Where Rooney ranks compared to other Rams managers

[Jimbo Ram]

27 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Exactly. 

Davison scored 18 goals in 83/84, when Derby were facing liquidation. Does anyone doubt that sticking a striker capable of scoring 18 goals into Rooney's team wouldn't greatly improve his win ratio? 

Rooney hasn't been able to spend a penny, but some posters have no problem taking the p*** ? 

Who else from that squad would get a regular game today ?

[RadioactiveWaste]

23 minutes ago, europia said:

If we avoid liquidation, supporters should probably prepare for more of the same. 

Sad, but true.

[Yani P]

6 hours ago, Kathcairns said:

?? meant our team then was better than the forest team that did win the cups. For Derby fans that were there in cloughies days it was heartbreaking when he went to forest and won 2 european cups

I still haven't got over it..

[uttoxram75]

12 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said:

This season has been very difficult but he certainly should have done better last season…..

Yeah, he should have kept us up despite the horrendous circumstances he found himself in in his first managerial job.

Oh wait.......

[Carl Sagan]

What the stats tell me is that the manager in League One next season (hoping we survive to reach that point) should be Darren Wassall. And they also tell me Rooney's not especially good. Off the field, after a very shaky start, he's been excellent this season. But it's on the field that counts.

[Day]

The stats don't make good reading for Rooney, but then neither does the situation the club is in and that cannot be ignored.

It's simply not fair to compare against others, especially in recent years that have had far better squads built without transfer embargo's.

Life isn't fair, I get that, however this would be an extremely difficult situation for any manager to work under.

For me, if the season ended today then Rooney is Championship manager of the season by a country mile. 

Some will laugh, but I stand by this, 19th without the deductions, one win away from 14th which is incredible and I think the wider football world is starting to see this now.

[Ghost of Clough]

16 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Sounds exactly like the Dad's Army Rooney has at his disposal.

13 players over the age of 23, three of which are goalkeepers. 

32 games given to teenagers so far this season.

[Tyler Durden]

24 minutes ago, David said:

The stats don't make good reading for Rooney, but then neither does the situation the club is in and that cannot be ignored.

It's simply not fair to compare against others, especially in recent years that have had far better squads built without transfer embargo's.

Life isn't fair, I get that, however this would be an extremely difficult situation for any manager to work under.

For me, if the season ended today then Rooney is Championship manager of the season by a country mile. 

Some will laugh, but I stand by this, 19th without the deductions, one win away from 14th which is incredible and I think the wider football world is starting to see this now.

It is possible to have the opinion that Rooney is performing adequately with the players he has at his disposal without also making him out to be some sort of demigod and not beyond criticism.

No other manager would have stuck by the club in the circumstances? We simply don't know that.

No other person could have performed as well as Rooney with the players he has? The adult world population is circa 5.5 billion so again bold statement.  

[Day]

2 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

It is possible to have the opinion that Rooney is performing adequately with the players he has at his disposal without also making him out to be some sort of demigod and not beyond criticism.

No other manager would have stuck by the club in the circumstances? We simply don't know that.

No other person could have performed as well as Rooney with the players he has? The adult world population is circa 5.5 billion so again bold statement.  

How many words are you putting in my mouth there, steady on, read back, I haven't said anything of the sort.

All I said is it would be an extremely difficult situation for any manager to work under.

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, David said:

How many words are you putting in my mouth there, steady on, read back, I haven't said anything of the sort.

All I said is it would be an extremely difficult situation for any manager to work under.

I know you didn't ? I was just regurgitating the populist opinion I've seen oft quoted on this forum that any other manager would have walked and no other person could do better than Rooney with the players he has at his disposal. 

Point was that it's possible to think that Rooney is doing an OK job at the same time as not viewing him as a superstar manager and not beyond criticism.

[Day]

Just now, Tyler Durden said:

I know you didn't ? I was just regurgitating the populist opinion I've seen oft quoted on this forum that any other manager would have walked and no other person could do better than Rooney with the players he has at his disposal. 

