Gary Lineker

[sage]

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

6 hours ago, i-Ram said:

The way I read this is that the Conservative Party should not rely on your vote at the next general election.

That's ok. They still haven't processed his vote from the 2015 general election....?

[G STAR RAM]

16 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

 Strange how the optics differ - what could it possibly be that makes Ukranians acceptable but Eritreans, Libyans, Yemeni, Afghans, Iranians and Sudanese not? Let me think what could possibly cause such a different view to be applied to their plight?

You missed Albanians off your list, any reason why or just an oversight?

[ariotofmyown]

https://www.channel4.com/news/who-is-fuelling-protests-against-uks-asylum-seekers

Pretty depressing stuff

(Btw @Archied this was the same far right group who protested against the drag queens at Tate)

Sam Melia sounds like a nice guy

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/far-right-leader-who-led-8178835

https://hopenothate.org.uk/2022/08/08/sam-melia-exposed-again-leading-patriotic-alternative-figure-admitted-past-in-nazi-terror-group/

Anyway, back to the actual issue...disecting the exact words in Linekar's original tweet.

Edited March 17, 2023 by ariotofmyown

[PistoldPete]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

You missed Albanians off your list, any reason why or just an oversight?

It’s only most of the boat people . But they don’t fit the narrative .

[BaaLocks]

3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

You missed Albanians off your list, any reason why or just an oversight?

Because Albania is not at war and is not considered an unsafe country so doesn't have refugees fleeing war zones or asylum claimants. I don't deny for one second that we don't have Albanians trying to come to the UK - some / many / nearly all* are criminals, undoubtedly, but a considerable element are either victims of modern slavery or entrapped sex workers. In 2022 13% of all Albanians arriving on small boats were referred to the National Referral Mechanism for modern slavery. That's a higher number than for any other country. As someone else said, slightly different narrative.

* - delete as appropriate based on your level of Daily Mail induced paranoia

[Stive Pesley]

I urge everyone to watch this extraordinary exchange. The guy asking the question is not some lefty lawyer - he's a Tory MP and he is clearly trying to get Braverman to admit that it's the complete absence of safe and legal routes for people to come and claim asylum that drives the issue of the boat crossings

 

[BaaLocks]

55 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

It’s only most of the boat people . But they don’t fit the narrative .

It isn't, but anyway I guess you're already pretty set on your views on that one.

For the record, Albania does have the highest level of people detained from small boats of any one nation but 12,000 out of 40,000 total is not 'most', no matter how you slice it.

[Ramarena]

19 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

If they are deemed to be from a safe country they are returned there or, based on the claim they made at their first country of entry (there is a system called Eurodacs that maintains that). Both these are outlined in the Dublin III Regulation, which is often criticized as the last point (return to first country they made claim in) is suggested to put an unfair burden on countries that are the extremity border of the EU (e.g. Greece, Italy). If the country they have fled from is not deemed safe, well, they probably have right to claim asylum.

Interestingly, they omit Ukrainian refugee numbers - all of which have been allowed in via an approved visa scheme. 150,000 to be precise - more than one and a half times as many as crossed in small boats in the last four years. Don't see too many complaints from Braverman and Farage on that one. Don't see Sunak telling them that they can consider themselves to be criminals if they try to come here. Don't see pages of consideration on how we are every going to find space for them in our 'full' country. But the point remains we have allowed twice as many Ukranians into the UK, with a fraction of the paperwork and burden of proof, than we did people fleeing Germany in the 1930s.

Strange how the optics differ - what could it possibly be that makes Ukranians acceptable but Eritreans, Libyans, Yemeni, Afghans, Iranians and Sudanese not? Let me think what could possibly cause such a different view to be applied to their plight?

Whether good or bad, the Dublin III agreement no longer applies to the UK. Same as the Le Touquet agreement.

Strangely and coincidentally the “small boats” problem has dramatically increased since then, but as always people seem to want to ignore the reasons why, as it’s easier to try and find unworkable, expensive populist answers for complex problems.

On the Ukrainians, 7.5 million of them left, on mass when their country was invaded. 

A very quick and easy scheme was required to help them in their hour of need. Ultimately the UK didn’t even take that many compared to other countries. 

