Hull City vs Derby County Matchday Thread

[Jram]

I’d like to once again express my admiration for the Humber Bridge and take a moment to applaud it ?

Every game Sibley doesn’t start from now on will make me more and more anti-Rooney 

Although being anti-Rooney is pointless as I honestly don’t think we can afford to sack him 

[Norman]

We will win. I'm feeling optimistic. 

Followed by the submission of our accounts and an admission from the club we have failed FFP, shortly followed by an EFL statement deducting us 10 points. 

So -7 for the day. Which would be good if we played golf.

[LeedsCityRam]

Obviously team selection alone is only part of the puzzle. We need to bin off the split midfielder tactic & allow attacking midfielders to stay around their final 3rd. They're on the park to create, not dictate tempo & Stretton needs help up there.

Would bring in Ebosele in for Byrne after the latter's poor start to the season. Whilst agree that Festy's future lies up the park, he'll probably find it a bit easier attacking from deep. I'd also bring in Sibley & Watson as part of a fluid 3 behind Stretton...yes, its a very young attacking unit but Jozwiak looks off it & all have played together a lot for u23s

Want us to control the ball so Morrison drops deep alongside Bird replacing Shinnie, who has offered laboured sideways passing & weak defensive cover so far this season

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by LeedsCityRam

[OUTSIDER]

Glad I paid for flight train and hotel in advance of yesterday's game as I would have found it difficult to justify cost just to tick off another new ground 

 

[GenBr]

What I would like to see:

                    Marshal

Festy Stearman Davies Buchanan (Forsyth if Lee is not fit)

                      Morrison

                  Watson Sibley 

        Jozwiak Stretton Lawrence

 

What I think we will actually see. 5 defensive midfielders will be needed this game since it didn't work with 4.

                 Roos

     Byrne Stearman Davies Forsyth

Festy Lawrence Bird Shinnie Morrison 

 

 

 

 

                        Stretton

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by GenBr

[Sparkle]

10 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said:

We want goals but no Sibley ?

Need someone of the bench 

[Ramchope]

9 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Sooner give ebosele a shot at rb and I don't think we'll be seeing Marshall again, but otherwise that looks reasonable ?

Agreed, no chance of Marshall coming back it seems which I think is a shame. Unsure why Rooney bought in Allsop if he wants a ball playing goalkeeper, he’s just spent two years hoofing it at Akinfenwa and Ikpeazu… 

I’d  like to see Ebosele come on against a tired defence, think he would cause havoc but your right he probably does warrant a start over Bryne based on last few games performances.

[Ravabeerbelly]

For those putting Watson in as an attacking midfielder you need to consider Brentford last season on his full debut where he came off after 45 mins and Huddersfield this season where he came off after 50…..

Its not his best position. He is far better suited deeper where he is largely unopposed on the ball and has time to pick his head up and find his passes. That’s far more difficult and requires a different skill set to do further up the pitch where there’s less space and more pressure on the ball.

It’s similar to the Festy situation where we are being fooled by the fact that he’s creative so must play at the top end….when he’s better creating from deeper.

He’s far more likely to be a replacement for Bird.

[Tamworthram]

47 minutes ago, GenBr said:

What I would like to see:

                    Marshal

Festy Stearman Davies Buchanan (Forsyth if Lee is not fit)

                      Morrison

                  Watson Sibley 

        Jozwiak Stretton Lawrence

 

What I think we will actually see. 5 defensive midfielders will be needed this game since it didn't work with 4.

                 Roos

     Byrne Stearman Davies Forsyth

Festy Lawrence Bird Shinnie Morrison 

 

 

 

 

                        Stretton

 

 

 

Not his best game yesterday but I'd stick with Roos. 

[GenBr]

9 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Not his best game yesterday but I'd stick with Roos. 

Personally i prefer marshal, but there isn't much difference between them for me.

[LeedsCityRam]

13 minutes ago, Ravabeerbelly said:

For those putting Watson in as an attacking midfielder you need to consider Brentford last season on his full debut where he came off after 45 mins and Huddersfield this season where he came off after 50…..

Its not his best position. He is far better suited deeper where he is largely unopposed on the ball and has time to pick his head up and find his passes. That’s far more difficult and requires a different skill set to do further up the pitch where there’s less space and more pressure on the ball.

It’s similar to the Festy situation where we are being fooled by the fact that he’s creative so must play at the top end….when he’s better creating from deeper.

He’s far more likely to be a replacement for Bird.

I'd disagree. His biggest asset are those defence splitting passes (which Stretton will thrive on) & he won't be doing those from deep.

Brentford last year he was left wing & not unsurprisingly they had the majority of the ball. Agree he wasnt great against Huddersfield but again, mostly left side & the split midfielder tactic meant we were very deep & hence he had little support or options. He also didnt have the benefit of Sibley stretching the game so creating space. Salford in the week he started deep & was ineffective...much better when further up the park second half. I believe he is a AM but he needs games to hone his craft & get to the pitch of regular Championship opposition.

Festy is a bit different as his main asset is pace which is more useful with space to move into. Louie's skillset by contrast ideally suited to congested midfields.

Edited August 15, 2021 by LeedsCityRam

[Ravabeerbelly]

Just now, LeedsCityRam said:

I'd disagree. His biggest asset are defence splitting passes (which Stretton will thrive on) & he won't be doing those from deep.

I agree with you but deep is exactly where he plays them from and exactly where he played them from for Stretton v Salford.

[Ravabeerbelly]

2 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Louie's skillset by contrast ideally suited to congested midfields.

