Is Warne living on borrowed time?

[Kingpin]

The odd interview comments suggest to me that something terminal has already taken place. 

[teddyb16]

Watched both games so far and certainly against Blackpool the passing was too side to side and not incisive enough. 

I do wonder if the age balance is right. He is asking this group to get him out the division but liklihood is over 3/4 of the squad wouldn't feature in the Championship. It woild need a radical overhaul again. I can't see Forsyth, Smith, Hourihane, NML, Barkhuizen, Collins, Waghorn, Thompson, Bird (likely sold on) being in a starting XI a division higher. 

The captaincy thing was an odd one too. I've seen under 12s teams choose their captain by vote but am pretty sure at this level the Manager appoints the man he sees as an extension of him and his values. Can't help but think this might have narked Sonny Bradley who may have been brought in on a Captaincy promise but it hasn't materialised. All what ifs and maybes and we will probably tank Burton by 5 with a Collins hat trick 

[StantonRam]

hi all

What most concerns me about PW is his inability to just shut up when necessary.  Rambling interview answers, accidental revelations of what should be confidential and kept within the squad - he does seem to be verbally incontinent TBH and this needs to change.

In your workplace, if your boss (who after all is responsible for your career) wanted you plaster your cubicle with photos of your family and asked inappropriate questions about them all the time, how long would it be before you reported that boss to HR?  Players are entitled, as professionals in the public eye, to a private life and to confidentiality.  Some of the stuff he says on the radio makes even me squirm, so I wonder how some players must feel?

At what point does concern for his employees well-being morph into just David Brent-isms?  I wonder if we have now passed Peak Warne?  A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.  A footballer who has read a few Psychology books is also a dangerous thing.  This, remember, is a profession in which Roy Hodgson is regarded as a high level intellectual and Eric Cantona is apparently a philosopher by virtue of having a French accent and talking b******s.

I'm not accusing PW of any malice at all, but I do accuse him of naivety in the extreme.  There is a reason why most managers choose their words carefully in interviews.  Also, an apparent lack of verbal and cognitive discipline in public makes one wonder if he isn't actually similarly disorganised in other respects and relying on his staff to make the difficult calls behind the scenes.  Note also the "election" of the team captain, which is actually a complete abdication of his own responsibility to decide who has the necessary leadership qualities to wear the armband, accept the responsibility for that choice, and appoint the right player.  A football team is not a democracy.  

PW is very typical of the modern zeitgeist, in which everyone is all nicey-nicey on the surface, but underneath lurks a refusal to (a) grow up and accept the passing of time, (b) accept adulthood and the burdens and tough decisions that go with it and (c) accept that we can't be all things to all people all the time.

At this club, bobble hats and bull***t will only take you so far.  He has adjusted badly to being at a larger club with much more press and public scrutiny, and the signs are that it's gone to his head.  Time to cut the c**p and focus on delivery IMO.

"Popularity is a crime from the moment that it is SOUGHT".  No employer can ever keep everyone completely happy all the time, it just isn't possible, especially when you have 22 players competing for 11 starting places.  Gaining respect is more important to a manager than cultivating popularity, and respect lasts longer than popularity too.  In seeking popularity, my thesis is that PW has actually lost the respect of many people, hence the flat performances.  And a desire to be universally popular is nothing more than the manifestation of his own inner insecurity, and if he is to address that properly then he needs to take a sabbatical.  Failing that, just rig him up to a machine that delivers an electric shock if any answer to a question goes on longer than 30 seconds.  A few days of that should do it LOL.

If PW lived up to his own hype, we should see (a) a team greater than the sum of the parts, (b) in an appropriate formation, (c) busting a gut for the manager and the club.  So what happened?  Last seasons' tropes are already evident again this season - lack of imagination, fragile under pressure, losing games in the last 15 minutes, wrong formation for the strengths of the available players etc etc.

