now, so we should improve defensively and make fewer errors. Already we can see that with three clean sheets in a row.

I think we will play better football through midfield when Bird returns and can be paired with Fornah. Hourihane and Thompson returning will bring us added variety and flexibility and the option to go to a 4-3-3.

I think we will be more effective out wide and in forward areas when Ward returns. He is a good threat with his crossing. It will also take the burden away from NML to play every game and play far longer than he is. Similarly with John Jules.

[Archied]

1 hour ago, TINMANTED said:

If people watching,or listening to the game did not realise that the booing was for the ref and not for the team,there must be a reason for them to make that mistake 

Bias 😂?

[Walkley Ram]

1 hour ago, TINMANTED said:

If people watching,or listening to the game did not realise that the booing was for the ref and not for the team,there must be a reason for them to make that mistake 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

That's the flaw in your logic, what if Clowes knows as much about appointing football managers as Mel Morris? 😄

You know very well Roy my views on the polar opposites of the two personalities; if you look at the Administration Thread, I was on my soapbox about that as soon as David Clowes became the preferred bidder. I'm absolutely 100% certain that he understands football and business in far more depth than Mel ever did. Mel Morris was not a lifelong fan of Derby County, he reinvented himself as such when he bought the club with his Candy Crush windfall. He thought that he could just get his fat wallet out and buy an instant ticket for entry to the Premier League. He had an ego as big as Robert Maxwell's; their flawed egos were fundamental to their undoing.

David Clowes motives are very different. His purchase of the club was clearly not business driven but born out of the horror of watching our club sliding towards oblivion. through the reckless folly of `Morris. He did what all of us like to think we'd have done in his position but it was motivated by his love of the club not by his wealth. Thank goodness he was there to save us from the last rites. He's an avid fan who understands football like a lot of avid fans; Mel was never that. He won't be showboating alongside the likes of Frank Lampard and Wayne Rooney because he knows we can't afford it and never could. That's why we've got Paul Warne and so be it, for better or worse. But I guesstimate that Morris wasted £35m on paying contract settlements to Sam Rush, Keogh and the managers who stepped through the revolving doors at Pride Park during his relatively short tenure. Those days are over. We were actually well overspent by as early as 2015 when Morris threw his war chest  at Paul Clement who he then pushed through the door within six months. We never recovered from that and when Mel rolled his final dice against Villa at Wembley and lost, the game was as good as up. We are now more stable than we have been since GSE sold out to Morris. That'll do for me and I feel confident we'll climb back stronger; patience is needed because we simply don't know how long it will take. Such are the frustrations of being a football fan and I know that I don't always stick to the discipline we require 😂.

COYR

[RoyMac5]

43 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

You know very well Roy my views on the polar opposites of the two personalities; if you look at the Administration Thread, I was on my soapbox about that as soon as David Clowes became the preferred bidder. I'm absolutely 100% certain that he understands football and business in far more depth than Mel ever did. Mel Morris was not a lifelong fan of Derby County, he reinvented himself as such when he bought the club with his Candy Crush windfall. He thought that he could just get his fat wallet out and buy an instant ticket for entry to the Premier League. He had an ego as big as Robert Maxwell's; their flawed egos were fundamental to their undoing.

David Clowes motives are very different. His purchase of the club was clearly not business driven but born out of the horror of watching our club sliding towards oblivion. through the reckless folly of `Morris. He did what all of us like to think we'd have done in his position but it was motivated by his love of the club not by his wealth. Thank goodness he was there to save us from the last rites. He's an avid fan who understands football like a lot of avid fans; Mel was never that. He won't be showboating alongside the likes of Frank Lampard and Wayne Rooney because he knows we can't afford it and never could. That's why we've got Paul Warne and so be it, for better or worse. But I guesstimate that Morris wasted £35m on paying contract settlements to Sam Rush, Keogh and the managers who stepped through the revolving doors at Pride Park during his relatively short tenure. Those days are over. We were actually well overspent by as early as 2015 when Morris threw his war chest  at Paul Clement who he then pushed through the door within six months. We never recovered from that and when Mel rolled his final dice against Villa at Wembley and lost, the game was as good as up. We are now more stable than we have been since GSE sold out to Morris. That'll do for me and I feel confident we'll climb back stronger; patience is needed because we simply don't know how long it will take. Such are the frustrations of being a football fan and I know that I don't always stick to the discipline we require 😂.

COYR

Yes, yes very applaudable. But I repeat Clowes knows as much about appointing football managers as did Mel Morris, although Clowes has Pearce and Mel had Sam Rush! You didn't answer that point, just said that we'd now got Warne!

Yes, stability is a good thing, stagnation is not. You can change managers without spiralling wildly out of financial control you know?! 

