The Administration Thread

[Rambalin]

35 minutes ago, Maharan said:

One interesting point from the administration update which seems to have been overtaken by the shitstorm of updates;

‘The uncertainty around the possibility of further sanctions from the EFL in the event the chosen bid does not deliver the financial compensation to pass the EFL rules around payment to both football creditors and other creditors.’ 
 

I wonder if that’s a general statement because none of the bids meet the minimum thresholds to comply with EFL rules?

Kieran Maguire explains it as, if money is paid to boro and Wycombe it comes from the price paid by the buyer to buy the club and cover creditors. This reduces the amount other creditors get possibly below the minimum 25% there by incurring a further points penalty. 

This would infuriate those creditors one of which is HMRC so you can see the Admin problem unless the buyer increases how much he is willing to pay. 

[Geoff Parkstone]

14 minutes ago, secretsquirrel said:

I do also believe the stadium is a problem as i think MM wants to upthe price by adding his debt to MSD to the £20million price .

Lads, lads, lets not forget that the stadium is worth £ 80 million because an esteemed valuer said so.  So buy it back for £ 20m from Mel, sell it for $ 80m to an independent third party, bung Boro and Wycombe £ 10 million and use the remaining £ 50m to clear the debt and recapitalise.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Geoff Parkstone

[TooFarInToTurnRed]

3 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

With regards Gibson's statement - like others have said before, what the hell does it have to do with him about the MSD/Mel & HMRC deals. Admins have said they're pretty much in place, Gibson has no right to know the amounts. If he is so keen on knowing those figures, why doesnt he come out with the figure his claim is for or what he would settle for? Looks like he wants to know what others will get so he knows what to ask for. Says it all about the bloke when he claims its a relatively simple task to get us to exit admin. Everyone knows how difficult it was even without his nonsense claim, it is simple now for us to exit admin though if he dropped his claim!

In terms of Mel & the stadium - I thought Mel gets £0 from it? The £20m goes to paying off the MSD loan, so MSD are paid & the new owners owns the stadium? If Mel was happy to accept less, would that not mean we would still owe MSD the difference which would need to be paid for the new owners to own the stadium? Or have I got that all wrong.

As for the EFL, what a load of eaffle. Stating rules, regs, laws yet their own arent upto date. Then stating they need to know the preferred bidder when everyone knows there isnt one until Boro/WW are sorted, have they had their heads in the sand these past weeks or what!

Their statement basically said stop everyone getting angry at us, Mel Morris hasn't lost anything and if you're a tax payer you should be angry at Derby

[Mr Tibbs]

4 minutes ago, OUFCfan said:

and from his point of view likely agree a settlement I guess.

This bit is annoying me the most though. Why should we settle? It's almost blackmail because they have us over a barrel, holding a big key to us moving out of administration. Whilst I'm not quite at the point I'd rather see us liquidated than pay up, it's morally farcical. We shouldn't have to settle on something the club "highly dispute" just because we haven't got a pot to piss in.

I think if you ask everyone bar Boro, Wycombe and a few Forest fans you'll see a massive agreement that those claims are laughable. The whole saga has been handled pathetically by the EFL and it's still rumbling on. We need an independent entity to take the carpet from under their feet because we're getting zero help from a spineless regulator in the EFL. 

Gibson's words say one thing but it's his actions that have his foot on our throat. He's still clearly got a vested interest in whats going on behind the scenes here, those questions are very specific for someone just looking out for his own club. He can try and play down the bad guy role as much as he wants but if he pulled the plug on those claims, along with Coughig, we have a path to move forward with the takeover process, until he does that or the claims are dismissed, we're just counting down our expiry clock. 

Welcome, btw. 

[DCFC1388]

Seems to me that we will get funding for the season so we wont face liquidation.

Then the Boro/WW claims will either be resolved mutually (doubtful) or will go to an arbritation which the interested parties will wait on the outcome for. A deadline for an outcome would need to be by the end of the season.

[Ram-Alf]

28 minutes ago, OUFCfan said:

Neutral fan in peace here!

This whole mess (which I am sorry you are all suffering btw) seems to be getting very mixed up with all the information and misinformation flying around.

I seem to have read the Gibson letter differently than most here thought (possibly less emotionally?) in that to me all it was saying is that this is a complex issue and not just a simple WW/MFC are to blame, lets get together to discuss it - and from his point of view likely agree a settlement I guess.

 

Genuinely don't understand where the deadline has come from either, seems to be entirely arbitrary to me, but again as external I don't know the complexities of it. Seems to be a lot of incompetent people from EFL to administrators involved though

Oxford Untd

-12 points for Administration

-9 points for P&S

-3 points suspended

We have 3, That's 3 bidders who would like to buy DCFC, All looked good until last week as a bidder was going to be announced, Goalposts have been dug up and thrown away, Elf will not sanction the preferred bidder until we make Boro and Wycombe creditors

Now this is where it gets a little complicated if your're not a DCFC fan, Boro were going to sue the EFL for not sorting DCFC out for our allegded "cheating" in 2018/19 when we finished 6th and Boro 7th, Boro lost 5 of their last 6 games and drew the other, We get to the final and lose to Aston Villa.

