Where Rooney ranks compared to other Rams managers

[Jimbo Ram]

14 minutes ago, Simmo’s left foot said:

1.83 pts per game would probably be enough to survive the drop this year. Just saying...

Thanks for the clarification, otherwise we might all of thought someone else was saying it ?

[SirBrian]

1 minute ago, admira said:

He only won one with us of course, but I'm sure you know that given your user name!

You are correct, busy rushing about, however if i recall Dave Mackay's title winning team contained mostly Cloughies players.

[Kathcairns]

8 minutes ago, admira said:

He only won one with us of course, but I'm sure you know that given your user name!

Think he would have won everything if he had stopped. Our team at that time was way ahead of forest.

[Tyler Durden]

Interesting that Peter Taylor is above Rooney in the standings, he had some real dross to manage from my recollection, EFL embargo or no embargo.

[SirBrian]

16 minutes ago, Kathcairns said:

Think he would have won everything if he had stopped. Our team at that time was way ahead of forest.

Sadly in those days the media( nothing like today) tended to go to the Chairman of football clubs for an interview and the manager was way down the list, Cloughie became the first superstar manager and changed the rules with the media, and all club chairman detested Cloughie, only the Coventry chairman, Richardson could be his name said that he would give him a job after leaving Derby, none of the others wanted to know thats why Clough and Taylor were going to Brighton in the 3rd division.

Clough was also Notts Forest greatest manager 1 title and back to back European cups, when he took both clubs on they both were towards the bottom of the old 2nd division and he and Taylor rebuilt both clubs, what a manager.

 

[IslandExile]

50 minutes ago, SirBrian said:

You are correct, busy rushing about, however if i recall Dave Mackay's title winning team contained mostly Cloughies players.

Clough said that Mackay never got sufficient credit. Mackay also brought in Rioch, Lee and Thomas.

[ilkleyram]

44 minutes ago, SirBrian said:

You are correct, busy rushing about, however if i recall Dave Mackay's title winning team contained mostly Cloughies players.

Not quite as many as you might think.

If you compare the two Championship winning seasons the new players in 74/75 were: Rod Thomas (22 apps) Henry Newton ( 35), Frannie Lee ( 34), Roger Davies (39), Peter Daniel (37), Bruce Rioch (42), David Nish (38) - so 7 players who contributed massively to the season.

Roy Mac was out injured for most of the season 74/75 replaced by Peter Daniel, Colin Boulton played 42 in Brian's team and also in Dave's; Ron Webster played 38 in Brian's and 24 in Dave's; Toddy 40 and 39; Archie 40 and 41; Kevin 42 and 38; Alan Hinton 38 and 8  - so 5 who played significant parts in both seasons (I would argue that Alan Hinton didn't play a large role in Dave's side)

Stats from Gerald Mortimer's book

[IslandExile]

14 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

Clough said that Mackay never got sufficient credit. Mackay also brought in Rioch, Lee and Thomas.

As an aside, the song for Rioch was one of my favourite player anthems. I think it was @Ghost of Clough - as with all factual information - recently posted the full lyrics. I wish I could find it.

Edit: maybe I was just thinking of this snippet from @loweman2....

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by IslandExile

[Jimbo Ram]

16 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

Not quite as many as you might think.

If you compare the two Championship winning seasons the new players in 74/75 were: Rod Thomas (22 apps) Henry Newton ( 35), Frannie Lee ( 34), Roger Davies (39), Peter Daniel (37), Bruce Rioch (42), David Nish (38) - so 7 players who contributed massively to the season.

Roy Mac was out injured for most of the season 74/75 replaced by Peter Daniel, Colin Boulton played 42 in Brian's team and also in Dave's; Ron Webster played 38 in Brian's and 24 in Dave's; Toddy 40 and 39; Archie 40 and 41; Kevin 42 and 38; Alan Hinton 38 and 8  - so 5 who played significant parts in both seasons (I would argue that Alan Hinton didn't play a large role in Dave's side)

Stats from Gerald Mortimer's book

What about Charlie George?

[SirBrian]

1 hour ago, ilkleyram said:

Not quite as many as you might think.

If you compare the two Championship winning seasons the new players in 74/75 were: Rod Thomas (22 apps) Henry Newton ( 35), Frannie Lee ( 34), Roger Davies (39), Peter Daniel (37), Bruce Rioch (42), David Nish (38) - so 7 players who contributed massively to the season.