Warne lovers, by all means disagree or tell me I'm wrong.  However, when he was appointed we were 7th and we finished...7th.  Not a disaster, but not earth-shattering either.  

[NottsRam77]

you do know hes been promoted from this league 3 times, so for all his ramblings , all his waffle, all his crappy jokes quirks and bobble hats there is a manager who knows what hes doing in this league in there.

he wouldnt be the first manager to struggle to turn hms derby county in the right direction and to their destination of choice.

Im totally on the fence with him but for the short to mid term im prepared to suck it up and see where we end up cos weve done the manager marry go round approach and it nearly killed the club

we appear to still be slightly restricted with this 2 year business plan, the details of which none of us know

tbh, im just happy we have a club and a manager who history suggests knows how to get us out of this leaugue.. clowes gave him a 4 year deal so im happy to let him see at least half of that out before passing judgement 

but thats just me

Edited August 11, 2023 by NottsRam77

[RoyMac5]

57 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

you do know hes been promoted from this league 3 times, so for all his ramblings , all his waffle, all his crappy jokes quirks and bobble hats there is a manager who knows what hes doing in this league in there.

he wouldnt be the first manager to struggle to turn hms derby county in the right direction and to their destination of choice...

With Rotherham. Where I imagine he could just be 'one of the lads' loved by everyone for the effort he put into doing an at times unpleasant job. He never wanted to be a manager did he? That shows.

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, NottsRam77 said:

you do know hes been promoted from this league 3 times, so for all his ramblings , all his waffle, all his crappy jokes quirks and bobble hats there is a manager who knows what hes doing in the league in there.

he wouldnt be the first manager to struggle to turn hms derby county in the right direction and to their destination of choice.

Im totally on the fence with him but for the short to mid term im prepared to suck it up and see where we end up cos weve done the manager marry go round approach and it nearly killed the club

we appear to still be slightly restricted with this 2 year business plan, the details of which none of us know

tbh, im just happy we have a club and a manager who history suggests knows how to get us out of this leaugue.. clowes gave him a 4 year deal so im happy to let him see at least half of that out before passing judgement 

but thats just me

Hmmm

History suggests he knew how to get Rotherham out of the league, but that doesn't necessarily mean it shows he knows how to get Derby out of it.

History only shows that in his one attempt so far to get Derby out of the league, he failed. He took a team which should have been capable of finishing in the top 6 and finished 7th, missing out by a solitary point. I think most people can see that there were enough opportunities for him to have managed his way to achieving that extra point, but also enough examples of where his lack of tactical nous and in-game management directly lead to us not getting it 

What good has his record at at Rotherham done for us so far? If anything his favoured 3/5 at the back system being forced on players it doesn't suit has hindered us rather than helped us. Considering he "knows what he's doing", that's one of the hallmarks of a manager who doesn't.

Nevertheless I agree, always have, that we need to stick with him and see it out (unless it becomes impossible to see how we progress).

He does come with a vaunted reputation. He had been described in many glowing terms and is considered the most successful League One manager in recent history ("if not of all time" was a quote from one poster last year!), with his past record usually pointed toward as proof that those who are being critical of him are almost certainly going to be proven wrong, and should wait until it everything has played out, until he has his own team in place (etc) before raising their head above the parapet.

What I do find an oddity though, is the way some of the same posters holding his past record up in this manner are the ones who get really mardy and dismissive of you if you use the same record to point out that you expect(ed) better/more from him, but surely what's good for the goose is good for the gander? Apparently not.

When they see someone criticising him, they leap to his defence as this excellent manager, this "greater than the sum of its parts" team building promotion expert with the proven methods which will come good, and those complaining are given labels making them out to be anti-warners who just don't like him, are happy for us to lose to expedite his departure, and don't know what they're talking about.

When it comes to their own expectations/assessment it's like they're talking about a rookie manager just making his was in the game, one who shouldn't be judged on anything he does and should be wrapped in cotton wool, with no expectations placed on him.

