Experienced manager

[Tyler Durden]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

You can't just look at the points from one game - its over a season, derr. Even Cocu's points kept us up!

I wasn't if you read my post. I said it should never have come down to the last game of the season and for another club to bail us out with a 88th minute equaliser. 

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I wasn't if you read my post. I said it should never have come down to the last game of the season and for another club to bail us out with a 88th minute equaliser. 

Errr all seasons have a last game. The points are totalled over the whole season.

Look last season was a close call, but unlike the Wendies we stayed up. If we were going to play well all season it would have been so much easier, I wonder why we didn't?

[Tyler Durden]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

Errr all seasons have a last game. The points are totalled over the whole season.

Look last season was a close call, but unlike the Wendies we stayed up. If we were going to play well all season it would have been so much easier, I wonder why we didn't?

Wendies had a 6 point deduction which does rather put things into greater perspective, we didn't yet we only avoided relegation by the skin of our teeth over a side we had an artificial advantage over. 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Tyler Durden said:

Wendies had a 6 point deduction which does rather put things into greater perspective, we didn't yet we only avoided relegation by the skin of our teeth over a side we had an artificial advantage over. 

I see if only they'd known they were getting a 6 point deduction before the last game? Every side that played the Wendies had an artificial (no, it's in the rules!) advantage over them - did the top two teams not go up?

[Tyler Durden]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

I see if only they'd known they were getting a 6 point deduction before the last game? Every side that played the Wendies had an artificial (no, it's in the rules!) advantage over them - did the top two teams not go up?

You know what my point is Roy can't put it any plainer then that. 

Let's give credit where credit is due. 

Some of the comments on here are bordering on delusional regards what an amazing job Rooney did last season to keep us up.

But Hughton is likewise doing an abject job at Forest. No balance. 

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

You know what my point is Roy can't put it any plainer then that. 

Let's give credit where credit is due. 

Some of the comments on here are bordering on delusional regards what an amazing job Rooney did last season to keep us up.

But Hughton is likewise doing an abject job at Forest. No balance. 

And my point is we did stay up - it wasn't an easy job, it wasn't a great squad. But we stayed up - that's what counts. The point you are missing is that last season and even this there were calls for an experienced manager - well lookee here F*rest will have one they would like to offer! I pointed out how ordinary a job Hughton was doing last season, particularly when you saw their squad!

So consider that actually things could have been worse - that's the point too.

[Kingpin]

2 hours ago, Raich Carter said:

I'd want Clough back

?. Some things are best left in the past. 
This is one. 

[Jayram]

15 hours ago, DazzaRam said:

You watch Bolton every game do u? You sure he could handle a situation like this better than Rooney? Not a chance. 

He’s a better manager than Rooney already Dazza - his record speaks for itself so far. He has managed 2 clubs without much money ? or and has got both promoted. 
No I don’t watch Bolton every game but I do take an interest in Evatts progress and it’s fair to say he is impressing a lot of people with his ability. 
Rooney isn’t going anywhere until his contract runs out so it’s a moot point but  if he does go at some point I’d want Evatt here.

[mwram1973]

58 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

And my point is we did stay up - it wasn't an easy job, it wasn't a great squad. But we stayed up - that's what counts. The point you are missing is that last season and even this there were calls for an experienced manager - well lookee here F*rest will have one they would like to offer! I pointed out how ordinary a job Hughton was doing last season, particularly when you saw their squad!

So consider that actually things could have been worse - that's the point too.

Wasting your time Roy. Some on hear only see "point's lost, winless runs etc". They are not interested in the reasons behind it or that when he did have a fully fit squad we were playing well, winning games and not conceding. They are not interested in the fact that we lost key players.

I've gone past caring now, they have a view of Rooney and it won't change.

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

Think snatching defeat from the jaws of victory would be far more apt. 

It was originally always in Rooney's hands to keep us up but after he oversaw that hideous winless streak we ultimately had to rely on Cardiff to bail us out on the last day or we would have gone down. Let's be fair. 

Let's be fair, he kept us up.

[Jimbo Ram]

12 hours ago, plymouthram said:

That Salford team played against our youngsters and were on the night 2nd fiddle and held out for the draw, hoping to win on pens. They went out for the draw, hoping to win. If Derby had lost on the penalties, would you you be classing that as a defeat. Every one knows the rules in the knock out cup games( Example being the Euro's which Italy won on penalties). Its like moaning at the end of the season your team finish in 3rd spot 10 points clear of 4th placed team and not getting promotion because you lose on a penalty shoot out in the final. Look at the history books and the winners ( what ever way they won won) will be down as the team that won.

If we had lost I would be saying the same ?

[Jimbo Ram]

12 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

We were rock bottom of the league when Rooney took over, the lowest league position we have been in during your lifetime, the lowest we have been for over 30 years…and we did NOT go down, doesn’t matter if It is “by a whisker” or “by miles” we did not go down. 
Norwich have only lost 2 games since the spring….so must mean they can’t go down….oh no, because that was last season….and those results do not count this season….

?????

[Jimbo Ram]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

I see if only they'd known they were getting a 6 point deduction before the last game? Every side that played the Wendies had an artificial (no, it's in the rules!) advantage over them - did the top two teams not go up?

Who has a better record as Manager Macca ???

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

You know what my point is Roy can't put it any plainer then that. 

Let's give credit where credit is due. 

Some of the comments on here are bordering on delusional regards what an amazing job Rooney did last season to keep us up.

But Hughton is likewise doing an abject job at Forest. No balance. 

If you're going to quote me, then quote me, but at least do it accurately. I can take it.

