The future of Pride Park and Moor Farm?

[Boycie]

32 minutes ago, I know nuffin said:

According to radio Derby the company owning the stadium is not going into administration

As long as they keep up the repayments I’d assume.

[Carl Sagan]

Here is the Companies House information about "charges" on the club:

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00049139/charges/xZUaacc51B9bb9w2aEHeJzhqCLg

MSD hold the only two charges (first two on the list), one for Pride Park and one for Moor Farm. As @Charlotte Rampoints out in the Mel vs Dell thread, the other charge was held by Barclays Bank and paid in full on 14th September. If you follow the link this is the fourth item. 

I think this means what happens to the stadium and training ground is now up to MSD. But, given the DCFC Official Statement went out of its way to mention how helpful MSD had been, we can also surmise MSD have a plan, and perhaps their additional financing was to pay off Barclays just before going into admin. 

It was odd that none of this seemed to be mentioned by Maguire on the Radio Derby phone in, but what he did get right was that if (and when?) administration is entered into, no one can buy the club for 28 days as one of the functions of administration is to protect the club from that happening too quickly. 

[San Fran Van Rams]

12 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Here is the Companies House information about "charges" on the club:

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00049139/charges/xZUaacc51B9bb9w2aEHeJzhqCLg

MSD hold the only two charges (first two on the list), one for Pride Park and one for Moor Farm. As @Charlotte Rampoints out in the Mel vs Dell thread, the other charge was held by Barclays Bank and paid in full on 14th September. If you follow the link this is the fourth item. 

I think this means what happens to the stadium and training ground is now up to MSD. But, given the DCFC Official Statement went out of its way to mention how helpful MSD had been, we can also surmise MSD have a plan, and perhaps their additional financing was to pay off Barclays just before going into admin. 

It was odd that none of this seemed to be mentioned by Maguire on the Radio Derby phone in, but what he did get right was that if (and when?) administration is entered into, no one can buy the club for 28 days as one of the functions of administration is to protect the club from that happening too quickly. 

The timing is so odd in satisfying the Barclays charge. Only reason i can think of is that it makes it easier for MSD to take control of the stadium and Moor Farm. Perhaps it was more palatable for Mel to transfer these assets to MSD this way as opposed to selling it to them out right. Doesn't make a lot of sense in my mind unless MSD expect to buy the club. Even then, I keep coming back to the question as to why MSD didn't just buy the club from Mel as opposed to letting it get into this mess. Assume it's cheaper for them to do it this way and they've just had Mel's pants down.

You mention their additional financing. Did MSD provide additional funding recently?

[atherstoneram]

6 hours ago, San Fran Van Rams said:

The timing is so odd in satisfying the Barclays charge. Only reason i can think of is that it makes it easier for MSD to take control of the stadium and Moor Farm. Perhaps it was more palatable for Mel to transfer these assets to MSD this way as opposed to selling it to them out right. Doesn't make a lot of sense in my mind unless MSD expect to buy the club. Even then, I keep coming back to the question as to why MSD didn't just buy the club from Mel as opposed to letting it get into this mess. Assume it's cheaper for them to do it this way and they've just had Mel's pants down.

You mention their additional financing. Did MSD provide additional funding recently?

I don't have much of an idea about the clubs finances but is it a possibility that MSD were bankrolling MM/the club through loans etc.and said to MM they weren't prepared to carry on any longer or he was no longer unable to keep up with loan repayments so by cutting off a route to finance forced MM to appoint administrators. MM says he has put (was it £200M or something like that) into the club but he didn't say it was his money or someone elses raised through loans?. Just a technicality i know. 

[derbydaz22]

13 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Raynesway was good enough for us for ages! ?

Grass is a bit long down there now Roy ??

[Spanish]

59 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

I don't have much of an idea about the clubs finances but is it a possibility that MSD were bankrolling MM/the club through loans etc.and said to MM they weren't prepared to carry on any longer or he was no longer unable to keep up with loan repayments so by cutting off a route to finance forced MM to appoint administrators. MM says he has put (was it £200M or something like that) into the club but he didn't say it was his money or someone elses raised through loans?. Just a technicality i know. 

also from what we know he has not paid for the purchase of the stadium.  Now it is possible that any subsequent funding of the club by Mel has been offset against that debt rather than by injecting capital.  In other words the spouted £1.5m he has had to spend per month is actually a loan repayment reducing the debt he has to the club.  With no up to date accounts we can't tell

[Shaftesbury st]

13 hours ago, Rammeister said:

Maguire said last night that he believed all elements of the club are likely to be sold as a whole as this would make the club more attractive to purchasers. I guess from a MSD loan perspective, it would make sense for the administrator to do this, as MSD will get all monies owed repaid.

Speculation on my part though.

My understanding is PP is not owned by a DCFC subsidiary and is owned by MM himself so therefore is not in administration but obviously represents another issue in selling us. 
I believe this has been an issue for perspective parties in the past, Moor Farm I have no idea who owns it, or if it’s part of a DCFC subsidiary 

[Rambalin]

Be interesting what MSD do now if anything....... 

"American financiers MSD have the option of taking charge as they already have millions in the club as the biggest creditor, they also have financial interests in Burnley and Southampton as a ‘bank’ and recently severed ties with Sunderland.

The Americans are involved in clubs around Europe but would like a central base and ownership project in England."