The fact is that Warne's credentials should give us a competitive advantage over our rivals. So far, they haven't. So far. And while a big part of his job is to help us build a new culture throughout the club (doing a good job), he's primarily here to get the club promoted and settled back in the Championship. He doesn't need the kid glove treatment.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Ghost of Clough]

2 hours ago, teddyb16 said:

Watched both games so far and certainly against Blackpool the passing was too side to side and not incisive enough. 

I do wonder if the age balance is right. He is asking this group to get him out the division but liklihood is over 3/4 of the squad wouldn't feature in the Championship. It woild need a radical overhaul again. I can't see Forsyth, Smith, Hourihane, NML, Barkhuizen, Collins, Waghorn, Thompson, Bird (likely sold on) being in a starting XI a division higher. 

The captaincy thing was an odd one too. I've seen under 12s teams choose their captain by vote but am pretty sure at this level the Manager appoints the man he sees as an extension of him and his values. Can't help but think this might have narked Sonny Bradley who may have been brought in on a Captaincy promise but it hasn't materialised. All what ifs and maybes and we will probably tank Burton by 5 with a Collins hat trick 

1 hour ago, NottsRam77 said:

you do know hes been promoted from this league 3 times, so for all his ramblings , all his waffle, all his crappy jokes quirks and bobble hats there is a manager who knows what hes doing in this league in there.

he wouldnt be the first manager to struggle to turn hms derby county in the right direction and to their destination of choice.

Im totally on the fence with him but for the short to mid term im prepared to suck it up and see where we end up cos weve done the manager marry go round approach and it nearly killed the club

we appear to still be slightly restricted with this 2 year business plan, the details of which none of us know

tbh, im just happy we have a club and a manager who history suggests knows how to get us out of this leaugue.. clowes gave him a 4 year deal so im happy to let him see at least half of that out before passing judgement 

but thats just me

Joint reply, not in any specific order to the content of your posts...

 

Neil Warnock has more promotions than any other manager in English football, but I wouldn't want him as our manager either.

There are still restriction on our club, but Warne has taken the active decision to throw most of the budget on wages for aging players, rather than paying fees for younger players with potential (or even some younger players on frees). Believe it or not, but you can also get young players on loan.

There's also the lack of forward planning in the team selection. If we got promoted, it's unlikely most of the older players would be good enough to be regular starters in the Championship, but they would still be useful squad players.
With a greater focus on player the younger members of our first team squad this season, you could reasonably say the spine of the team would mostly be in place: Wildsmith, Rooney, Cashin, Ward, Bird, Thompson, Sibley. This would then only require us signing 4 or 5 new starters and possibly 1 or 2 extra squad players.
The following summer would probably require us to replace 5 or 6 squad players and/or improve on the first teamers who aren't progressing as much as we'd have liked.
From there on, you could reach a stable 4 or 5 squad changes each year.

However, if the development of our younger players isn't managed correctly, we could be looking at 9 or 10 new first team starters next summer no matter which division we're in. Then the same again the following summer to replace the again players, then the same again the summer after if we don't change our recruitment policy.

If choosing a captain by vote is good enough for Guardiola and Klopp, why would it not be good enough for us?

[Gerry Daly]

2 hours ago, LondonRam2 said:

hi all

What most concerns me about PW is his inability to just shut up when necessary.  Rambling interview answers, accidental revelations of what should be confidential and kept within the squad - he does seem to be verbally incontinent TBH and this needs to change.

In your workplace, if your boss (who after all is responsible for your career) wanted you plaster your cubicle with photos of your family and asked inappropriate questions about them all the time, how long would it be before you reported that boss to HR?  Players are entitled, as professionals in the public eye, to a private life and to confidentiality.  Some of the stuff he says on the radio makes even me squirm, so I wonder how some players must feel?

At what point does concern for his employees well-being morph into just David Brent-isms?  I wonder if we have now passed Peak Warne?  A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.  A footballer who has read a few Psychology books is also a dangerous thing.  This, remember, is a profession in which Roy Hodgson is regarded as a high level intellectual and Eric Cantona is apparently a philosopher by virtue of having a French accent and talking b******s.

