Match Thread - Blackburn Rovers v Derby County - Friday 16th April, 6pm

[HorsforthRam]

Thought bringing on Buchanan for Forsyth gave us nothing going forward (I assume that’s why he was brought on) and drove us backwards if anything. At least Forsyth tries to play it forward and has the odd good cross but Buchanan was constantly looking to pass back and not take any responsibility going forward. I wish Festy could play left back! Looks to be on the front foot. The pressure of where we’re at is too much for Buchanan at his age 

[Patrick Rams]

I'm sitting here thinking of that fantastic night at Elland Road less than 2 years ago.With a Wembley final to come and a 50/50 chance of promotion to the Premier League.And then I look at those 4 playoff teams now...Villa and Leeds and WBA all now playing in the Premier League.Villa and Leeds decent mid table teams and even West Brom having some good results lately.And look at us... staring relegation to the 3rd division in the face.Shocking contrast.Where did it all go wrong? Anyone know?

[GboroRam]

43 minutes ago, Spanish said:

please accept my deepest heart felt apologies for misleading you

Sorry, but I just thought what we need is the opposite of maintaining our form. 

[sage]

31 minutes ago, HorsforthRam said:

Thought bringing on Buchanan for Forsyth gave us nothing going forward (I assume that’s why he was brought on) and drove us backwards if anything. At least Forsyth tries to play it forward and has the odd good cross but Buchanan was constantly looking to pass back and not take any responsibility going forward. I wish Festy could play left back! Looks to be on the front foot. The pressure of where we’re at is too much for Buchanan at his age 

I think he was brought on because the game was getting stretched and Buchanan would be able to get up and down more. He does appear to be low on confidence though.

 

[MuespachRam]

9 minutes ago, Patrick Rams said:

I'm sitting here thinking of that fantastic night at Elland Road less than 2 years ago.With a Wembley final to come and a 50/50 chance of promotion to the Premier League.And then I look at those 4 playoff teams now...Villa and Leeds and WBA all now playing in the Premier League.Villa and Leeds decent mid table teams and even West Brom having some good results lately.And look at us... staring relegation to the 3rd division in the face.Shocking contrast.Where did it all go wrong? Anyone know?

Picking Mason Bennett in the final was the start of It all going wrong. Then letting the barrow boy have a gap year before deciding he was too big for us and scrambling around after that. 

[Tyler Durden]

5 minutes ago, Patrick Rams said:

And look at us... staring relegation to the 3rd division in the face.Shocking contrast.Where did it all go wrong? Anyone know?

Yer the previous excesses of the chairman all came home to roost. We had 3 full internationals in that side if you remember which masked over the beginning of the total lack of quality and imbalance in the ageing squad.

We then decided rightly or wrongly as cba to dredge up that debate again to release one of our top goalscorers over the previous few seasons and not to replace them.

There was then the added distraction of 3 members of the side deciding to get pissed up and stack their motor into a lamppost or whatever inanimate object it was resulting in one of our longest serving and regular players being sacked. Transfer embargo refer to the point about previous excesses by the chairman catching up and so on.

So the slide had already started at Wembley and no one at the club either in a leadership or managerial capacity has been able to address it. 

[Spanish]

10 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Sorry, but I just thought what we need is the opposite of maintaining our form. 

did you think they played well enough to win last night?  4 categories for me in this order currently;

1. play well and win
2. play poorly and not lose
3. play well and not win
4. play poorly and lose

we have been #4 for so long that I really doubted we had it in us to play well.  #2 and #3 can change given our predicament.  We are desperate for points wherever they come from but generally I would prefer us to play well no matter what the result is

[Spanish]

6 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Yer the previous excesses of the chairman all came home to roost. We had 3 full internationals in that side if you remember which masked over the beginning of the total lack of quality and imbalance in the ageing squad.

We then decided rightly or wrongly as cba to dredge up that debate again to release one of our top goalscorers over the previous few seasons and not to replace them.