Boro then send a legal request/document to the EFL saying that we are going to sue the EFL if you do not take the fight to DCFC, The EFL then decide which is better, Them being sued or going after DCFC, They chose DCFC, there is no claim as far as our Admin is concerned that Boro/Wycombe are creditors, No money or services were supplied by them, Wycombe are sueing DCFC as they were relegated last season, If we had had the points deducted last season we would have been relegated, Unfortunately for Covid-19 and the Boro claims they held Wycombes claim up...not DCFCs fault, If Wycombe have a claim it's against the EFL and not DCFC.

Ther EFL could end this NOW by telling both clubs YOU ARE NOT CREDITORS so sod off, The we DCFC can name a bidder and get on with the sale.

There is more to this, But believe me, We've been punished, Boro/wycombe are chancing their arms for some cash, The EFL are perpetuating all this...there's written documentation to show as proof.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Unlucky Alf

[RAMSINCE1969]

Quantauma have said in their statement “Our perceived lack of recent communication has therefore been both tactical and deliberate.”

We have to remember they are trying to get best price for the creditors whilst also trying to get a deal, if the price is to high and there are no bidders they fail

Did they go quiet to get the fans on the case ? possibly so and it worked, statements from all parties, no one wants blood on their hands!

They will know who is the preferred bidder but that preferred bidder will have its own terms on what the deal has to be

As we know the preferred bidder wants the bogus claims dealing with 

The talk of no bid on the table is purely down to the current terms (get rid of the bogus claims)

Who will blink first ?

 

[vonwright]

8 minutes ago, secretsquirrel said:

I do also believe the stadium is a problem as i think MM wants to upthe price by adding his debt to MSD to the £20million price .

It's possible both these are true:

a) If Morris relinquished the stadium and took the hit over the loan personally, a buyer would live with a compromised settlement with Middlesbrough and Wycombe

b) If Middlesbrough and Wycombe dropped their claims, a buyer would live with having to pay Morris £20million for the stadium to pay off his loan

...and that's dangerous, because it becomes a game of chicken and the big losers if no one backs down are us, the fans.

It's also just possible Morris can't easily settle the loan. Who knows how much money he really has?

[Day]

28 minutes ago, SBW said:

Nixon saying that the reason Kirchner pulled out is cos he wanted to pay less for the stadium and Morris kiboshed it.  it's at the point it does really feel like he's still got his dirty mitts all over what is happening right now.  

 

Even if he agreed to sell the stadium for a pound it and take on the MSD debt it wouldn't make much difference to the club being able to move forward, yes it would help get a better deal for creditors, but no bidder is willing to take on a claim for an unknown amount from two clubs. 

The reluctance from these potential owners the EFL claim goes to show that both have a serious case. I can see how they reach that conclusion, however it would be utter madness to take it on unless you're a billionaire that can financially withstand the legal fees and compensation if unsuccessful without losing a wink of sleep.

Their claims are said to be weak, but it's still a huge gamble.

Not suggesting that Mel should not take a hit on the stadium sale to ensure the creditors are paid and a sale goes through, it's in his best interests for the club to be sold, otherwise he would be left with a big stadium and no football club to play in it.

Wouldn't be financially possible for a Phoenix club at the bottom of the football pyramid to play in a 30,000 seater stadium, ticket prices, match day sponsors, would be peanuts.

[Alty_Ram]

3 minutes ago, OUFCfan said:

Thanks for this, 1 thing I don't get though, if the claims are as frivolous as most on here seem to say (I genuinely have no idea what they are btw), then why has it put bidders off? Surely they and their lawyers would look at it, know it's no risk and carry on?

The cases seem quite badly flawed but I am no legal expert. From the perspective of a potential buyer though if you plough in £50-60m into buying a club then you don't want to be told that there is a chance that you might have to find the same amount again even if you were told that it was a relatively low risk - Boro's claim alone is reportedly up to £45m. Frankly I don't really blame buyers balking at that. Taking the club on with say a potential case for £3-5m hanging over might be viewed as an acceptable business risk. Boro and Wycombe's threat whatever you make of it is sufficiently large to make any deal unviable for a potential buyer if the worst did actually happen.
 

[May Contain Nuts]

Still reeling from the absolute ducking cheek of quoting a decision made by the disciplinary panel to support their statement. No ducking awareness of their own hypocrisy. ducking Bamfords.

[Indy]

Just now, Coconut's Beard said:

Still reeling from the absolute ducking cheek of quoting a decision made by the disciplinary panel to support their statement. No ducking awareness of their own hypocrisy. ducking Bamfords.