I'm not accusing PW of any malice at all, but I do accuse him of naivety in the extreme.  There is a reason why most managers choose their words carefully in interviews.  Also, an apparent lack of verbal and cognitive discipline in public makes one wonder if he isn't actually similarly disorganised in other respects and relying on his staff to make the difficult calls behind the scenes.  Note also the "election" of the team captain, which is actually a complete abdication of his own responsibility to decide who has the necessary leadership qualities to wear the armband, accept the responsibility for that choice, and appoint the right player.  A football team is not a democracy.  

PW is very typical of the modern zeitgeist, in which everyone is all nicey-nicey on the surface, but underneath lurks a refusal to (a) grow up and accept the passing of time, (b) accept adulthood and the burdens and tough decisions that go with it and (c) accept that we can't be all things to all people all the time.

At this club, bobble hats and bull***t will only take you so far.  He has adjusted badly to being at a larger club with much more press and public scrutiny, and the signs are that it's gone to his head.  Time to cut the c**p and focus on delivery IMO.

"Popularity is a crime from the moment that it is SOUGHT".  No employer can ever keep everyone completely happy all the time, it just isn't possible, especially when you have 22 players competing for 11 starting places.  Gaining respect is more important to a manager than cultivating popularity, and respect lasts longer than popularity too.  In seeking popularity, my thesis is that PW has actually lost the respect of many people, hence the flat performances.  And a desire to be universally popular is nothing more than the manifestation of his own inner insecurity, and if he is to address that properly then he needs to take a sabbatical.  Failing that, just rig him up to a machine that delivers an electric shock if any answer to a question goes on longer than 30 seconds.  A few days of that should do it LOL.

If PW lived up to his own hype, we should see (a) a team greater than the sum of the parts, (b) in an appropriate formation, (c) busting a gut for the manager and the club.  So what happened?  Last seasons' tropes are already evident again this season - lack of imagination, fragile under pressure, losing games in the last 15 minutes, wrong formation for the strengths of the available players etc etc.

Warne lovers, by all means disagree or tell me I'm wrong.  However, when he was appointed we were 7th and we finished...7th.  Not a disaster, but not earth-shattering either.  

That’s an amazing post, thank you. Particularly liked what you had to say about Roy Hodgson and Eric Cantona. So true. Also ‘at this club bobble hats and b*****t will only take you so far. 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Gerry Daly

[StantonRam]

Am in agreement with most of the above, and am not suggesting that he be jettisoned, just that he seems slow to learn from his mistakes.  Most L1 managers simply don't get the kind of interest and coverage that he now does, and I stand by my central point that it really matters what you say about players on the national stage (and managing Derby does put you on the national stage whether you like it or not), rather than on the back page of the Rotherham Bugle & Dubious Advertiser (circulation 94).

"One of the lads" sums it up.  When you become a manager you have to learn to distance yourself a bit.  In my years in Senior Management I would never accept invitations to go down the pub, because that's exactly where they can let off steam by complaining about YOU.  PW would accept, buy drinks for everyone, talk too much, and leave his people griping even more because they still hadn't been able to let off steam and complain about him.

Promoted 3 times yes, but you could argue that the 2nd and 3rd promotions only became necessary because, erm, he couldn't keep them in the Championship.  Can he deliver the one (promotions) without the other (relegations back to L1)?  In that respect he is, one could argue, as yet untested.

I'm not qualified to critique his football knowledge, but I am qualified to critique his approach to people, especially his players.  TBH, despite all the bonhomie, I just don't buy it, and I think some players don't buy it either.  Furthermore, I think that to some prospective signings PW's verbal diarrhoea is actually a reason NOT to sign.  I suspect that most players would prefer an honest b******ing where needed rather than all this passive-aggressive "I'm just a normal bloke, me" rubbish.