I didn't say that Rooney had done "an amazing job" : I said that "keeping us up was a notable achievement". I stand by that. The mitigating factors that contributed to the poor end of season run were real, but you choose to ignore them. You seem to think that Rooney has been "abject" but object to Hughton being branded the same, even though he is a far more experienced manager, with an impressive track record, and benefited from taking over a stronger, better-balanced squad at a club with no restraints on transfer activity. I find your reasoning "flawed" to say the least. 

 

[bcnram]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

You can't just look at the points from one game - its over a season, derr. Even Cocu's points kept us up!

Takes me back to us winning the league first time under Clough. It was only because of the result at Wolves and Arsenal that Derby were champions. Absolutely nothing to do with the other 41 games that Leeds and Liverpool had played. 

[Tyler Durden]

2 hours ago, Crewton said:

If you're going to quote me, then quote me, but at least do it accurately. I can take it.

I didn't say that Rooney had done "an amazing job" : I said that "keeping us up was a notable achievement". I stand by that. The mitigating factors that contributed to the poor end of season run were real, but you choose to ignore them. You seem to think that Rooney has been "abject" but object to Hughton being branded the same, even though he is a far more experienced manager, with an impressive track record, and benefited from taking over a stronger, better-balanced squad at a club with no restraints on transfer activity. I find your reasoning "flawed" to say the least. 

 

I'm not trying to attack you I'm just asking for a sense of proportion and balance that's all.

I also didn't say that Rooney was abject I was making the point that even with a degree of mitigation Rooney keeping us up was nowhere near the "notable achievement" as you think it were.

With the squad of players we had compared to teams at the bottom of the table and with having a 6 point advantage over one of them to boot we should never, ever have been flirting with relegation never mind surviving on the final day only down to one of our relegations rivals shipping a goal in the 88th minute.

I've also read some comments on here that my mind is closed regards Rooney as a person which is unfair - as I said at the start just want some proportion.

[Crewton]

5 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

It was originally always in Rooney's hands to keep us up but after he oversaw that hideous winless streak we ultimately had to rely on Cardiff to bail us out on the last day or we would have gone down. Let's be fair. 

That's what you said, which is patently inaccurate. When Rooney took over, we were bottom, 7 points from safety. At that stage, staying up wasn't in our own hands. Sure, Rooney had 33 games to make up those 7 points, but the stuff he had to deal with (I won't list them again because it's clear you don't regard them as significant issues) threw up problems that would have tested an experienced manager. He also had to deal with the fans, a probable majority of whom thought he was the wrong person for the job (me included), He got us into lower mid-table, surprising EVERYONE, before injuries in particular started to take their toll, yet still managed to rally the squad. What other teams did on the last day is irrelevant in the final analysis. You could just as easily claim that we were only in danger at the end because Boro rolled over for Wycombe. It's meaningless. The table doesn't lie, just as it didn't lie when he took over. The jury is still out (or should be) as to whether Rooney will make a decent manager, but I doubt many managers have had such a baptism of fire in their first jobs.

You claim to want balance, but you offer no balance of your own.

[Tyler Durden]

Just now, Crewton said:

That's what you said, which is patently inaccurate. When Rooney took over, we were bottom, 7 points from safety. At that stage, staying up wasn't in our own hands. Sure, Rooney had 33 games to make up those 7 points, but the stuff he had to deal with (I won't list them again because it's clear you don't regard them as significant issues) threw up problems that would have tested an experienced manager. He also had to deal with the fans, a probable majority of whom thought he was the wrong person for the job (me included), He got us into lower mid-table, surprising EVERYONE, before injuries in particular started to take their toll, yet still managed to rally the squad. What other teams did on the last day is irrelevant in the final analysis. You could just as easily claim that we were only in danger at the end because Boro rolled over for Wycombe. It's meaningless. The table doesn't lie, just as it didn't lie when he took over. The jury is still out (or should be) as to whether Rooney will make a decent manager, but I doubt many managers have had such a baptism of fire in their first jobs.

You claim to want balance, but you offer no balance of your own.

I'm going to leave this here as quite clearly we have polarised views - I did notice a thread get started up over the last hour and shutdown very quickly again by the mods furthering that any criticism against Rooney was totally unacceptable that there are posters on here that bring constant negativity yada yada and I don't want to create a carbon copy of that again.

You have your opinions about Rooney and you haven't convinced me with your arguments for me to buy into your way of thinking and vice versa it seems.

Pointless butting heads to get nowhere. 

 

[Jimbo Ram]

10 minutes ago, Crewton said:

That's what you said, which is patently inaccurate. When Rooney took over, we were bottom, 7 points from safety. At that stage, staying up wasn't in our own hands. Sure, Rooney had 33 games to make up those 7 points, but the stuff he had to deal with (I won't list them again because it's clear you don't regard them as significant issues) threw up problems that would have tested an experienced manager. He also had to deal with the fans, a probable majority of whom thought he was the wrong person for the job (me included), He got us into lower mid-table, surprising EVERYONE, before injuries in particular started to take their toll, yet still managed to rally the squad. What other teams did on the last day is irrelevant in the final analysis. You could just as easily claim that we were only in danger at the end because Boro rolled over for Wycombe. It's meaningless. The table doesn't lie, just as it didn't lie when he took over. The jury is still out (or should be) as to whether Rooney will make a decent manager, but I doubt many managers have had such a baptism of fire in their first jobs.

You claim to want balance, but you offer no balance of your own.

We were 2 points from safety ?

[Crewton]

20 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

We were 2 points from safety ?

My mistake - we were 6 points behind Forest in 21st place with a -8 goal difference compared to them (so effectively 7 points behind, not actually 7 points behind) when he was appointed sole interim manager and gave up playing.