It was a huge humanitarian crisis that needed a quick reaction. I’m not sure skin colour came into it on the policy side of things.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Ramarena

[ariotofmyown]

31 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I urge everyone to watch this extraordinary exchange. The guy asking the question is not some lefty lawyer - he's a Tory MP and he is clearly trying to get Braverman to admit that it's the complete absence of safe and legal routes for people to come and claim asylum that drives the issue of the boat crossings

 

What an absolute joke. 

[PistoldPete]

30 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

It isn't, but anyway I guess you're already pretty set on your views on that one.

For the record, Albania does have the highest level of people detained from small boats of any one nation but 12,000 out of 40,000 total is not 'most', no matter how you slice it.

Fine, I won’t challenge that as likewise I think your views are pretty set. So Albanians are by far the biggest group. And they are not people of colour ( which obviously is not relevant to Braverman or Sunak anyway) or under immediate risk of being bombed to oblivion. So why should they have first dibs over anyone else who wants to move here .. from India say? 
 

 

[BaaLocks]

34 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

It was a huge humanitarian crisis that needed a quick reaction. I’m not sure skin colour came into it on the policy side of things.

I am sure that nobody is sitting in a room assessing aid in terms of skin colour. Talking of humanitarian crises, around 850,000 children remina displaced as a result of the Turkey / Syria earthquake. No talk of allowing refugees to the UK there, and a commitment of £25m in aid. Ukraine? Current commitment stands at £4.5bn over two years. No, nobody is doing any of this based on skin colour - well, not explicitly.

[Wolfie]

58 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I urge everyone to watch this extraordinary exchange. The guy asking the question is not some lefty lawyer - he's a Tory MP and he is clearly trying to get Braverman to admit that it's the complete absence of safe and legal routes for people to come and claim asylum that drives the issue of the boat crossings

 

It's baffling (maybe not) but certainly depressing how utterly incompetent people like her get the top government jobs.

Nadine Dorries was another one - as Media secretary or whatever, trying to justify selling Channel 4 because it wasn't a good use of the license fee - and then to have to be informed (also in one of these committee sessions) that Channel 4 isn't funded by it.

Plus Truss and Kwarteng of course....

Edited March 17, 2023 by Wolfie

[BaaLocks]

36 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Fine, I won’t challenge that as likewise I think your views are pretty set. So Albanians are by far the biggest group. And they are not people of colour ( which obviously is not relevant to Braverman or Sunak anyway) or under immediate risk of being bombed to oblivion. So why should they have first dibs over anyone else who wants to move here .. from India say? 

I never once suggested they should, indeed I think I pretty much said the opposite. If you're going to debate, please try to debate against points I actually made rather than ones you think I made - otherwise I'm just going to have to do that whole 'false opposition' bit on you again, as it seems you didn't understand the previous times.

Albanians, Turks, Syrians etc are certainly not people of colour but they certainly are not WASP / PLU either. Sadly, for both the racists and the xenophobes, it isn't as (pun intended) black and white as that. Hence my point.

[PistoldPete]

11 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

I never once suggested they should, indeed I think I pretty much said the opposite. If you're going to debate, please try to debate against points I actually made rather than ones you think I made - otherwise I'm just going to have to do that whole 'false opposition' bit on you again, as it seems you didn't understand the previous times.

Albanians, Turks, Syrians etc are certainly not people of colour but they certainly are not WASP / PLU either. Sadly, for both the racists and the xenophobes, it isn't as (pun intended) black and white as that. Hence my point.

As far as I am aware, the arguments used by Sunak and Braverman are that people coming here without permission are jumping the queue and that isn’t fair on those people that came here by legtitmate means, like for instance the Sunak and Braverman families. 
 

That seems to me a perfectly fair point. Whether their solution is the best one is another matter, I am not qualified to judge on that. Neither is Lineker of course. 
 

But where racists or xenophobia come into it I don’t know. Ironic that people like Lineker are upset about calling illegal immigrants what they are. Not so worried about calling people racists or Nazis. 

