We are a fickle bunch

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, DRBee said:

The sanctimonious few always use this ( wanting one's own team to lose) as what they see as a "trump card" without any evidence. Whereas  life long supporters know that wanting derby to win always kicks in, even if after a loss, that loss is used to justify one's own opinions. You take it to a whole new level in claiming some want the Rams to lose a whole load of games. I can't imagine going to a game and wanting us to lose - much easier to stay at home if I felt like that.

Do explain re (b) how merely wanting Derby to lose  can magically  make it more likely the manager will be sacked.

To be fair, the proposition could be read in more than one way and was probably intended as:

[take great delight for us] as a club to lose the next x amount of games to make him more likely to be removed from his job

In other words, the losing x games makes it more likely the manager is removed, and then those fans take great delight in that result; 

not

those fans take great delight in losing x games, and then the manager is removed as a result of the delight

(If you see what I mean?)

[davenportram]

25 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

Think this is an odd thread as surely by suffering a lifetime of angst as Derby fans we are as opposite to fickle as it is possible to be? 

Our opinions seem to change hour to hour some days - fickle

[8Leeds]

I want Paul to succeed, I like him and his back room staff. I understand that they are working under restrictions as we’re are a club on the rebuild and appreciate that it’s not an easy job.

The only issue for me is tactics. I don’t like how we seem to be defending currently, I think we’re over exposed for the counter. Our three centre backs should play as centre backs and if both wing backs are pushing on one of the midfielders needs to screen the back three.

Attacking wise I’d like us to take a step back slightly from the high press to allow us a little more room to create space in the build up to an attack.

My only managerial experience in football comes from decades of FIFA so my opinions worth nothing. Apologies to Paul and all if my suggestions sound like nothing but anal dribble.

Up the Rams

Edited August 10, 2023 by 8Leeds

[Tamworthram]

48 minutes ago, On the Ram Page said:

What are your constructive criticisms then? What are your solutions to our current position?

I’m not sure all criticism on a forum like this needs to be constructive. It’s not as if we’re doing a one to one performance review. But it does need to be mature, sensible and measured.
Saying something like “I thought X had a poor game and really should have buried those easy chances” or “IMO Y looked terrible and got caught in possession too often” aren’t necessarily constructive comments but they could be considered as reasonable expressions of opinion. On the other hand, referring to our established players as a donkey or saying something like “I never want to see him pull a Derby shirt on again” are not particularly appropriate in my opinion.

[Steve Buckley’s Dog]

I think Derby fans are in general excellent. The atmosphere in Pride Park is significantly better than a lot of grounds. Take a look at Leicester, for example, the atmosphere there was toxic pretty quickly after winning league and cup. We’d all still be on a ten year bender if we actually won something! The incredible atmosphere and togetherness during the relegation season is unlikely to be repeated though as it was a set of circumstances galvanising an entire city, so we can’t really expect that again, unfortunately.

As for saying that some fans want us to lose just to prove a point, that’s quite frankly ridiculous. I thought Nick Blackman was s*** from the moment I saw him, it didn’t mean I got on his back and wanted him to miss chances to prove my opinion right. I would much rather he proved me wrong. People raising concerns about signings, a manager or player’s ability, financial matters, tactics etc is surely what this place is for. If we disagree with others then that’s life isn’t it but accusing others of wanting their own team to lose is just daft for me. 

[RoyMac5]

22 minutes ago, davenportram said:

Our opinions seem to change hour to hour some days - fickle

My opinion that Derby are still a big club and even though under some financial restrictions, should be easily challenging for top 6 in league 1 has never changed.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

My opinion that Derby are still a big club and even though under some financial restrictions, should be easily challenging for top 6 in league 1 has never changed.

Interesting - when you say “should be”: on what basis? The size of the gate (and therefore the revenue)? A sense of natural justice? (Derby fans/DCFC deserve at least this?) Something else?

[FindernRam]

Not surprised by the fickleness!  It is in all forms of society and basically its "I want it all and I want it now!". Football incites passion so when expectations, realistic or otherwise are not met the howls go up.

If you think its bad now, wait and see what happens if we lose to Burton!

[cstand]

10 hours ago, sage said:

Oh I didn't say it had any effect on me 😀

I would add that not everything has to polarised opposites. You can criticise Warne without calling for him to be sacked. You can question our budgets without wanting to spunk £6m on Bradley Johnson. You can suggest we have bought very slow. CB without personally trying to melt him down for glue. Most people are putting together constructive criticisms and are being met with scorn and personal attacks.

The main issue is we have a manager who wants to play a high tempo pressing game and we have bought slow, ageing players to add to an already slow ageing squad.

If anyone has a convincing solution to that quandary, which involves a slow back line and a pedestrian CM supporting slow CFs in a successful and cohesive high press, I'll have more faith.

Till then I'll remain a sceptic.   

 

Agree with you Sage. With the players that we have at the moment we simply cannot play high press tactics, I would prefer a 4-4-2 formation sit back and defend hit teams on the break.
Just make it difficult for the opposition to score and stop making mistakes.