There was then the added distraction of 3 members of the side deciding to get pissed up and stack their motor into a lamppost or whatever inanimate object it was resulting in one of our longest serving and regular players being sacked. Transfer embargo refer to the point about previous excesses by the chairman catching up and so on.

So the slide had already started at Wembley and no one at the club either in a leadership or managerial capacity has been able to address it. 

I think the USA trip was a massive mistake.  We started that season unfit and never recovered given the covid problems at the beginning of the next one

[Phoenix]

47 minutes ago, Spanish said:

I think the USA trip was a massive mistake.  We started that season unfit and never recovered given the covid problems at the beginning of the next one

Added to which, Cocu (nice bloke, may well be successful elsewhere) was parachuted in, and never really got to grips with the cut and thrust of the Championship. Trying to coach the players in to an alien style probably left them confused, further confused by a change of manager.

Then you've got a fair (unfair) measure of rank bad luck, injuries to key players at critical times, and some, no, a lot of piss poor refereeing. How many possible penalties have we been denied this season?

And there's the thundercloud of uncertainty permanently hanging over the club, law suits (Fat Sam), EFL ad nauseam, Gibson sticking his oar in, and a steady stream of bad press, and I've lost count of the number of potential/imminent take over deals.

If this was my place of work, I'd be constantly worried about the final outcome to the extent it may well affect my working efficiency.

The stars are definitely unaligned.

[Jimbo Ram]

2 hours ago, JarodyDCFC said:

Regarding the penalty decision, here’s what I think happened. There was a lot of talk about a couple of last minute penalties earlier this season involving Swansea, where Neil Warnock moaned a whole bunch. Despite the ref’s perfect position, I suspect that he didn’t want to give the penalty because if he gave it and got it wrong he would come under more scrutiny than if he didn’t give it and got it wrong (which is what happened). Of course he’s still come under scrutiny but the headline is not that we were robbed of draw, whereas if the penalty was given and say Ebosele actually dived to win it, the headline would be that the ref has robbed Blackburn with a terrible penalty decision in the last minute. 
 

I’m not defending the ref here. He’s still an absolute disgrace but this is the mind of the referee nowadays. They’re always thinking about how making a decision will reflect on their reputation/cause controversy rather than just making the right decision. 

Think it might just be he wasn’t 100% sure....

[rynny]

15 hours ago, Anag Ram said:

TBF if a defence playing in the second tier of English football doesn’t know how to mark from a corner, Rooney is onto a loser. It’s pretty basic stuff.

 

15 hours ago, Ruud Aralliss said:

Did Wayne tell Tom who to mark at the corner? No.  It’s up to the defence to organise the set up. Ffs.

Also what silly changes were made?

I would hope we work on defending set pieces, the job of each person, who marks who etc. 

The fact that we had Lawrence marking Gallagher again on the free kick just after the goal says to me that the management team had them set up for Lawrence to mark him, which is absolutely ridiculous. 

[QuitYourJibbaJivin]

6 minutes ago, rynny said:

 

I would hope we work on defending set pieces, the job of each person, who marks who etc. 

The fact that we had Lawrence marking Gallagher again on the free kick just after the goal says to me that the management team had them set up for Lawrence to mark him, which is absolutely ridiculous. 

We’ve done the same routine from set pieces for a while now. It’s a hybrid of zonal/man marking which seems to conjure the worst of both tactics. Our “best” headers are given a zone to mark and then players are selected to mark to basically try and be a nuisance. All well and good until the biggest bloke on the pitch stands outside one of the zones and is left with a complete mismatch and effectively a free header. 

[Spanish]

8 minutes ago, rynny said:

 

I would hope we work on defending set pieces, the job of each person, who marks who etc. 