Roy Mac was out injured for most of the season 74/75 replaced by Peter Daniel, Colin Boulton played 42 in Brian's team and also in Dave's; Ron Webster played 38 in Brian's and 24 in Dave's; Toddy 40 and 39; Archie 40 and 41; Kevin 42 and 38; Alan Hinton 38 and 8  - so 5 who played significant parts in both seasons (I would argue that Alan Hinton didn't play a large role in Dave's side)

Stats from Gerald Mortimer's book

Roger Davies was signed by Brian Clough in 1971 for £12,000 and in 1971/1972 played in the reserves who won the title. He played for Clough in that FA Cup replay against Spurs away where Derby were 3-1 down with 10 mins to go Roger scored twice for the game to go into extra time where he completed his hat trick and Derby won 5-3, so Roger was one of Cloughs players, and he was established in Cloughs team before he left Derby.

[Yani P]

2 hours ago, Kathcairns said:

Think he would have won everything if he had stopped. Our team at that time was way ahead of forest.

Forest Green Rovers team at that time was probably way ahead of Forest

[Kathcairns]

24 minutes ago, Yani P said:

Forest Green Rovers team at that time was probably way ahead of Forest

?? meant our team then was better than the forest team that did win the cups. For Derby fans that were there in cloughies days it was heartbreaking when he went to forest and won 2 european cups

[ilkleyram]

1 hour ago, Jimbo Ram said:

What about Charlie George?

Signed the season after we were champions. Debut in the Charity Shield game v west ham

[ilkleyram]

40 minutes ago, SirBrian said:

Roger Davies was signed by Brian Clough in 1971 for £12,000 and in 1971/1972 played in the reserves who won the title. He played for Clough in that FA Cup replay against Spurs away where Derby were 3-1 down with 10 mins to go Roger scored twice for the game to go into extra time where he completed his hat trick and Derby won 5-3, so Roger was one of Cloughs players, and he was established in Cloughs team before he left Derby.

And on that basis Kevin Hector was one of Tim Ward's players.  He joined the club in 1966. And so too Peter Daniel who signed in 65.

The only point I was making was that Dave changed Brian's side more that we perhaps remember, those of us that were there. The players he signed were big players on and off the pitch and changed the way we played significantly - not better necessarily but different. And as successful from a championship point of view.

[Comrade 86]

5 hours ago, admira said:

Since BC. Excluding caretakers with single figure games to their names.

On Points per game, Wazza is ranked 20/27. Behind Terry Westley and ahead of Phil Brown

On win percentage, he is 20=/27, same as Terry Westley and ahead of Colin Todd.

PPG

 

 

Win %

 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

5 hours ago, 24Charlie said:

I think we all know this and so do many of the football pundits who are tipping Rooney for Everton. His stats are really bad but clearly it doesn't even come close to telling the true story.

Lies, damn lies and statistics - Disraeli me thinks.

Lies,damn lies,statistics and hard cold facts.

We haven't won very often under Wayne,whatever the reasons.

[SirBrian]

4 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

And on that basis Kevin Hector was one of Tim Ward's players.  He joined the club in 1966. And so too Peter Daniel who signed in 65.

The only point I was making was that Dave changed Brian's side more that we perhaps remember, those of us that were there. The players he signed were big players on and off the pitch and changed the way we played significantly - not better necessarily but different. And as successful from a championship point of view.

After fighting for 3 years to have Cloughie reinstated find it hard to give Dave Mackay any credit, for the players were close to going on strike for how high they regarded Clough, then Mackay took the job moving from Forest,what a signing Hector was, I was 14 when Tim Ward was sacked, and the young wipersnapper came along and we were 5th from bottom of the old 2nd division.

Ilkleyram sounds like you were around in those fantastic Cloughie days, and for all those young rams hope those days come back where they are top of the table again, surely at some stage Derby will stop pressing the self destruct button for it as gone on far to long.

[Kathcairns]

5 minutes ago, SirBrian said:

After fighting for 3 years to have Cloughie reinstated find it hard to give Dave Mackay any credit, for the players were close to going on strike for how high they regarded Clough, then Mackay took the job moving from Forest,what a signing Hector was, I was 14 when Tim Ward was sacked, and the young wipersnapper came along and we were 5th from bottom of the old 2nd division.

Ilkleyram sounds like you were around in those fantastic Cloughie days, and for all those young rams hope those days come back where they are top of the table again, surely at some stage Derby will stop pressing the self destruct button for it as gone on far to long.

Agree, hope the young fans see what we saw, first division champions twice, plus england winning the worl cup. Great times.

[Jimbo Ram]

1 hour ago, ilkleyram said:

Signed the season after we were champions. Debut in the Charity Shield game v west ham

Who signed him?

[PistoldPete]

3 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Interesting that Peter Taylor is above Rooney in the standings, he had some real dross to manage from my recollection, EFL embargo or no embargo.

Peter Taylor had some really good players , just that most of them were well past it or always injured.

Kenny Burns, Archie Gemmill, John Robertson, Steve Powell, Steve Buckley, Paul Futcher. Bobby Davison.   Even Roy McFarland occasionally and Dave Watson.