#COYR

[DazzaRam]

Everybody has an opinion obviously but this squad should be playing better. We havent played well at home in ages....probably Morecambe last season. We have had injuries this season i know but that is only glossing over stuff. I was alarmed how Warne's subtitutions on Saturday actually made Cambridge a threat!! I also feel Warne will eventually go wing backs. Ward will be back soon so wheres he gonna play? Wilson? He will look to play Nyambe in a 3. I can see it now. This squad is good enough for Top 2. I have no doubts on that but they aint playing like a Top 2 side and thats down to Warne. 

[i-Ram]

7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Yes, yes very applaudable. But I repeat Clowes knows as much about appointing football managers as did Mel Morris, although Clowes has Pearce and Mel had Sam Rush! You didn't answer that point, just said that we'd now got Warne!

Yes, stability is a good thing, stagnation is not. You can change managers without spiralling wildly out of financial control you know?! 

#COYR

We still know little as yet about David Clowes decision making, but even a Warne botherer like me can see his reasons for going for him. He did have a CV with evidence to support he could get out of this league, and by all accounts he is a good ‘club man’. I recall Clowes put a lot of emphasis on researching him and admiring his man management skills, and whilst I would have kept Rosenior, again there was logic for sweeping the decks completely clean, and bringing in a new person to lift the general mood. Not sure that all merited a 4 year contract, but perhaps there are performance benchmark clauses in there covering years 3 and 4? Anyway, the point I am making is we might know more about Clowes decision making in the months ahead. I think his breath will already be on Warne’s back, because as a owner and a fan he will know there is not a good feel out there at the moment. Warne needs to start getting some results that’s the bottom line. He has in my opinion a squad that should finish in the top two this season. He needs to stop talking the talk, and provide evidence of his walking the walk.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, i-Ram said:

We still know little as yet about David Clowes decision making, but even a Warne botherer like me can see his reasons for going for him. He did have a CV with evidence to support he could get out of this league, and by all accounts he is a good ‘club man’. I recall Clowes put a lot of emphasis on researching him and admiring his man management skills, and whilst I would have kept Rosenior, again there was logic for sweeping the decks completely clean, and bringing in a new person to lift the general mood. Not sure that all merited a 4 year contract, but perhaps there are performance benchmark clauses in there covering years 3 and 4? Anyway, the point I am making is we might know more about Clowes decision making in the months ahead. I think his breath will already be on Warne’s back, because as a owner and a fan he will know there is not a good feel out there at the moment. Warne needs to start getting some results that’s the bottom line. He has in my opinion a squad that should finish in the top two this season. He needs to stop talking the talk, and provide evidence of his walking the walk.

No we know little about DCs decision-making other than he had no qualms about removing an honourable man, with plenty of admirable character traits, who had stuck with the Club throughout the admin process, even turning down the Blackpool job (I know it was only Nixon that says he had an offer, but...).

We can imagine we know his reasoning in appointing Warne, but not much of his reasoning seems to be bearing fruit? He failed at Top 6 last season. His recruitment this season has been lacking. He seems mostly uninterested in our expensive Category 1 Academy. The football quality is questionable. But he has a long contract. So we'll see whether more decisions are made.

IMO Warne had a better squad last season, that doesn't mean he won't do better this season maybe. But there aren't many positives to keeping Warne - well there's a whole thread with I think one positive on it, his away form is better than Roseniors.

 

[i-Ram]

12 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

No we know little about DCs decision-making other than he had no qualms about removing an honourable man, with plenty of admirable character traits, who had stuck with the Club throughout the admin process, even turning down the Blackpool job (I know it was only Nixon that says he had an offer, but...).

We can imagine we know his reasoning in appointing Warne, but not much of his reasoning seems to be bearing fruit? He failed at Top 6 last season. His recruitment this season has been lacking. He seems mostly uninterested in our expensive Category 1 Academy. The football quality is questionable. But he has a long contract. So we'll see whether more decisions are made.

IMO Warne had a better squad last season, that doesn't mean he won't do better this season maybe. But there aren't many positives to keeping Warne - well there's a whole thread with I think one positive on it, his away form is better than Roseniors.

We don't know Clowes had no qualms, do we?

I agree up to this point there hasn't been much to support the Warne appointment. Just to confirm (which I am sure you know) I wouldnt have appointed him in the first place.

In respect of positives, I don't know how much Warne is respected and liked by his playing squad. If he is, that would be a very big positive, and perhaps give some reason for hope.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Yes, yes very applaudable. But I repeat Clowes knows as much about appointing football managers as did Mel Morris, although Clowes has Pearce and Mel had Sam Rush! You didn't answer that point, just said that we'd now got Warne!

Yes, stability is a good thing, stagnation is not. You can change managers without spiralling wildly out of financial control you know?! 

