Campaign to get the Administrators to take the claims to court

[IslandExile]

I know there's a similar thread to this, and I agree with many of the points raised on there, but the emphasis on that thread is to crowd fund a legal case. Even if it raised enough money, it's hard to know where to begin raising a case. Besides, it would all take longer than we have.

So I believe it's really up to the Administrators, themselves, to undertake the legal action.

Clearly the EFL are not fit for purpose. They keep restating their position but they never explain how - under their unpublished rules - an unresolved claim is treated the same as a confirmed debt.

I'm no expert but there's another thread which lays out the legal position. Basically, the EFL's case is at odds with the law.

So why, if those claims are preventing anyone making a bid for the club, aren't the Administrators talking legal action to throw those claims out?

Before anyone says the Administrators are acting on behalf of the creditors, without a buyer for the club, those creditors will miss out on their monies being repaid.

Rams Trust, Black & White Together and the Punjabi Rams have meetings with the Administrators. They - and others on here - have access to the campaigning MPs.

So, please could they - at the very least - ask why the Administrators won't take it to court?

And, if they're not satisfied with the answer please demand action.

I am not within the catchment area of the MPs but will join an email campaign to them, the Sports Minister or anyone else that could influence this.

It's gone on long enough. It's now on the Administrators to settle this. The EFL are too inept to resolve it.

Administrators act on behalf of the creditors and ensure a buyer for the club so that those creditors get their debts settled.

[IslandExile]

I meant to say....it has to go through the legal process, rather than any EFL arbitration process.

We've been there, done that. The EFL "independent panel" found in our favour. The EFL didn't like that ruling so they overrode it.

Let's not do that again.

[Ram1988]

There is a similar thread were we are suggesting we could even crowd fund the money needed to take them to court.

[Day]

I don’t believe there is a need for a campaign.

- The administrators will not want to settle for a penny with either Boro or Wycombe.

- Gibson and Couhig will not drop their claims.

- The EFL have clearly stated their position now.

- Not a chance getting the admin, Mel, MSD, Gibson, Couhig and the EFL into the room would persuade any of the above to change.

The only option now, is to take the football creditor status to the high court, or the claim itself through arbitration.

Positive Quantuma will be aware of this now and cannot delay in getting the ball rolling.

[IslandExile]

1 minute ago, Ram1988 said:

There is a similar thread were we are suggesting we could even crowd fund the money needed to take them to court.

I know. I mentioned it in the preamble of my post. I am arguing we don't have the time or knowledge to crowd fund it.

The Administrators should be doing it.

[falconram]

I was only thinking today Is this why players have been sold to cover court costs, Q being very quiet ready to strike as they have the money. 

[IslandExile]

Just now, David said:

I don’t believe there is a need for a campaign.

.....

The only option now, is to take the football creditor status to the high court, or the claim itself through arbitration.

I meant a campaign to push the Administrators to take it to the High Court.

Or, at least, find out why they're not doing so.

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

6 minutes ago, David said:

I don’t believe there is a need for a campaign.

- The administrators will not want to settle for a penny with either Boro or Wycombe.

- Gibson and Couhig will not drop their claims.

- The EFL have clearly stated their position now.

- Not a chance getting the admin, Mel, MSD, Gibson, Couhig and the EFL into the room would persuade any of the above to change.

The only option now, is to take the football creditor status to the high court, or the claim itself through arbitration.

Positive Quantuma will be aware of this now and cannot delay in getting the ball rolling.

Why can’t they for king get on with it. I’m in trouble with the RSPCA for the amount of times I’ve tried to kick the cat..

[Day]

1 minute ago, IslandExile said:

I meant a campaign to push the Administrators to take it to the High Court.

Or, at least, find out why they're not doing so.

Again, don’t feel a campaign is needed. They won’t be sat in an office twiddling thumbs wondering where to go from here when it’s blatantly obvious. Tonight’s EFL statement leaves them with nowhere else to turn.

They may already have the ball rolling with high court papers landing on Gibson’s doorstep in the morning.

I think I saw BAWT or RamsTrust request today their weekly SCG meeting with Quantuma, would imagine we will hear something shortly. I would however rather now every hour of each day was tied up with sorting this out, not holed up in meetings with the EFL, fans and MP’s. Clock is ticking.

[Mick Brolly]

2 minutes ago, David said:

They won’t be sat in an office twiddling thumbs wondering where to go from here when it’s blatantly obvious

Let's hope so because if they are we're ducked.

[Ram-Alf]

9 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

I meant a campaign to push the Administrators to take it to the High Court.

Or, at least, find out why they're not doing so.

I don't want to come across as obstructive...but maybe Q are already putting this in motion ?‍♂️

[IslandExile]

10 minutes ago, David said:

Again, don’t feel a campaign is needed. They won’t be sat in an office twiddling thumbs wondering where to go from here when it’s blatantly obvious. Tonight’s EFL statement leaves them with nowhere else to turn.

They may already have the ball rolling with high court papers landing on Gibson’s doorstep in the morning.

I think I saw BAWT or RamsTrust request today their weekly SCG meeting with Quantuma, would imagine we will hear something shortly. I would however rather now every hour of each day was tied up with sorting this out, not holed up in meetings with the EFL, fans and MP’s. Clock is ticking.

 

4 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

I don't want to come across as obstructive...but maybe Q are already putting this in motion ?‍♂️

I hope to god you're both right.

[vonwright]

12 minutes ago, David said:

Again, don’t feel a campaign is needed. They won’t be sat in an office twiddling thumbs wondering where to go from here when it’s blatantly obvious. Tonight’s EFL statement leaves them with nowhere else to turn.

They may already have the ball rolling with high court papers landing on Gibson’s doorstep in the morning.