Point was that it's possible to think that Rooney is doing an OK job at the same time as not viewing him as a superstar manager and not beyond criticism.

Fair enough, I don't think they are wild opinions to hold though, which is what they are, opinions. 

If anyone is trying to pass it off as facts then they are wrong, but it's no different to those that say we would have beaten Villa had we played Marriott over Bennett.

Rooney hasn't been flawless, it's his first job in management, you have experienced managers such as Klopp that say they are still learning so it's a given that Rooney will make mistakes but I don't believe he should be crucified for them.

[Leeds Ram]

It's difficult. Last season was terrible by anyone's standards and if the club had been in a position to do so  Rooney would have been shown the door. Not only were the results bad but the performances were as bad as anything I've seen since 'that season' and under Phil Brown. There was absolutely 0 defence for the terrible run in the last 1/3rd of that season as we looked completely rudderless and utterly hopeless in every department. So for me last season was unacceptable and this was before the big trouble kicked off and the 'impossible circumstances' emerged. 

This season Rooney has been loyal and has kept the squad on task. He's made us difficult to beat. The squad isn't great and he's doing about as well as could be expected I think. However, many people also believe that we've got an especially talented crop of youngsters coming through that will have good careers so maybe the squad situation isn't quite as dire as some paint it. As @David said we are a win away from 14th, what he didn't mention is that we'd also be a defeat away from the relegation spots (if Reading had 0 points deduction, if we still count them we'd be 4 points away) so it's hardly like Rooney has got us safely into mid-table. No way should he be appointed manager of the season on a results basis when you have teams like Blackburn, Huddersfield, and QPR all challenging the top 6. 

Brown may be a useful metric to use as a comparison, after-all he also faced dire circumstances, had to loan in terrible players and from memory I'd argue had a worse squad than Rooney. His win rate was less than 4% lower than Rooney's so there's hardly a big statistical division between the two. If we're serious about challenging in league 1 the new owners are going to have to look at Rooney and ask themselves if they think he's up to it. For me, he simply hasn't won enough games to show this. However, I'd caveat this with he does need to be given until the end of the season to show us what he can do, if he can't start winning more games and putting points on the board I'd probably be looking for someone more experienced at that level. 

[Jimbo Ram]

17 minutes ago, David said:

Fair enough, I don't think they are wild opinions to hold though, which is what they are, opinions. 

If anyone is trying to pass it off as facts then they are wrong, but it's no different to those that say we would have beaten Villa had we played Marriott over Bennett.

Rooney hasn't been flawless, it's his first job in management, you have experienced managers such as Klopp that say they are still learning so it's a given that Rooney will make mistakes but I don't believe he should be crucified for them.

The only facts are his results on the pitch, agreed ?

[Jimbo Ram]

5 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

It's difficult. Last season was terrible by anyone's standards and if the club had been in a position to do so  Rooney would have been shown the door. Not only were the results bad but the performances were as bad as anything I've seen since 'that season' and under Phil Brown. There was absolutely 0 defence for the terrible run in the last 1/3rd of that season as we looked completely rudderless and utterly hopeless in every department. So for me last season was unacceptable and this was before the big trouble kicked off and the 'impossible circumstances' emerged. 

This season Rooney has been loyal and has kept the squad on task. He's made us difficult to beat. The squad isn't great and he's doing about as well as could be expected I think. However, many people also believe that we've got an especially talented crop of youngsters coming through that will have good careers so maybe the squad situation isn't quite as dire as some paint it. As @David said we are a win away from 14th, what he didn't mention is that we'd also be a defeat away from the relegation spots (if Reading had 0 points deduction, if we still count them we'd be 4 points away) so it's hardly like Rooney has got us safely into mid-table. No way should he be appointed manager of the season on a results basis when you have teams like Blackburn, Huddersfield, and QPR all challenging the top 6. 