[Archied]

2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

https://www.channel4.com/news/who-is-fuelling-protests-against-uks-asylum-seekers

Pretty depressing stuff

(Btw @Archied this was the same far right group who protested against the drag queens at Tate)

Sam Melia sounds like a nice guy

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/far-right-leader-who-led-8178835

https://hopenothate.org.uk/2022/08/08/sam-melia-exposed-again-leading-patriotic-alternative-figure-admitted-past-in-nazi-terror-group/

Anyway, back to the actual issue...disecting the exact words in Linekar's original tweet.

By the way we can say the same regards blm, anti fas , do I dismiss anyone support s some of the very commendable aims expressed by blm?

why do you think it’s ok to dismiss the justified concerns of ordinary decent people if you can point to a more extreme group that tags on ?and why do you feel the need to point this group out to me? Am I far right or do you just condescendingly consider me gullible and easily duped ,,, jeez

[Ramarena]

 

42 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

I am sure that nobody is sitting in a room assessing aid in terms of skin colour. Talking of humanitarian crises, around 850,000 children remina displaced as a result of the Turkey / Syria earthquake. No talk of allowing refugees to the UK there, and a commitment of £25m in aid. Ukraine? Current commitment stands at £4.5bn over two years. No, nobody is doing any of this based on skin colour - well, not explicitly.

The Turkey/Syria earthquake is a fair point, certainly on the financial/expertise side we could and should do a lot more.

In terms of numbers of people seeking to leave the area. It doesn’t seem that high at present, it seems like a lot of people are hoping to stay in their country and rebuild. However if the help they need to do that, doesn’t arrive, then more and more people will look to move and claim asylum elsewhere.

[Ramarena]

2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

https://www.channel4.com/news/who-is-fuelling-protests-against-uks-asylum-seekers

Pretty depressing stuff

(Btw @Archied this was the same far right group who protested against the drag queens at Tate)

Sam Melia sounds like a nice guy

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/far-right-leader-who-led-8178835

https://hopenothate.org.uk/2022/08/08/sam-melia-exposed-again-leading-patriotic-alternative-figure-admitted-past-in-nazi-terror-group/

Anyway, back to the actual issue...disecting the exact words in Linekar's original tweet.

I blame all those panto’s we were made to go to as kids!

[ariotofmyown]

27 minutes ago, Archied said:

By the way we can say the same regards blm, anti fas , do I dismiss anyone support s some of the very commendable aims expressed by blm?

why do you think it’s ok to dismiss the justified concerns of ordinary decent people if you can point to a more extreme group that tags on ?and why do you feel the need to point this group out to me? Am I far right or do you just condescendingly consider me gullible and easily duped ,,, jeez

I'm not entirely sure if you watched the video but some local women wanted to protest against asylum seekers because of made up online rumours. Luckily, a national far right group helped make the protest much bigger. The main guy speaking on behalf of the far right group has been charged with hate crimes, hangs about with a guy who dresses like hitler whilst delivering anti-foreigner speeches and has links to a guy imprisoned for plotting to kill an mp. I'm not sure if the ordinary decent people knew of this when he helpfully set up a facebook page for them.

I mentioned you, as a few weeks ago you took exception to publications like the Daily Mail calling groups who protested against the drag queens as Far Right. The same group who were also involved in amplifying these baseless anti-refugee protests. They are clearly a hate filled group, expoiting local tensions and concerns to push their own vile agendas.

My mate's 80 year old mum (who has taken in Ukrainan refugees of Afghan origin) went to the counter protest. I'll find out if she was contacted by hate filled far left groups.

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, BaaLocks said:

I am sure that nobody is sitting in a room assessing aid in terms of skin colour. Talking of humanitarian crises, around 850,000 children remina displaced as a result of the Turkey / Syria earthquake. No talk of allowing refugees to the UK there, and a commitment of £25m in aid. Ukraine? Current commitment stands at £4.5bn over two years. No, nobody is doing any of this based on skin colour - well, not explicitly.

Turkey is a far wealthier country than Ukraine by most metrics and isn't being destroyed by its neighbour in an ongoing war (in fact, it's significantly contributed to the Syrian and Kurdish refugee crisis across the ME and Europe by its own actions).

If Turkey was being attacked by Russia however, it'd be getting far more than a £4.5Bn commitment from the UK and the rest of NATO, so I'm not sure that's a comparison that makes any sense.

How much aid has Russia and China pledged to Turkey and Syria out of interest?