[StantonRam]

Apropos of Neil Warnock, OK he's an a*** but at least he knows when to stop talking LOL.

[Caerphilly Ram]

23 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

There are still restriction on our club, but Warne has taken the active decision to throw most of the budget on wages for aging players, rather than paying fees for younger players with potential (or even some younger players on frees). Believe it or not, but you can also get young players on loan.

There's also the lack of forward planning in the team selection. If we got promoted, it's unlikely most of the older players would be good enough to be regular starters in the Championship, but they would still be useful squad players.
With a greater focus on player the younger members of our first team squad this season, you could reasonably say the spine of the team would mostly be in place: Wildsmith, Rooney, Cashin, Ward, Bird, Thompson, Sibley. This would then only require us signing 4 or 5 new starters and possibly 1 or 2 extra squad players.
The following summer would probably require us to replace 5 or 6 squad players and/or improve on the first teamers who aren't progressing as much as we'd have liked.
From there on, you could reach a stable 4 or 5 squad changes each year.

However, if the development of our younger players isn't managed correctly, we could be looking at 9 or 10 new first team starters next summer no matter which division we're in. Then the same again the following summer to replace the again players, then the same again the summer after if we don't change our recruitment policy.

This is an interesting point GoC that helps illustrate a number of elements still in play for the club, and partly why I think those who are quick to dismiss (either on here or on social media) the ongoing impact of Morris’ tenure and the administration need to find some broader perspective.

I’ve been quieter on the subject of Warne and the team the last few days as frankly I think those with concerns being articulated with rationale and measured thoughts have some valid points. I still think he needs time, but as I’ve said a couple of times he now really needs to “earn his bread”, echoing some of what @Kokosnuss has said, if Warne and his staff are the key to success they, Clowes and some fans (including myself) believe him to be, he needs to start showing it. He has to show he can motivate and galvanise a group, he has to show he (and his staff if it’s not his strong point) can be tactically aware and adapt, he has to show that he has the ability to take the rising pressure and focus on the solutions to make this club succeed.

Now here’s the bit building on GoC’s points on recruitment and playing staff, Warne has recruited 8 players so far this summer with a slight improvement on age profile but the imbalance present in the squad last season does appear to still be present, it’s just shifted around the pitch. I genuinely thought it was better but the first couple of games have highlighted the need to either further address that imbalance, or change the system. There have been some younger players Warne could have gone after, Regan Poole was one I highlighted earlier in the summer for the rb/rwb spot, there were cb options like Pennington, and a couple of forward options that have been well discussed on the forum. None of us know if we wanted to sign those players, or if they’d have considered joining (players have their own decisions to make regardless of our bias as fans) but I see an argument for going for younger players as well as alleged proven experience. The bit that we can’t escape, regardless of Warne’s approach, is there was always a need for an ongoing squad/club reset, and that part will take time. The likes of Hourihane, McGoldrick, NML, Barkhuizen, Smith were all signed by Rosenior as older players due to our situation, and some of their contracts would always run until next summer (unless extended), so there has always been a need (regardless of manager and yes Warne could have signed younger players this summer to help this) to be patient with the ongoing refresh of the side and the academy as it simply will take time to get to the point we’re not moving older players on each window. 

EDIT - this is meant more as a general point about the ongoing recovery of the club rather than specific to Warne, so possibly not the right thread but GoC’s post sparked my brain into gear. I see people challenging the sentiment of “we still have a club” on here and online, which is their right, I do think it’s important for those fans and all others to appreciate the club is still recovering from near catastrophe (and yes that recovery could have been accelerated to a point by Warne) but it’s not practical to ignore the reality of how f*&^ed the club was in my opinion. 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Caerphilly Ram
Added edit

[RoyMac5]

 

[Tamworthram]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

 

The Twitter reply from JamesP just goes to show how things can be taken out of context and marginal facts can used to make a point.