Brown may be a useful metric to use as a comparison, after-all he also faced dire circumstances, had to loan in terrible players and from memory I'd argue had a worse squad than Rooney. His win rate was less than 4% lower than Rooney's so there's hardly a big statistical division between the two. If we're serious about challenging in league 1 the new owners are going to have to look at Rooney and ask themselves if they think he's up to it. For me, he simply hasn't won enough games to show this. However, I'd caveat this with he does need to be given until the end of the season to show us what he can do, if he can't start winning more games and putting points on the board I'd probably be looking for someone more experienced at that level. 

I think the Peter Taylor comparison is closer to what Wazza is currently facing…..

[Day]

2 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

The only facts are his results on the pitch, agreed ?

Plenty more facts going if you want some, such as taking over a club at the bottom of the table, being under transfer embargo, forced to play academy players, club going into administration I mean the list is endless. 

[Ghost of Clough]

7 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

It's difficult. Last season was terrible by anyone's standards and if the club had been in a position to do so  Rooney would have been shown the door. Not only were the results bad but the performances were as bad as anything I've seen since 'that season' and under Phil Brown. There was absolutely 0 defence for the terrible run in the last 1/3rd of that season as we looked completely rudderless and utterly hopeless in every department. So for me last season was unacceptable and this was before the big trouble kicked off and the 'impossible circumstances' emerged. 

This season Rooney has been loyal and has kept the squad on task. He's made us difficult to beat. The squad isn't great and he's doing about as well as could be expected I think. However, many people also believe that we've got an especially talented crop of youngsters coming through that will have good careers so maybe the squad situation isn't quite as dire as some paint it. As @David said we are a win away from 14th, what he didn't mention is that we'd also be a defeat away from the relegation spots (if Reading had 0 points deduction, if we still count them we'd be 4 points away) so it's hardly like Rooney has got us safely into mid-table. No way should he be appointed manager of the season on a results basis when you have teams like Blackburn, Huddersfield, and QPR all challenging the top 6. 

Brown may be a useful metric to use as a comparison, after-all he also faced dire circumstances, had to loan in terrible players and from memory I'd argue had a worse squad than Rooney. His win rate was less than 4% lower than Rooney's so there's hardly a big statistical division between the two. If we're serious about challenging in league 1 the new owners are going to have to look at Rooney and ask themselves if they think he's up to it. For me, he simply hasn't won enough games to show this. However, I'd caveat this with he does need to be given until the end of the season to show us what he can do, if he can't start winning more games and putting points on the board I'd probably be looking for someone more experienced at that level. 

Stuck with a squad he inherited and only able to get castoffs in on loan who no one else wanted.

Davies, Edmundson, Mengi, and Wisdom all injured for the run in, weren't they?

[Jimbo Ram]

12 minutes ago, David said:

Plenty more facts going if you want some, such as taking over a club at the bottom of the table, being under transfer embargo, forced to play academy players, club going into administration I mean the list is endless. 

Yes, well aware of all that ?

[Dimmu]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

13 players over the age of 23, three of which are goalkeepers. 

32 games given to teenagers so far this season.

[Tyler Durden]

18 minutes ago, David said:

Plenty more facts going if you want some, such as taking over a club at the bottom of the table, being under transfer embargo, forced to play academy players, club going into administration I mean the list is endless. 

Peter Taylor took over the club when they were bottom and steered them to a mid table finish that season.

The following season the club avoided going into administration largely due to revenues generated from the cup run which Taylor oversaw. 

But he had Bobby Davison playing for him so that's OK. Even though Rooney had a number of international players at his disposal likewise but they don't count. 

[Day]

3 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Peter Taylor took over the club when they were bottom and steered them to a mid table finish that season.

The following season the club avoided going into administration largely due to revenues generated from the cup run which Taylor oversaw. 

But he had Bobby Davison playing for him so that's OK. Even though Rooney had a number of international players at his disposal likewise but they don't count. 

I wasn't around then, couldn't tell you anything about that. Different game back then though wasn't it, not the money that's going around now?