I think I saw BAWT or RamsTrust request today their weekly SCG meeting with Quantuma, would imagine we will hear something shortly. I would however rather now every hour of each day was tied up with sorting this out, not holed up in meetings with the EFL, fans and MP’s. Clock is ticking.

Absolutely. The whole tone of that EFL statement was 'see you in court'.

(With just a tiny hint of '...But let's drag the stadium and Morris and MSD into this, since that'll confuse casual onlookers from other clubs, and in any case that's who Gibbo really wants to feel pain')

[ilkleyram]

24 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

I know there's a similar thread to this, and I agree with many of the points raised on there, but the emphasis on that thread is to crowd fund a legal case. Even if it raised enough money, it's hard to know where to begin raising a case. Besides, it would all take longer than we have.

So I believe it's really up to the Administrators, themselves, to undertake the legal action.

Clearly the EFL are not fit for purpose. They keep restating their position but they never explain how - under their unpublished rules - an unresolved claim is treated the same as a confirmed debt.

I'm no expert but there's another thread which lays out the legal position. Basically, the EFL's case is at odds with the law.

So why, if those claims are preventing anyone making a bid for the club, aren't the Administrators talking legal action to throw those claims out?

Before anyone says the Administrators are acting on behalf of the creditors, without a buyer for the club, those creditors will miss out on their monies being repaid.

Rams Trust, Black & White Together and the Punjabi Rams have meetings with the Administrators. They - and others on here - have access to the campaigning MPs.

So, please could they - at the very least - ask why the Administrators won't take it to court?

And, if they're not satisfied with the answer please demand action.

I am not within the catchment area of the MPs but will join an email campaign to them, the Sports Minister or anyone else that could influence this.

It's gone on long enough. It's now on the Administrators to settle this. The EFL are too inept to resolve it.

Administrators act on behalf of the creditors and ensure a buyer for the club so that those creditors get their debts settled.

I don't know that we know that the Administrators won't now take it to court.

We do know that the Administrators have been trying to get the EFL to get off the fence - they would have preferred them to do so by telling M/WW they had no case - and they've spent weeks trying to do just that, including getting the legal views of 3 QCs.

None of that has worked because the EFL are incompetent, in hock to Gibson, are frightened of being sued themselves, don't have the systems in place to deal quickly with inter club disputes of this kind, or all of the above.  Parry said that this has been a problem for over 12 months.  Why have the EFL not found a solution or a way forward in that time, in that case?

Perhaps, just maybe, the Administrators have now forced the EFL to do what they didn't want to do - come out and take a side.  They have effectively nailed their colours to the M/WW mast - negotiate a settlement Derby (ie accept they/we are correct) or take us to court because we believe that m/WW have a case that needs settling.

If the reason we've sold some of the players is to fund a court case then so be it.  At least we won't die not knowing.  If the court case helps to create a lower out of court settlement then so be it; if we lose the court case, then so be it, at least we know where we stand.  Maybe that's been the Administrators' tactics all along.  Perhaps today is good news.

[WestKentRam]

I find it hard to get my head around us getting sued by Boro and Wycombe in this way, but not putting a claim in against QPR for similar that occurred in 2013/14. I know I've read before that Mel Morris said he wouldn't pursue such a case, but is it too late, or would the administrators take it upon themselves to do so on behalf of the club and the creditors?

On the downside, of course a legal case like this would normally take a long time to deal with, and time is one thing we certainly don't have at the moment. On the other hand, can cases like this be taken in tandem so if we lost the case against Boro and WW then we would win the case against QPR for what I'd imagine should be a similar sum to help make the club more saleable?

[PistoldPete]

36 minutes ago, David said:

I don’t believe there is a need for a campaign.

- The administrators will not want to settle for a penny with either Boro or Wycombe.

- Gibson and Couhig will not drop their claims.

- The EFL have clearly stated their position now.

- Not a chance getting the admin, Mel, MSD, Gibson, Couhig and the EFL into the room would persuade any of the above to change.

The only option now, is to take the football creditor status to the high court, or the claim itself through arbitration.

Positive Quantuma will be aware of this now and cannot delay in getting the ball rolling.

Agree with this, David. Hosking said that as Court appointed practitioners Qunatuma  will have first dibs in getting Court dates. So expect this to happen very soon. 

[IslandExile]

1 minute ago, PistoldPete said:

Agree with this, David. Hosking said that as Court appointed practitioners Qunatuma  will have first dibs in getting Court dates. So expect this to happen very soon. 

So what have they been waiting for?

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

7 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

So what have they been waiting for?

Because they’ve only got first dibs on the squash courts. 

[Foreveram]

41 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

I don't want to come across as obstructive...but maybe Q are already putting this in motion ?‍♂️

You love being obstructive ?

[ilkleyram]

20 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

So what have they been waiting for?

For the EFL to jump one way or another.  If the EFL said that M/WW weren't football creditors and that we didn't have to deal with them as such; if the EFL said that they agreed that m/WW didn't have a case, then there would be no point to a court case.

Tonight the EFL have jumped and said that m/WW have cases that need to be answered, that we should negotiate a settlement with them (logically because the EFL think that their cases warrant us doing just that when money is clearly tight) or that we should see them and, by extension, the EFL in court.  

The administrators can back down (but will only do so with bidders' approval I would think) and negotiate, or take them to High Court.  Perhaps they've already had those conversations with the bidders and know their way forward.  Maybe that's why the Binnies made a comment (allegedly) today. 

The High Court is a risky strategy - how risky depends on the legal advice they've had - but it might also force a much lower than £7m out of court settlement which might, in turn, be acceptable to the bidders.

Edited February 3, 2022 by ilkleyram
added word