[LE_Ram]

36 minutes ago, Shaftesbury st said:

My understanding is PP is not owned by a DCFC subsidiary and is owned by MM himself so therefore is not in administration but obviously represents another issue in selling us. 
I believe this has been an issue for perspective parties in the past, Moor Farm I have no idea who owns it, or if it’s part of a DCFC subsidiary 

From a bit of snooping on Companies House - PPS is owned by Gellaw Newco 202 Ltd, which is 100% owned by Gellaw Newco 204 Ltd, which in turn has its shares held by Mel personally.

What this means exactly in terms of the admin I’m not sure - it appears that the stadium is ultimately owned by Mel personally and not DCFC.

 

[Sussex Ram]

I speak with no experience on financial matters, but in relation to the stadium: surely it has to be owned outside of the club company structure? When selling the ground for a reported £80m, if it remained in the ownership of the club (albeit through another subsidiary in the group) then you are genuinely selling the ground to yourself. I assume this wouldn’t work for P&S purposes- if you move £80m from one subsidiary company to another, that isn’t revenue. Instead, the £80m has to come from outside the club company structure.

Any accountants on here able to confirm?

If so, then I assume two things- the ground isn’t at risk of being sold off, as the company which owns it isn’t in administration (good news). But any potential buyer doesn’t get the ground as part of the package (bad news). Surely this means Mel would have to arrange a sale/lease of the ground to any potential purchaser? Given he allegedly borrowed the money to buy the ground in the first place, maybe it’s more likely Mel will sell?

[CBRammette]

2 minutes ago, LE_Ram said:

From a bit of snooping on Companies House - PPS is owned by Gellaw Newco 202 Ltd, which is 100% owned by Gellaw Newco 204 Ltd, which in turn has its shares held by Mel personally.

What this means exactly in terms of the admin I’m not sure - it appears that the stadium is ultimately owned by Mel personally and not DCFC.

 

Yes the club sold it to him which is what initially really riled the efl but it has the charge over it to prevent Mel just walking away with it leaving the club with huge debt and no main asset in these circumstances. There's much more detail than that but very broadly

[therealhantsram]

1 hour ago, Shaftesbury st said:

Moor Farm I have no idea who owns it, or if it’s part of a DCFC subsidiary 

Moor Farm is leased. From the council I think.

Edited September 19, 2021 by therealhantsram

[Carl Sagan]

12 hours ago, San Fran Van Rams said:

The timing is so odd in satisfying the Barclays charge. Only reason i can think of is that it makes it easier for MSD to take control of the stadium and Moor Farm. Perhaps it was more palatable for Mel to transfer these assets to MSD this way as opposed to selling it to them out right. Doesn't make a lot of sense in my mind unless MSD expect to buy the club. Even then, I keep coming back to the question as to why MSD didn't just buy the club from Mel as opposed to letting it get into this mess. Assume it's cheaper for them to do it this way and they've just had Mel's pants down.

You mention their additional financing. Did MSD provide additional funding recently?

The official Derby statement on Friday night says MSD have put in additional recent funding:

"We are especially grateful to MSD Partners, who have been hugely supportive and have provided additional financial assistance this year, going far beyond the original loan it provided in August 2020."

[RadioactiveWaste]

On the radio Derby interview it seems Mel owns PP and said he will "work with the administrators" on that.

Well, he would have to as his tennat in PP is in administration and he's unlikely to get a different tennant..........

[Ram-Alf]

27 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

On the radio Derby interview it seems Mel owns PP and said he will "work with the administrators" on that.

Well, he would have to as his tennat in PP is in administration and he's unlikely to get a different tennant..........

I gather as we're not in Administration yet MM does still own PP, Once in Admin then he will have "work with the administrators" If MSD have a charge against PP then both MM and MSD will be working with the Administrator

All very confusing for an Old Un ?

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 minute ago, Unlucky Alf said:

I gather as we're not in Administration yet MM does still own PP, Once in Admin then he will have "work with the administrators" If MSD have a charge against PP then both MM and MSD will be working with the Administrator

All very confusing for an Old Un ?

The company that owns PP isn't going into administration, has debts secured against it though. It's financially very messy. And i could be getting stuff wrong on this.

[Ram-Alf]

2 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

The company that owns PP isn't going into administration, has debts secured against it though. It's financially very messy. And i could be getting stuff wrong on this.

To be fare, I didn't listen to the interview, But have read all postings, Amazing how others hear the same thing differently.

[RadioactiveWaste]

2 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

To be fare, I didn't listen to the interview, But have read all postings, Amazing how others hear the same thing differently.

I'm not business or accounting person and there's a fair bit of "trying to say things in a certain way" going on (and not "trying to explain things so everyone can understand the true picture")

I'm guessing as much as you bud.

Edited September 19, 2021 by RadioactiveWaste

[Shaftesbury st]

6 hours ago, LE_Ram said:

From a bit of snooping on Companies House - PPS is owned by Gellaw Newco 202 Ltd, which is 100% owned by Gellaw Newco 204 Ltd, which in turn has its shares held by Mel personally.

What this means exactly in terms of the admin I’m not sure - it appears that the stadium is ultimately owned by Mel personally and not DCFC.

 

That’s how I see it, so ultimately not in administration

[Yani P]

At the end of the interview Mel was certainly speaking of PPS as his rather than going into Admin from my recollection.