Petition to not petition to strip Mel of his CBE

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, therams69 said:

Every charity will tell you that every penny and pound counts for alot so for me this is utter contempt. You should all know by now that it was about the Mel Morris show. If he was Lionel and skint, I could understand, fact is he is not. I genuinely believe that shows alot about a person and their character. I can only judge myself in this situation but before exiting any business that I owned by god would I ensure that certain bills such as this was paid, if not to stop any further embarrassment. He should not be allowed to hide behind the 'club' owing it either.

I know quite a bit about charities being a mentor for two and, recently, a trustee with another. All I’m saying is that whilst leaving a charity with a debt of £8k is terrible, I’m not sure it wipes out all the good stuff an individual may have done. Someone mentioned he had donated a scanner to the DRI worth £1m.
 

Do you really care if he’s got three letters after his name? I couldn’t really care two hoots but If such an award encourages individuals to donate a net £992,000 to charity then so be it. I’d rather they got them than some sports person for “services to [insert selected sport here]” when all they may have done is play a sport they happen to be good at and probably made a load of money out of it. 
 

Finally, not my specialist subject but I believe directors have to be careful not to show preference to creditors just ahead of going into administration. Paying off the debt to a charity may not cause a problem but, you never know, other creditors may object.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Tamworthram

[Carnero]

23 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Finally, not my specialist subject but I believe directors have to be careful not to show preference to creditors just ahead of going into administration. Paying off the debt to a charity may not cause a problem but, you never know, other creditors may object.

?

[Rev]

It doesn't really matter, does it?

St John Ambulance will receive their 25p in the pound from administration, and have more than made up the shortfall from the fundraiser.

Everyone's a winner.

[therams69]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

I know quite a bit about charities being a mentor for two and, recently, a trustee with another. All I’m saying is that whilst leaving a charity with a debt of £8k is terrible, I’m not sure it wipes out all the good stuff an individual may have done. Someone mentioned he had donated a scanner to the DRI worth £1m.
 

Do you really care if he’s got three letters after his name? I couldn’t really care two hoots but If such an award encourages individuals to donate a net £992,000 to charity then so be it. I’d rather they got them than some sports person for “services to [insert selected sport here]” when all they may have done is play a sport they happen to be good at and probably made a load of money out of it. 
 

Finally, not my specialist subject but I believe directors have to be careful not to show preference to creditors just ahead of going into administration. Paying off the debt to a charity may not cause a problem but, you never know, other creditors may object.

Fair points..

No in truth I dont care, more important things to think about to be honest with trying to clear this mess up he created but hey. 

Like I said, it shows you what kind of person you are when you do certain things in life. How long was it into the RD interview where he finally apologised? 45 minutes or so? ... Yes he did donate a scanner and fair play. Lets just hope it wasn't for tax reasons like many have said. I will give him the benefit of the doubt on that.

Not my specialist subject either and you could totally be right about that. Of all the creditors though, only charity on there, and if it was me I would have ensured that bill was paid. Either way its a mess.

[angieram]

1 minute ago, therams69 said:

Fair points..

No in truth I dont care, more important things to think about to be honest with trying to clear this mess up he created but hey. 

Like I said, it shows you what kind of person you are when you do certain things in life. How long was it into the RD interview where he finally apologised? 45 minutes or so? ... Yes he did donate a scanner and fair play. Lets just hope it wasn't for tax reasons like many have said. I will give him the benefit of the doubt on that.

Not my specialist subject either and you could totally be right about that. Of all the creditors though, only charity on there, and if it was me I would have ensured that bill was paid. Either way its a mess.

Derby County Community Trust is a charity as well.

[Malagaram]

Well done to every member who donated to our St Johns Appeal to repay what was owed,yes there are good people around

[uttoxram75]

11 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

To be honest I always remember a post on her or another forum that said something along the lines "I have worked with him (or for him) and I think he will be the worse thing to happen to this club, he listens to no one but himself"

I would love to be able to find the post again because out of all the positivity when Mel took over that message stuck out as being ridiculous, turns out he was the only one who had an inclining of what was to come going off previous experience.

I will just edit this to say, at no point did anyone have any ide what was to come. Had Thorne not done his ACL, then break his leg, had Rowett not gone totally defensive for 135 minutes against Fulham, had Derby not had a mare against Hull in the first leg or Lampard picking Bennett up front on his own, or Roos having a mare and that Zamora goal...things could have been so different.