#COYR

I am firmly of the view that the amount of money Mel spent on paying off sacked managers was a major factor in us 'spiralling wildly out of financial control.'

David Clowes has not yet sacked a manager or head coach; Liam was only an interim appointment which he decided not to make permanent. He said from the outset that he wants to get us out of that habit.

In contrast, Mel sacked Mac1 and I know that you firmly believe that was his biggest mistake. When he did that, Paul Simpson wanted to remain as the assistant coach; he was angry that Mac had taken the pay-off and gone to Newcastle. But Mel accused Simmo of encouraging and being part of kindling Ashley's pursuit of Mac and sacked him too. Simmo stood his ground and Morris had pay him off too. Simmo was furious at Mac and blamed him too; Mac smoothed things over and took Simmo to Newcastle. Eric Steele wanted to stay as the goalkeeping coach and Clement said yes, without asking Morris. Eric remained and went on holiday but when he got back Clement said he'd changed his mind and wanted to bring in Pascal Zuberbuhler to replace him. The reality was that Mel said Eric had to go too because he was part of the Ashley conspiracy too. Eric was fuming but took his pay-off and went to work for England. The compensation all added to the quite hefty bill in bringing in Clement who was the most sought after coach in Europe after his time putting out the cones for Ancellotti at Chelsea and Real Madrid 😆. After spending the war-chest on Shackell, Johnson, Butterfield, Blackman and others, it dawned on Mel four months later that contrary to his summer thoughts that Clement could not do it 'The Derby Way,' whatever that ever was! So out of the door went Clement with us sitting in the top six of the Championship and another hefty chunk of compo to be added to the bill while Wassall stepped up to return us to the Derby Way before returning to the academy when he didn't get us up by the end of the season!

In May 2016, Mel appointed Pearson and he'd gone along with Idiakez by early October when Chris Powell stepped up for a couple of games before Mac2 returned with the brief of getting us away from the relegation areas, which he did splendidly until March when he got the boot again following a disappointing performance at Brighton. Off he went with another sack of compo to boot. Two months later, it was Sam Rush's turn which ended up with a £7.5m pay-off and then we had Keogh and his bill for Joinersgate. It's small wonder that we didn't go bust long before we did looking back!

I have no idea how we could have avoided spiralling out of control financially by avoiding these expensive pay offs. It seems that Mel had no idea either. I don't know if David Clowes has the secret and I don't know Paul Warne's contractual arrangements. But I would be very surprised if his advisers had not ensured him and his coaches some considerable security in the event of early termination before they signed the contracts, particularly given the short lifespan that Derby managers have enjoyed or not in the recent past.

David Clowes is on record as saying he wants to get away from this continual instability and I thought most of us agreed given the grief we've been through. That search for stability seems to be part of the package now. I don't see any intention for us to stagnate but the recovery may take a bit longer than we had hoped. I think that's what Forest, Leeds, Sunderland, Ipswich and Portsmouth before us have found and we'll just have to keep taking the medicine until we recover.

Now is not yet the time to judge Paul Warne until he's had sufficient time to get us back up in my opinion. I know that many will disagree. But that's the trend in the hire and fire mentality of modern football.

 

[Foreveram]

52 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

No we know little about DCs decision-making other than he had no qualms about removing an honourable man, with plenty of admirable character traits, who had stuck with the Club throughout the admin process, even turning down the Blackpool job (I know it was only Nixon that says he had an offer, but...).

We can imagine we know his reasoning in appointing Warne, but not much of his reasoning seems to be bearing fruit? He failed at Top 6 last season. His recruitment this season has been lacking. He seems mostly uninterested in our expensive Category 1 Academy. The football quality is questionable. But he has a long contract. So we'll see whether more decisions are made.

IMO Warne had a better squad last season, that doesn't mean he won't do better this season maybe. But there aren't many positives to keeping Warne - well there's a whole thread with I think one positive on it, his away form is better than Roseniors.

 

Clowes told me face to face that people need to realise this is a long term project, that’s good enough for me.

[RoyMac5]

24 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

I have no idea how we could have avoided spiralling out of control financially by avoiding these expensive pay offs. It seems that Mel had no idea either.

This suggests that Clowes is paying Warne the sort of money that Mel paid his managers? Again we are talking of (according to one poster's estimates) £1m to pay Warne and staff off. That is not going to push us to the brink.

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

This suggests that Clowes is paying Warne the sort of money that Mel paid his managers? Again we are talking of (according to one poster's estimates) £1m to pay Warne and staff off. That is not going to push us to the brink.

Yes but some of us don’t want to change manager and staff at any price. 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Curtains said:

Yes but some of us don’t want to change manager and staff at any price. 

And some of us do. 

[sage]

36 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Clowes told me face to face that people need to realise this is a long term project, that’s good enough for me.

He was never going to say, I may have cocked up here, he's got till Christmas