Last season may have been our joint ever lowest finish but have we ever started a season with such a hastily thrown together squad before? Have we ever completed a season under such external restrictions before? Have we ever found ourselves in this league before purely because of a massive points deduction before? If we fail to get promoted this season then yes, it will be our longest ever period in league 1 but potentially only by one season.
 

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

The Twitter reply from JamesP just goes to show how things can be taken out of context and marginal facts can used to make a point.

Last season may have been our joint ever lowest finish but have we ever started a season with such a hastily thrown together squad before? Have we ever completed a season under such external restrictions before? Have we ever found ourselves in this league before purely because of a massive points deduction before? If we fail to get promoted this season then yes, it will be our longest ever period in league 1 but potentially only by one season.
 

I think that this point is overplayed - we had a good squad and a January window.

I can't remember the team - Swindon? - who the previous season had a similar limited time/budget to put a squad together and made it into the play-offs.

So not out of context at all.

[May Contain Nuts]

10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

 

There are fans are saying that we should be aiming for promotion and they expect no less than us for to be seriously challenging for it. These people are showing 'entitlement'

The chairman, manager, and various players have also been cited as saying that we should be aiming for promotion and they expect no less than us for to be seriously challenging for it. These people are showing 'ambition'.

It's a funny old world.

[Tamworthram]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

I think that this point is overplayed - we had a good squad and a January window.

I can't remember the team - Swindon? - who the previous season had a similar limited time/budget to put a squad together and made it into the play-offs.

So not out of context at all.

Well I think it is out of context but once again we will have to agree to disagree. Whatever happened at Swindon (or whoever it was), no one can deny that we had a terrible preseason (did we even have one?) and had to hastily scrape together a team of youngsters, free transfers and loans. Rosenior has to be given a lot of credit for achieving the recruitment that he did. I wonder if you would be quite so dismissive of the difficult situation we were in if he’d remained manager (and we’d finished 7th)?

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Well I think it is out of context but once again we will have to agree to disagree. Whatever happened at Swindon (or whoever it was), no one can deny that we had a terrible preseason (did we even have one?) and had to hastily scrape together a team of youngsters, free transfers and loans. Rosenior has to be given a lot of credit for achieving the recruitment that he did. I wonder if you would be quite so dismissive of the difficult situation we were in if he’d remained manager (and we’d finished 7th)?

Yes, I would agree with Warne's opinion that failure to get into the play-offs was a failure, even if it was with Rosenior.

Oh and even if we'd gone under the manager (Rooney) and Rosenior had been planning for the new season whatever!

Edited August 11, 2023 by RoyMac5

[Ghost of Clough]

23 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

This is an interesting point GoC that helps illustrate a number of elements still in play for the club, and partly why I think those who are quick to dismiss (either on here or on social media) the ongoing impact of Morris’ tenure and the administration need to find some broader perspective.

I’ve been quieter on the subject of Warne and the team the last few days as frankly I think those with concerns being articulated with rationale and measured thoughts have some valid points. I still think he needs time, but as I’ve said a couple of times he now really needs to “earn his bread”, echoing some of what @Kokosnuss has said, if Warne and his staff are the key to success they, Clowes and some fans (including myself) believe him to be, he needs to start showing it. He has to show he can motivate and galvanise a group, he has to show he (and his staff if it’s not his strong point) can be tactically aware and adapt, he has to show that he has the ability to take the rising pressure and focus on the solutions to make this club succeed.