The fact that we had Lawrence marking Gallagher again on the free kick just after the goal says to me that the management team had them set up for Lawrence to mark him, which is absolutely ridiculous. 

hindsight is great.  They were a big side and there was likely to be a mismatch somewhere.  That's the thing with goals easy to pin pint what could have been done differently don't you think?  That was straight off the training ground.  Gallagher arrives latish to the near post, runs into his marker takes a step back and the corner, if good, lands on his head.  If it doesn't work the corner gets swung into the centre.  Freekick for me it was premeditated, looks soft but it depended on Gallagher fouling his marker

[SKRam]

4 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Er... Do you mean what you write? 

 

 

4 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Er... Do you mean what you write? 

 

The only team below is? Who do we play next? 
To quote the late great Bill Paxton (Aliens)‘That’s great that’s just frikking great man’ 

(cleaned up) 

[SKRam]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Yep there's a reason why 'strikers' cost lots, even ordinary ones. I think we were really unlucky with Gregory getting injured he made a difference up front.

Is there an ‘injury league’ be interesting see if we are at least top of that 

[rynny]

17 minutes ago, Spanish said:

hindsight is great.  They were a big side and there was likely to be a mismatch somewhere.  That's the thing with goals easy to pin pint what could have been done differently don't you think?  That was straight off the training ground.  Gallagher arrives latish to the near post, runs into his marker takes a step back and the corner, if good, lands on his head.  If it doesn't work the corner gets swung into the centre.  Freekick for me it was premeditated, looks soft but it depended on Gallagher fouling his marker

It isn't hindsight. Not been impressed with our defensive set up from set pieces for a while, in fact,  since we stopped looking a threat from our own set pieces. 

[Jimbo Ram]

2 hours ago, HorsforthRam said:

Thought bringing on Buchanan for Forsyth gave us nothing going forward (I assume that’s why he was brought on) and drove us backwards if anything. At least Forsyth tries to play it forward and has the odd good cross but Buchanan was constantly looking to pass back and not take any responsibility going forward. I wish Festy could play left back! Looks to be on the front foot. The pressure of where we’re at is too much for Buchanan at his age 

Isn’t Buchanan older than Festy ?

[Spanish]

10 minutes ago, rynny said:

It isn't hindsight. Not been impressed with our defensive set up from set pieces for a while, in fact,  since we stopped looking a threat from our own set pieces. 

I remember Keezy (no the best example I will grant you) playing for Eire and Nial Quinn was commentating.  Somehow or other K was left in the centre of defence with 2 unmarked attackers, he chose to mark one and of course the opponent saw him do this and passed to the free one.  Quinn went ballistic, twit .  It has to be hindsight because you don't know how else it would have played out.

I wouldn't argue with the failings in our defence tho

[DavesaRam]

Here is my take on the proceedings:

It was a really good match to watch, and for once Rooney sent us out on the front foot, and after a slow start, we looked really good. I assume the line-up was dictated by who was fit enough, but it completely threw Blackburn who didn't know how to deal with us. We were a joy to watch going forwards.

Much of the comment has been about the ref's major decision costing us a point, but although not as terrible as we normally get, he made a number of critical errors, right from the beginning. Joswiack was given a hell of a whack from behind which threw him off the pitch - there was no attempt to [play the ball, and it included two hands on his back, and it was right in front of the ref who gave nothing. He also did nothing about the defender deliberately stamping on Joswiack's foot on the edge of the area, when it should have been a red card - and again there was no intention of playing the ball. Effectively he said to Blackburn do whatever you want to Joswiack, it's fine by me. He disallowed CKR's goal, presumably for a push on the defender, but completely ignored the push by Gallagher on Tom Lawrence when he scored his goal. And no, we wouldn't have been given the penalty if we were already ahead at that point - we are Derby County. We don't get penalties.

But in the end the deciding factors were of our own making, with two really poor pieces of defending. 5' 10" Lawrence against the biggest player on the pitch - was that before or after Byrne had broken  his neck? I can't remember. But it shouldn't have been Tom marking him. And it was another of those moments where you just knew it was going to be a goal. I got the "know" as the ball was being put down vaguely near the corner circle. And the substitutions sent out the message "It's all right lads. I know you've worked really hard and been really good, but now you can stop all the passing and moving, and simply lump the ball up to the big man. IT killed the game, because Blackburn know how to deal with high balls to a big man. So sadly we were undone by Wayne trying to be a tactical genius. Ho hum!