Congested areas is exactly where Louie doesn’t want to be. Even if that’s where he ends up in a years time, right now he a) would get completely out muscled physically and b) he’d have no time at all to pick his head up and find a pass at all. 

[Barney1991]

Roos

Ebosele stearman davies buchannan

              Watson   Shinnie/morrison

Jozwiak/morrison. sibley Lawrence 

               Stretton 

 

front 3 rotating i’d rather go jozwiak sibley and Lawrence and morrison and Watson holding but if to lightweight shinnie on for the bite and then morrison in the front rotating. I did like the morrison and Watson combo at Salford game. Think morrison dictates our play quite well and don’t think shinnie is good enough on the ball for how Rooney will play. Gotta give Watson a go mow he’s earned it and he’s non effective in a front 3 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Barney1991

[nottingram]

Roos

Byrne - Davies - Stearman - Forsyth

Morrison - Bird - Watson

Sibley - Stretton - Lawrence

[LeedsCityRam]

2 hours ago, Ravabeerbelly said:

I agree with you but deep is exactly where he plays them from and exactly where he played them from for Stretton v Salford.

 

2 hours ago, Ravabeerbelly said:

Congested areas is exactly where Louie doesn’t want to be. Even if that’s where he ends up in a years time, right now he a) would get completely out muscled physically and b) he’d have no time at all to pick his head up and find a pass at all. 

Agree he's got some work to do on physicality but this is where he needs to develop art of keeping possession (strength & technique) or winning a free kick. Again, something that only improves with experience of playing against average Championship cloggers (as well as coaching). If thats your key concern though, I dont see how he gets in the team as you wouldnt ordinarily have slight players at DM due to risk of being overwhelmed in dangerous areas by a high press. He would also offer little defensively. Bird is far from being a unit but more suited physically to that role than Watson with being taller.

Re Salford, recollect he was playing those passes from 30/35 yards out..far higher than a conventional DM. And when he made an impact as a sub last season, he was higher up the pitch.

Edited August 15, 2021 by LeedsCityRam

[Ravabeerbelly]

13 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I dont see how he gets in the team as you wouldnt ordinarily have slight players at DM due to risk of being overwhelmed in dangerous areas by a high press. Bird is far from being a unit but more suited physically to that role than Watson with being taller.

I never said he’d get in my team. I don’t think he would at the moment. But i completely agree with your point, if he did it would be to cover for Bird in that role. Bird is ahead of him for now though.

13 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Re Salford, recollect he was playing those passes from 30/35 yards out..far higher than a conventional DM

He played 60% of his passes in his own half. By the time we got on top on the second half and Salford were tiring and being pressed back to their own box, I agree he was then further up but 35 yards out is pretty much where a full back would be attacking from and in this system with Esobele 20 yards further up and wider that is where a DM is playing from. 

13 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

And when he made an impact as a sub last season, he was higher up the pitch.

That’s not how I remember it. The majority of games he came on in we were losing heavily already and the opposition were sat off protecting a lead and they didn’t need to press the ball. He did well but again it was in areas with little or no pressure on the ball allowing time to get his head up and find his passes. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Ravabeerbelly

[Tamworthram]

I wasn’t at the game yesterday but watched it on TV. Didn’t the commentator say, at one point, we’d left three players up field for one in their corners meaning they had to leave 4 players back to cover? Interesting tactic if true.

[Van der MoodHoover]

2 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I wasn’t at the game yesterday but watched it on TV. Didn’t the commentator say, at one point, we’d left three players up field for one in their corners meaning they had to leave 4 players back to cover? Interesting tactic if true.

I think that really meant they had 4 attackers in and around the box, and 5 Derby players to pass to them.... ?

[Leeds Ram]

3 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Obviously team selection alone is only part of the puzzle. We need to bin off the split midfielder tactic & allow attacking midfielders to stay around their final 3rd. They're on the park to create, not dictate tempo & Stretton needs help up there.

Would bring in Ebosele in for Byrne after the latter's poor start to the season. Whilst agree that Festy's future lies up the park, he'll probably find it a bit easier attacking from deep. I'd also bring in Sibley & Watson as part of a fluid 3 behind Stretton...yes, its a very young attacking unit but Jozwiak looks off it & all have played together a lot for u23s

Want us to control the ball so Morrison drops deep alongside Bird replacing Shinnie, who has offered laboured sideways passing & weak defensive cover so far this season

 

Ebosele's positioning leaves a lot to be desired though which is a major problem for the right back area. Against Peterborough 3 or 4 times in the first half he just drifted way too far inwards and allowed the ball to be played over him into space. Their main attacking threat in the first half was down the right and that was partly due to his poor positioning. Agree Byrne has had a shocking start to the season but think he deserves a bit of latitude given how good he was for us last year. 

Morrison and Bird don't offer enough protection either for what is an old cb pairing and an ageing forsyth for me either. There's not enough positional awareness nor strength and tackling ability. That defence needs protection if we're not going to concede almost 2 a game and there's no way we're scoring 3 or 4. In the second half against Peterborough again we saw the problems dembele caused for us and there were plenty of times that the ball dropped in the middle third and they picked it up causing us defensive problems. For me it has to be a shinnie morrison midfield 2 as Shinnie and Bird doesn't work. 

I think having a fluid front 4 is a good idea but personally I don't really get the love for watson atm. Never really seen him do much at this level to justify him starting. He was pretty much anonymous against Huddersfield and from memory he was last season when he came off the bench too. Even though ebosele wasn't great against Peterborough and I agree with your reasoning about him needing space to run into, I think I'd bench watson and put ebosele in that attacking right position rotating him around with the other 3 am's if possible.