Now here’s the bit building on GoC’s points on recruitment and playing staff, Warne has recruited 8 players so far this summer with a slight improvement on age profile but the imbalance present in the squad last season does appear to still be present, it’s just shifted around the pitch. I genuinely thought it was better but the first couple of games have highlighted the need to either further address that imbalance, or change the system. There have been some younger players Warne could have gone after, Regan Poole was one I highlighted earlier in the summer for the rb/rwb spot, there were cb options like Pennington, and a couple of forward options that have been well discussed on the forum. None of us know if we wanted to sign those players, or if they’d have considered joining (players have their own decisions to make regardless of our bias as fans) but I see an argument for going for younger players as well as alleged proven experience. The bit that we can’t escape, regardless of Warne’s approach, is there was always a need for an ongoing squad/club reset, and that part will take time. The likes of Hourihane, McGoldrick, NML, Barkhuizen, Smith were all signed by Rosenior as older players due to our situation, and some of their contracts would always run until next summer (unless extended), so there has always been a need (regardless of manager and yes Warne could have signed younger players this summer to help this) to be patient with the ongoing refresh of the side and the academy as it simply will take time to get to the point we’re not moving older players on each window. 

EDIT - this is meant more as a general point about the ongoing recovery of the club rather than specific to Warne, so possibly not the right thread but GoC’s post sparked my brain into gear. I see people challenging the sentiment of “we still have a club” on here and online, which is their right, I do think it’s important for those fans and all others to appreciate the club is still recovering from near catastrophe (and yes that recovery could have been accelerated to a point by Warne) but it’s not practical to ignore the reality of how f*&^ed the club was in my opinion. 

We definitely could have targeted more younger players. Here's a list of players from our main promotion rivals meeting, who (a) didn't cost a transfer fee (ie. free or loan), (b) are under 30, and (c) have been used in the league already this season:

Barnsley - Liam Roberts (28, GK), Kacper Lopata (21, CB) Kyran Lofthouse (22, RB), Andy Dallas (24, CF)

Blackpool - Matthew Pennington (28, CB), Albie Morgan (23, CM)

Bolton - Nathan Baxter (24, GK), Joel Coleman (27, GK), Josh Dacres-Cogley (27, RB), Paris Maghoma (22, CM)

Charlton - Lloyd Jones (27, CB), Panutche Camara (26, CM)

Oxford - James Beadle (19, GK), Jordan Thorniley (26, CB), Fin Stevens (19, RB), Stanley Mills (19, RW), Rúben Rodrigues (27, CF), Mark Harris (24, CF)

Peterborough - Romoney Crichlow (24, CB), Peter Kioso (23, RB)

Portsmouth - Will Norris (29, GK), Conor Shaughnessy (27, CB), Regan Poole (25, CB), Jack Sparkes (22, LB), Ben Stevenson (26, CM), Alex Robertson (20, CM), Gavin Whyte (27, RW), Abu Kamara (20, CF)

Reading - Tyler Bindon (18, CB), Tivonge Rushesha (21, CM), Lewis Wing (28, CM), Harvey Knibbs (24, CF)

Wigan - Liam Morrison (20, CB), Kell Watts (23, CB), Sean Clare (26, RB), Matt Smith (22, CM), Jonny Smith (26, RW)

Wycombe - Kane Vincent-Young (27, RB), Harry Boyes (21, LB), Freddie Potts (20, CM), Kian Breckin (19, CM), Dale Taylor (19, CF)

 

Matt Pennington and Lloyd Jones would were my top 2 CB picks who didn't end up in the Championship, Jack Sparkes my top LWB pick. Harvey Knibbs in an AM role. Aaron Pressley and Tyler Walker (at sides lower in the table) were also my top 2 CF targets, etc..

[Caerphilly Ram]

7 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

We definitely could have targeted more younger players. Here's a list of players from our main promotion rivals meeting, who (a) didn't cost a transfer fee (ie. free or loan), (b) are under 30, and (c) have been used in the league already this season:

Barnsley - Liam Roberts (28, GK), Kacper Lopata (21, CB) Kyran Lofthouse (22, RB), Andy Dallas (24, CF)

Blackpool - Matthew Pennington (28, CB), Albie Morgan (23, CM)

Bolton - Nathan Baxter (24, GK), Joel Coleman (27, GK), Josh Dacres-Cogley (27, RB), Paris Maghoma (22, CM)

Charlton - Lloyd Jones (27, CB), Panutche Camara (26, CM)

