Unsung NHS Heroes (potentially polical depending on how you read it)

[G STAR RAM]

37 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

From the most recent ONS 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29

 

That is comparing with other countries rather than our own historical figures, unless I am missing something?

[G STAR RAM]

38 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Wouldn't disagree with any of that to be honest, which is kind of the crux of my last half dozen posts on this subject. I think most folk can see that reform is required and I also think most folk would like to see that in progress rather than the NHS simply being used for half-baked manifestos and political manoeuvring.

I'll be voting Labour again at the next general election in the hope that they keep their promises, but my confidence is diminished.

How can you have decided who you are voting for, without knowing (a) what is in their manifesto (b) who would be in charge of running the country?

I find this sort of stance bizarre and one of the major problems with our country.

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

I know mate!  I'm just messing myself to be honest. ?

No need to get that excited about Nicola leaving, good news though it is. 

[Comrade 86]

7 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

No need to get that excited about Nicola leaving, good news though it is. 

Could have phrased it better huh! ?

[Stive Pesley]

12 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

That is comparing with other countries rather than our own historical figures, unless I am missing something?

Yeah sorry, I didn't explain my thinking. Essentially our own historical figures are only one part of the picture. We may be investing more than we did in previous years, but if our population has grown (through people living longer and net migration) then it's a more useful metric to measure how much we spend per capita compared to other developed nations when we consider if the service is being underfunded or not

[Comrade 86]

16 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

How can you have decided who you are voting for, without knowing (a) what is in their manifesto (b) who would be in charge of running the country?

I find this sort of stance bizarre and one of the major problems with our country.

I think I've a fair idea on both counts, but it's not a discussion for this forum. ?

[DarkFruitsRam7]

Please stop the sniping guys or the thread will be locked. It's tiresome when there's already too much in the Elon thread.

[Ewe Ram]

I’ve not read all through this thread, but I work in the NHS. It can’t carry on as it is and that’s the only certainty. 
the waste is criminal and will never be sorted while those who are taking huge salaries are in charge of trying to save the money and waste, they’re part of the problem. Diversity managers, people champions etc earn more than those at the sharp end.

today was well-being Wednesday. We had presented to us many many options to help with our mental health, options for solving issues (bullying is rife in the NHS), we did Zumba and massages, there’s diet advice, dog walking, Tai Chi, music, Thera bands etc etc, columns of choices to help us stay happy and healthy. 
The most overweight people I know are nurses, they have awful eating habits, lots smoke and work ridiculous hours.
I saw a recent tweet from someone complaining GP’s only work 3 days a week. Maybe they do, some work more, but those days are 11 hours. They don’t work weekends… erm Yes, they do. 
The government wanted to tackle ‘bed blockers’ so made a ‘task force’ to get them back home and it was thrown together with a project manager who couldn’t tell us what his actual job was. 
It’s broken beyond repair. 

[Ewe Ram]

And while I’m ranting, the hospitals have huge departments dealing with patient complaints. I get it if you or a loved one have been failed in some way, this needs attention, but complaining that you didn’t like what someone said to you causes hours of work, lots of people to process it and is expensive. Just tell them, or are you looking for £££, because that’s how society is now. 

[GboroRam]

I do get what @Carl Saganis saying and strangely I agree with much of it. I wouldn't say it's a form of worship but we've got ourselves into a difficult place with regards to the NHS. I fully accept it has to change because it is failing. It's failing on a number of fronts. But politically, it feels like failure is being used to justify changes which will bring about more private hands dipping into a public service. One side refuses to hear criticism, the other wants to talk about changes that scare me. 

The NHS isn't as good as we'd like to tell ourselves. It's failing when compared to other countries. But we have to keep telling everyone that it's the best in the world. It isn't. 

It needs more joined up thinking, linking social care and medical care. 

People need to stop getting shitfaced and doing idiotic things that end up with them in A&E. 

We need to keep the expensive resources we train, rather than let them leave to go to the US or Australia for the money, unlike many currently do. 

The bureaucracy thing seems to be less of an issue that was banged on about during the last but one government's attitude. But I'm sure there's savings still to be made. 

But most importantly, it needs funding. And that likely requires more taxation. Health care is costly at the top end. An aging population requires more care. And much of the care could be better focused on social care rather than in hospitals, if we got the thinking right. 

It needs some radical overhaul, but I get nervous when the current government suggests anything that contains the two words "radical" and "NHS". I don't trust them one bit. 

[i-Ram]

18 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

How can you have decided who you are voting for, without knowing (a) what is in their manifesto (b) who would be in charge of running the country?

I find this sort of stance bizarre and one of the major problems with our country.

Because like quite a few on here he would vote for a pig if it wore a red rosette.

Edited February 16, 2023 by i-Ram
This might be a tad political, but I am sure it will go unnoticed

[GboroRam]

9 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Because like quite a few on here he would vote for a pig if it wore a red rosette.

Perhaps people want a change from the failed current regime and can only see one realistic alternative? 

[Comrade 86]

2 hours ago, GboroRam said:

I do get what @Carl Saganis saying and strangely I agree with much of it. I wouldn't say it's a form of worship but we've got ourselves into a difficult place with regards to the NHS. I fully accept it has to change because it is failing. It's failing on a number of fronts. But politically, it feels like failure is being used to justify changes which will bring about more private hands dipping into a public service. One side refuses to hear criticism, the other wants to talk about changes that scare me. 

The NHS isn't as good as we'd like to tell ourselves. It's failing when compared to other countries. But we have to keep telling everyone that it's the best in the world. It isn't. 

It needs more joined up thinking, linking social care and medical care. 

People need to stop getting shitfaced and doing idiotic things that end up with them in A&E. 