Especially as that finding didn’t actually answer the question they were quoting it in relation to. 

[duncanjwitham]

16 minutes ago, OUFCfan said:

Thanks for this, 1 thing I don't get though, if the claims are as frivolous as most on here seem to say (I genuinely have no idea what they are btw), then why has it put bidders off? Surely they and their lawyers would look at it, know it's no risk and carry on?

Nobody trusts the EFL Arbitration process. There’s no right of appeal, it’s one shot and done. And we’ve already had a case where we were comprehensively cleared of all relevant charges, only for it to be completely reversed on appeal, for reasons that still aren’t 100% clear. It’s a crapshoot no matter how strong or weak the claims are.

[PistoldPete]

49 minutes ago, Maharan said:

One interesting point from the administration update which seems to have been overtaken by the shitstorm of updates;

‘The uncertainty around the possibility of further sanctions from the EFL in the event the chosen bid does not deliver the financial compensation to pass the EFL rules around payment to both football creditors and other creditors.’ 
 

I wonder if that’s a general statement because none of the bids meet the minimum thresholds to comply with EFL rules?

No I think it means if the buyer has to pay Boro and Wycombe (as football creditors), there may not be enough left to pay the unsecured creditors 25% , which triggers another 15 point deduction.  

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

8 minutes ago, Geoff Parkstone said:

Lads, lads, lets not forget that the stadium is worth £ 80 million because an esteemed valuer said so.  So buy it back for £ 20m from Mel, sell it for $ 80m to an independent third party, bung Boro and Wycombe £ 10 million and use the remaining £ 50m to clear the debt and recapitalise.

Would you be able to do my work accounts please? 

[angieram]

23 minutes ago, vonwright said:

Pure speculation but if Morris kept the stadium in order to sell to the new owners on the condition he gets enough to cover debts to MSD which he personally guaranteed, then I can see Gibson's problem.

That said, that doesn't make it okay to take it out on the club and essentially force DCFC to the point of liquidation simply to make sure Morris ends up having to pay something to someone. 

If this is now a personal war between two mega-rich people, that's very dangerous for us. 

If Morris let's "his" £80 million stadium go to the new owners for the £20 million debt to MSD, that's about 25 pence in the £, which is about the going rate for other creditors. 

Of course, Morris doesn't get a penny of that, MSD do.

[StaffsRam]

43 minutes ago, Mihangel said:

I suspect that right now Steve Gibson is feeling just like I do the morning after I've replied to some work emails on the train home from some post work beers......

Steve Gibson, he shoots, he…..oh.

[Sparkle]

41 minutes ago, SBW said:

It does read very anti-MM.

Makes you wonder how much what Kirchner said was actually accurate.  Does Mel still have his dirty little fingers in the pie? 

He owns it he can sell it for what he likes or he can keep it and he can keep it and build a velodrome with a track six foot longer than the one next door 

[vonwright]

1 minute ago, David said:

Even if he agreed to sell the stadium for a pound it wouldn't make much difference, no bidder is willing to take on a claim for an unknown amount from two clubs. 

The reluctance from these potential owners the EFL claim goes to show that both have a serious case. I can see how they reach that conclusion, however it would be utter madness to take it on unless you're a billionaire that can financially withstand the legal fees and compensation if unsuccessful without losing a wink of sleep.

Their claims are said to be weak, but it's still a huge gamble.

Not suggesting that Mel should not take a hit on the stadium sale to ensure the creditors are paid and a sale goes through, it's in his best interests for the club to be sold, otherwise he would be left with a big stadium and no football club to play in it.

Wouldn't be financially possible for a Phoenix club at the bottom of the football pyramid to play in a 30,000 seater stadium, ticket prices, match day sponsors, would be peanuts.

Dunno, though. £20million is a lot, and I suspect more than enough to pay off Middlesbrough and Wycombe (I'm not saying I'd be happy doing that, but a buyer might.)

The best solution here is that the EFL rules that Middlesbrough and Wycombe aren't football creditors, since they weren't owed money at the point we went into adminstration, our administrators haven't accepted their claims, and football clubs should basically follow the same rules of adminstration as any other company. They won't, it seems, because they would get sued: so instead they create a terrible precedent and hide behind the language of "balancing interests".

But yeah, Mel comes out of this badly if he basically put the club into administration but hived off the only real asset to cover his personal liabilities. I could see why the real creditors would be annoyed by that, let alone Gibson.

[duncanjwitham]

Just now, PistoldPete said:

No I think it means if the buyer has to pay Boro and Wycombe (as football creditors), there may not be enough left to pay the unsecured creditors 25% , which triggers another 15 point deduction.  

I’m worried we’re already past that point, and we’re on the risk of being kicked out anyway for not paying football creditors 100%.