Oxford - James Beadle (19, GK), Jordan Thorniley (26, CB), Fin Stevens (19, RB), Stanley Mills (19, RW), Rúben Rodrigues (27, CF), Mark Harris (24, CF)

Peterborough - Romoney Crichlow (24, CB), Peter Kioso (23, RB)

Portsmouth - Will Norris (29, GK), Conor Shaughnessy (27, CB), Regan Poole (25, CB), Jack Sparkes (22, LB), Ben Stevenson (26, CM), Alex Robertson (20, CM), Gavin Whyte (27, RW), Abu Kamara (20, CF)

Reading - Tyler Bindon (18, CB), Tivonge Rushesha (21, CM), Lewis Wing (28, CM), Harvey Knibbs (24, CF)

Wigan - Liam Morrison (20, CB), Kell Watts (23, CB), Sean Clare (26, RB), Matt Smith (22, CM), Jonny Smith (26, RW)

Wycombe - Kane Vincent-Young (27, RB), Harry Boyes (21, LB), Freddie Potts (20, CM), Kian Breckin (19, CM), Dale Taylor (19, CF)

 

Matt Pennington and Lloyd Jones would were my top 2 CB picks who didn't end up in the Championship, Jack Sparkes my top LWB pick. Harvey Knibbs in an AM role. Aaron Pressley and Tyler Walker (at sides lower in the table) were also my top 2 CF targets, etc..

I agree, not dismissing that, just highlighting that there was always an element of it taking time for the club to get back to a solid footing with ongoing player turnover likely for a couple of windows more than some are accepting of. That time could have been improved this summer no doubt, but we’d still have had Hourihane, Smith, NML, Barkhuizen and Collins to renew or replace at the end of this season. 

[Shuff264]

18 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

We definitely could have targeted more younger players. Here's a list of players from our main promotion rivals meeting, who (a) didn't cost a transfer fee (ie. free or loan), (b) are under 30, and (c) have been used in the league already this season:

Barnsley - Liam Roberts (28, GK), Kacper Lopata (21, CB) Kyran Lofthouse (22, RB), Andy Dallas (24, CF)

Blackpool - Matthew Pennington (28, CB), Albie Morgan (23, CM)

Bolton - Nathan Baxter (24, GK), Joel Coleman (27, GK), Josh Dacres-Cogley (27, RB), Paris Maghoma (22, CM)

Charlton - Lloyd Jones (27, CB), Panutche Camara (26, CM)

Oxford - James Beadle (19, GK), Jordan Thorniley (26, CB), Fin Stevens (19, RB), Stanley Mills (19, RW), Rúben Rodrigues (27, CF), Mark Harris (24, CF)

Peterborough - Romoney Crichlow (24, CB), Peter Kioso (23, RB)

Portsmouth - Will Norris (29, GK), Conor Shaughnessy (27, CB), Regan Poole (25, CB), Jack Sparkes (22, LB), Ben Stevenson (26, CM), Alex Robertson (20, CM), Gavin Whyte (27, RW), Abu Kamara (20, CF)

Reading - Tyler Bindon (18, CB), Tivonge Rushesha (21, CM), Lewis Wing (28, CM), Harvey Knibbs (24, CF)

Wigan - Liam Morrison (20, CB), Kell Watts (23, CB), Sean Clare (26, RB), Matt Smith (22, CM), Jonny Smith (26, RW)

Wycombe - Kane Vincent-Young (27, RB), Harry Boyes (21, LB), Freddie Potts (20, CM), Kian Breckin (19, CM), Dale Taylor (19, CF)

 

Matt Pennington and Lloyd Jones would were my top 2 CB picks who didn't end up in the Championship, Jack Sparkes my top LWB pick. Harvey Knibbs in an AM role. Aaron Pressley and Tyler Walker (at sides lower in the table) were also my top 2 CF targets, etc..

Some really good players in there, not sure what would be more concerning - we were never in for them, or they had better offers from others in League 1.