 

Fine lines, its always fine lines. Mel could just as easily been a hero as a villain.

[therams69]

1 hour ago, angieram said:

Derby County Community Trust is a charity as well.

Fair point Angie. And a very good community trust at that.

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, therams69 said:

it shows you what kind of person you are when you do certain things in life.

Easy to say when you've only lived your life with your responsibilities, your morals, your finances, etc

I certainly wouldn't condone any of Mel's actions, but I've never been and never will be in his position or anywhere close, so I don't really know what sort of things would cloud my judgement if I was.

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Coconut's Beard

[MackworthRamIsGod]

52 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Fine lines, its always fine lines. Mel could just as easily been a hero as a villain.

True, unfortunately we live in a world where your only as good as your last deed.

Mels last deed with our club was to wash his hands of it and gamble with the clubs very future, he didn't even have the decency to pay his debts off.

I heard a little rumour tonight that suggests we may not have heard the last of the name MM in the media, I will wait to see how true that is.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

27 minutes ago, Coconut's Beard said:

Easy to say when you've only lived your life with your responsibilities, your morals, your finances, etc

I certainly wouldn't condone any of Mel's actions, but I've never been and never will be in his position or anywhere close, so I don't really know what sort of things would cloud my judgement if I was.

 

I would certainly have paid what was owing and agreed to sign the club over in return for my outgoing liability being paid by the new owners in full. Probably over 5 years, thereby avoiding administration and making the club more attractive to an investor with eyes on the squad rather than creditors and almost certain relegation.  At the minute the club is racking up interest of lovely amounts on that HMRC debt and probably 350 to 500 pounds a day in administrator costs.  

 

[Crewton]

11 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Finally, not my specialist subject but I believe directors have to be careful not to show preference to creditors just ahead of going into administration. Paying off the debt to a charity may not cause a problem but, you never know, other creditors may object.

Exactly what I was going to say. It probably wouldn't be an issue for small sums to unconnected companies, but an insolvency practitioner would advise you not to pay anyone if the company is in danger of going into Administration. 

He would probably get away with making a private donation that covered the debt, but the debt owed by the company wouldn't be affected. 

[Crewton]

20 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

To be honest I always remember a post on her or another forum that said something along the lines "I have worked with him (or for him)........ he listens to no one but himself"

I've heard that said too, though it's not an unusual trait in "successful" people - ego is hard beast to control - but it's never a virtue IMHO. 

 

[Mucker1884]

2 hours ago, Crewton said:

Exactly what I was going to say. It probably wouldn't be an issue for small sums to unconnected companies, but an insolvency practitioner would advise you not to pay anyone if the company is in danger of going into Administration. 

He would probably get away with making a private donation that covered the debt, but the debt owed by the company wouldn't be affected. 

Agree with that.

But as for the bold bit, maybe he already has?  Maybe he has been privately donating more than that amount on a regular basis?  Maybe he even contacted SJA (and any other charities for that matter?), to explain the situation, apologise, and personally donate?

I guess we'll never know, but whilst many on here are more than happy to guesstimate at negatives, and hint at unfounded accusations, I'm more than happy to give him the benefit of any doubts... even at this stage.

I simply don't know him (or his actions/deeds) well enough to go slagging him off in public (even with internet anonymity!)

Edited November 24, 2021 by Mucker1884

[VulcanRam]

The morons who started this petition are probably the same bunch of morons who were singing Mel Morris is a sex offender at Sunday's game and thinking themselves incredibly witty and clever. They were to my right and I expected them to be a group of hormone-ravaged, just-out-of-puberty, bumfluff-faced, don't-know-any-better, think-they're-hard-but-they're-not youngsters.

Sadly, it turns out they carried all of the traits above but appeared to be in their mid-30s. Morons.

[RoyMac5]

13 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Agree with that.

But as for the bold bit, maybe he already has?  Maybe he has been privately donating more than that amount on a regular basis?  Maybe he even contacted SJA (and any other charities for that matter?), to explain the situation, apologise, and personally donate?

I guess we'll never know, but whilst many on here are more than happy to guesstimate at negatives, and hint at unfounded accusations, I'm more than happy to give him the benefit of any doubts... even at this stage.

I simply don't know him (or his actions/deeds) well enough to go slagging him off in public (even with internet anonymity!)

Why would he need to pay the debt off without it being acknowledged? He must have had some preparations in place for putting the Club into administration. He's chosen to leave them being owed money.