 

 

 

 

 

[RoyMac5]

20 minutes ago, jameso said:

Interesting - when you say “should be”: on what basis? The size of the gate (and therefore the revenue)? A sense of natural justice? (Derby fans/DCFC deserve at least this?) Something else?

Why does that matter, the point was 'we're a fickle bunch'. I'm also old enough to remember a decent amount of Derby's history.

[cstand]

12 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

Not surprised by the fickleness!  It is in all forms of society and basically its "I want it all and I want it now!". Football incites passion so when expectations, realistic or otherwise are not met the howls go up.

If you think its bad now, wait and see what happens if we lose to Burton!

The worse part so far this season has been recruiting the type of players we need with pace and stamina to last 90 minutes plus we need a Shinnie type player to help boss the midfield and a player to replace Mcgoldrick.

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by cstand

[RoyMac5]

Just now, cstand said:

The worse part so far this season has been recruiting the type of players we need with pace and stamina to last 90 minutes plus we need a Shinnie type player to help boss the midfield and a player to replace Mcgoldrick.

Where would he play? Warne didn't seem to know where to play Knight.

[davenportram]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Why does that matter, the point was 'we're a fickle bunch'. I'm also old enough to remember a decent amount of Derby's history.

I’m old enough to remember attendances of under 15,000 in the promotion year 87. Fickle. If we dint go up this year attendances will fall and it will be even harder to get out of this division

[cstand]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Where would he play? Warne didn't seem to know where to play Knight.

Centre midfield I would never play Houriane and Bird together in centre midfield if we had a Shinnie type player.

Edited August 10, 2023 by cstand

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, davenportram said:

I’m old enough to remember attendances of under 15,000 in the promotion year 87. Fickle. If we dint go up this year attendances will fall and it will be even harder to get out of this division

All we needed was the right manager?

[duncanjwitham]

8 hours ago, DerbyAleMan said:

I can remember the great bald Eagle having a terrible start to the season, I was at Tranmere away, Stimac debut, he scored we lost 5-1, I think we won 1, drew 1 and lost 3 of our first 5 games that season thats 4 points from 15 , fans screaming for Jimbo to do one, then come May we are promoted, we move to PP, and played some of the best football for years, lets all get behind our club, it's to early to panic, but after what Mel did to us, we must give our club time to recover, and we will. Once A Ram Always A Ram. 

The big difference there, is that it was Jim Smiths first season in charge.  He'd barely been here 5 minutes, so you have to give a manager time to get something set up.  Paul Warne has been here nearly a year, and has anything improved? Like anything at all?  We still can't beat the top teams (which I assume Wigan and Blackpool are going to be).  We still don't seem to have any organised defensive or pressing structure.  We still keep gifting stupid goals away.  We still don't seem to have any clear pattern of play going forward.  We still don't create enough chances.  We still don't take enough of the chances we create.  The players we already have seem incapable of playing the system Warne wants.  The players we've *signed* seem mostly incapable of playing it too.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Why does that matter, the point was 'we're a fickle bunch'. I'm also old enough to remember a decent amount of Derby's history.

Well if it doesn’t matter to you then I suppose it doesn’t matter 🤣

I understand the thread is about fickleness of fans and you’re saying you’re not fickle because you have a consistent expectation.

But for me, I was trying to understand (at least in your case) what it is about us/you/the club which means we “should be” Top 6 in League 1 even in adversity. If you mean the players/management would have no excuse for finishing lower than that, then don’t you have a reason for that view?

[RoyMac5]

8 minutes ago, jameso said:

If you mean the players/management would have no excuse for finishing lower than that, then don’t you have a reason for that view?

Yes. Throughout the period of our history I remember when we have had a good manager, or even a limited manager that realises it, we have done well (enough?). For me there is no excuse for Warne not challenging (well tbh gaining) promotion from this division. It's based on who we are and what 'resources' we have.

You may not agree, that is fine.

[Mr. P]

For me the season don’t start really till about mid September. By then the transfer window is shut, new signings are getting up to speed, any less serious injuries from pre season are clearing up. And isn’t October usually where we start to click? 

[Sparkle]

I m not fickle but I do want to see incoming signings improving us and it’s obvious that Knight and McGoldrick moving on has taken a lot out of the side from last year.

So far Ward looks decent in an attacking sense and Elder will be a steady full back plus we generally know what Waghorn can bring and it’s the third division that we are in and a proper reserve keeper is good. Our central midfield looks ponderous and our triple central defenders have so far been completely isolated from each other and devoid of pace.

we have taken NML away from his preferred and best position attacking the right flank and he is our only threat unless opposing defenders miss their headers because we won’t be winning many in the penalty area. The lad Wilson looks tricky going forward but appears to absolutely not attempt to do any defending which will prove to be a major problem if deployed at full back

Sibley and Barkhauzen are now cast as our saviours because they can contribute when actually given the chance.

Forsyth already stars in the role of mr positive consistent. 
Adding Rooney and Tompson into the starting X1 might make us look as if we can keep up with some of the opposition.

I am not fickle - let me know what I have missed so far