We need to keep the expensive resources we train, rather than let them leave to go to the US or Australia for the money, unlike many currently do. 

The bureaucracy thing seems to be less of an issue that was banged on about during the last but one government's attitude. But I'm sure there's savings still to be made. 

But most importantly, it needs funding. And that likely requires more taxation. Health care is costly at the top end. An aging population requires more care. And much of the care could be better focused on social care rather than in hospitals, if we got the thinking right. 

It needs some radical overhaul, but I get nervous when the current government suggests anything that contains the two words "radical" and "NHS". I don't trust them one bit. 

I think this reflects most people's thinking, a point I've myself made, but I see no 'adulation and worship'. During Covid, especially the early variants, health workers were asked to take huge risks to their own wellbeing and that of the partners and children they returned to of an evening and were, in my opinion, rightly lauded for doing so. Fast forward to the present and the issues we are seeing with healthcare delivery, working conditions, waiting times for appointments and so on and I would say with some conviction that the vast majority understand the challenges and deficiencies outlined by @Ewe Ram By and large, people are not as stupid as some suppose.

As for the specifics of this thread, @bimmerman has written a post expressing his gratitude for the treatments and professionalism of those NHS staff who provided care for him when he needed it. I see no reason for anyone, a few posts later, to be introducing the notion that 'we' need to stop 'worshipping' the NHS. Folk can pretend otherwise, but it's clear to me what the context of the post was, hence the reaction it received. Being in full support of a system that provides free healthcare to those who need it whether they are rich, poor or anything in between, has nothing to do with blind adulation. That's a construct and not a terribly elegant one at that. The conversation we ought to be having, as you yourself point out, is how do we mend what is broken and who is best placed to do it, this is clear, but trying to find reasons to snidely criticise or alter the thinking of those who support the NHS and it's workforce serves literally no useful purpose other than to illustrate the divides that allowed it to fall into 'disrepair' in the first place.

 

[i-Ram]

9 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Perhaps people want a change from the failed current regime and can only see one realistic alternative? 

I don't disagree with that statement. In fact I am pretty sure I might vote red again (first time since 2002), but I will wait to see what the manifesto's are. That said Starmer is deserving of my vote purely on the basis that he has Corbyn maked down as a complete loon. Whats not to like.

[Comrade 86]

23 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Because like quite a few on here he would vote for a pig if it wore a red rosette.

And there are those who have merrily sold their children and grandchildren into decades of debt-related servitude to empower 'pigs' with blue rosettes, whilst patting themselves on the back for their self-proclaimed insight in doing so.

Let's see whether this post survives, shall we? Yours, I note, has done.

[i-Ram]

2 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

And there are those who have merrily sold their children and grandchildren into decades of debt-related servitude to empower 'pigs' with blue rosettes, whilst patting themselves on the back for their self-proclaimed insight in doing so.

Let's see whether this post survives, shall we? Yours, I note, has done.

I sold my kids to the gypsies mate. They were offering hard cash up front. Up the Reds.

[Comrade 86]

1 minute ago, i-Ram said:

I sold my kids to the gypsies mate. They were offering hard cash up front. Up the Reds.

[Tamworthram]

3 hours ago, Ewe Ram said:

And while I’m ranting, the hospitals have huge departments dealing with patient complaints. I get it if you or a loved one have been failed in some way, this needs attention, but complaining that you didn’t like what someone said to you causes hours of work, lots of people to process it and is expensive. Just tell them, or are you looking for £££, because that’s how society is now. 

Sadly it’s not just in hospitals. I worked in banking for many years and helped roll out a new complaints handling process several years ago. I know what you’re all thinking  “the banks don’t deserve any sympathy and can’t be compared with the health service” so there’s no need to say it but, whilst I generally agree with this view, the principle is still the same. Some of the trivial complaints we had to process in a particular FCA compliant way was insane and complaint handling became an industry in itself.

[Stive Pesley]

12 hours ago, Ewe Ram said:

will never be sorted while those who are taking huge salaries are in charge of trying to save the money

This is a microcosm of society now though isn't it? The insane amount of money being accumulated by those in power means that their primary driver is to consolidate that power/wealth - whilst trying to falsely project the appearance of actually doing what they are there to do. 

3 hours ago, Ewe Ram said:

the hospitals have huge departments dealing with patient complaints. I get it if you or a loved one have been failed in some way, this needs attention, but complaining that you didn’t like what someone said to you causes hours of work, lots of people to process it and is expensive. Just tell them, or are you looking for £££, because that’s how society is now.

As someone who has used the PALS complaints system extensively in the last 12 months, I know how stretched they are. None of my complaints were frivolous, it had just got to the stage where the only way I could get them to engage with me was to make a complaint. 

As an example, my operation was in June - for what they told me they believed was cancer. By August I had still not heard any results, nothing at all - and as you can imagine I was quite stressed. Raised a complaint with PALS and they took a week to call me back - having to admit that they were currently overwhelmed with complaints. It's a vicious circle when the service is so stretched everywhere. Needless to say - once there was a formal complaint in the system my results miraculously appeared the next day. This kind of thing has been repeated a couple of times with scans and tests that i haven't received appointments for. When you complain - they happen. Almost as if they are so stretched they can only deal with those who shout the loudest. It can't carry on like this

[Archied]

1 hour ago, GboroRam said:

Perhaps people want a change from the failed current regime and can only see one realistic alternative? 

Consider yourself lucky , there’s masses ( probably the majority of the country ) cannot see where and how that change comes with this rotten to the core two party system, people vote against what they want least rather than any option on voting for what they want , I don’t want the tories any more but labour fill me with horror too??‍♂️

Edited February 16, 2023 by Archied