[Mucker1884]

7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Why would he need to pay the debt off without it being acknowledged? He must have had some preparations in place for putting the Club into administration. He's chosen to leave them being owed money.

I was referring to a (personal) charitable donation.  I most certainly didn't use the word "need"! 
And it is perfectly clear that he has not paid the debt off... neither have those fans who donated to the Just Giving appeal.  The debt currently remains. 

Remember, this debt... and all the other debts... are owed by Derby County.  Admittedly that could be argued they are down to the (then) owner of Derby County, Mel Morris, but they remain Derby County debts, not personal debts of Mr Melvyn Morris.  I'm no expert, but even I know that's not how business works.

Whilst I'm not saying any of this is factually correct about Mel Morris, some people like (not need!) to give charitable donations.  Some people prefer not to shout it from the rooftops.  Some may even request... or even insist on... "absolute discretion" from the receiver of such donations.

The phrase "They do a lot for charidee... but don't like to talk about it!" springs to mind!
Again, I am not suggesting this is the case in this instance, but I am suggesting it is a possibility.  I'd also be brave enough to suggest that not one contributor to these fine forums know the full facts either.  More than happy to be put right on that score though, naturally.

 

And it's not all about charities.
I personally know of one former company owner who knew his business was sadly about to go bump.  He chose to arrange to pay off some suppliers personally (and quite arguably immorally, and possibly illegally? ?‍♂️) simply because he wanted to maintain a relationship for potential future supplies for a new/phoenix company).  He somehow (Don't ask!) wangled to make payments to them to the equivalent value (of the debts).  On paper, those business debts were never cleared, and yet miraculously(!), a subsequent company of his managed to secure a credit account with more than one previously used (and "unpaid") supplier, and said relationship remains mutually strong and healthy to this day... more than two decades later.

 

I would like to reiterate... I am not defending MM here.  I am merely giving him the benefit of the doubt, because simply put, I haven't got a clue what is happening, what his plans are, and what kind of person he is.  Either way, I seriously doubt he would give two hoots on my opinion, so I wouldn't let it bother you too much either.  

 

 

UTR, 'n all that.  

 

[RoyMac5]

21 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

I was referring to a (personal) charitable donation.  I most certainly didn't use the word "need"! 
And it is perfectly clear that he has not paid the debt off... neither have those fans who donated to the Just Giving appeal.  The debt currently remains. 

Remember, this debt... and all the other debts... are owed by Derby County.  Admittedly that could be argued they are down to the (then) owner of Derby County, Mel Morris, but they remain Derby County debts, not personal debts of Mr Melvyn Morris.  I'm no expert, but even I know that's not how business works.

Whilst I'm not saying any of this is factually correct about Mel Morris, some people like (not need!) to give charitable donations.  Some people prefer not to shout it from the rooftops.  Some may even request... or even insist on... "absolute discretion" from the receiver of such donations.

The phrase "They do a lot for charidee... but don't like to talk about it!" springs to mind!
Again, I am not suggesting this is the case in this instance, but I am suggesting it is a possibility.  I'd also be brave enough to suggest that not one contributor to these fine forums know the full facts either.  More than happy to be put right on that score though, naturally.

 

And it's not all about charities.
I personally know of one former company owner who knew his business was sadly about to go bump.  He chose to arrange to pay off some suppliers personally (and quite arguably immorally, and possibly illegally? ?‍♂️) simply because he wanted to maintain a relationship for potential future supplies for a new/phoenix company).  He somehow (Don't ask!) wangled to make payments to them to the equivalent value (of the debts).  On paper, those business debts were never cleared, and yet miraculously(!), a subsequent company of his managed to secure a credit account with more than one previously used (and "unpaid") supplier, and said relationship remains mutually strong and healthy to this day... more than two decades later.

 

I would like to reiterate... I am not defending MM here.  I am merely giving him the benefit of the doubt, because simply put, I haven't got a clue what is happening, what his plans are, and what kind of person he is.  Either way, I seriously doubt he would give two hoots on my opinion, so I wouldn't let it bother you too much either.  

 

 

UTR, 'n all that.  

 

Thanks for the reminder. I'm sure he could have paid it off. UTR and all that.

[Mucker1884]

12 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Thanks for the reminder. I'm sure he could have paid it off. UTR and all that.

I think you'll find the reminder is in the post!   ?

 

??