The only change we needed was Ebosele for Lawrence, who was done in by the end. And the peno decision - it couldn't have been because the ref wasn't sure - the defender went into the tackle with just his right leg out, but then swung his left leg across to make sure he got the man. 

There are plenty of performance to be happy about. Despite the flack, last night was Bird's best performance for a while. Yes he did pass sideways, and backwards on occasion, but plenty of times he surged forwards with the ball. No we didn't get a "George Thorne grass-skimming defence splitter", but he did plenty of positive things, and seems to have turned a corner. Joswiack did really well - like Johnny Russell he is great at holding on to the ball until other players arrive, although similarly his attacking end product is not so good. Like Roberts, he suffers with "Not-shooting-itus", because they are both one-footed, and are therefore constantly trying to get the ball onto there good leg, which is easy to defend against. Why these one-leggers don't seem to do anything to improve their weaker foot, I don't know.

We are a whole load of points short because of refereeing decisions, but most of our trouble has been from the insistence of not pressing and harrying the opposition, not going onto the front foot, and worrying to much about what the opposition might do. Last night showed us what happens when we simply rock up and do our own thing - it caught Blackburn out cold.

So where from here? Well, regardless of where we end up, lets go to the end of the season with the attitude we started last night's match with. I didn't lie the result, but it was enjoyable watching us at least having a go. Long may it continue - well, for the last few games anyway.

coyr

[DCFC1388]

32 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

Here is my take on the proceedings:

It was a really good match to watch, and for once Rooney sent us out on the front foot, and after a slow start, we looked really good. I assume the line-up was dictated by who was fit enough, but it completely threw Blackburn who didn't know how to deal with us. We were a joy to watch going forwards.

Much of the comment has been about the ref's major decision costing us a point, but although not as terrible as we normally get, he made a number of critical errors, right from the beginning. Joswiack was given a hell of a whack from behind which threw him off the pitch - there was no attempt to [play the ball, and it included two hands on his back, and it was right in front of the ref who gave nothing. He also did nothing about the defender deliberately stamping on Joswiack's foot on the edge of the area, when it should have been a red card - and again there was no intention of playing the ball. Effectively he said to Blackburn do whatever you want to Joswiack, it's fine by me. He disallowed CKR's goal, presumably for a push on the defender, but completely ignored the push by Gallagher on Tom Lawrence when he scored his goal. And no, we wouldn't have been given the penalty if we were already ahead at that point - we are Derby County. We don't get penalties.

But in the end the deciding factors were of our own making, with two really poor pieces of defending. 5' 10" Lawrence against the biggest player on the pitch - was that before or after Byrne had broken  his neck? I can't remember. But it shouldn't have been Tom marking him. And it was another of those moments where you just knew it was going to be a goal. I got the "know" as the ball was being put down vaguely near the corner circle. And the substitutions sent out the message "It's all right lads. I know you've worked really hard and been really good, but now you can stop all the passing and moving, and simply lump the ball up to the big man. IT killed the game, because Blackburn know how to deal with high balls to a big man. So sadly we were undone by Wayne trying to be a tactical genius. Ho hum!

The only change we needed was Ebosele for Lawrence, who was done in by the end. And the peno decision - it couldn't have been because the ref wasn't sure - the defender went into the tackle with just his right leg out, but then swung his left leg across to make sure he got the man. 

There are plenty of performance to be happy about. Despite the flack, last night was Bird's best performance for a while. Yes he did pass sideways, and backwards on occasion, but plenty of times he surged forwards with the ball. No we didn't get a "George Thorne grass-skimming defence splitter", but he did plenty of positive things, and seems to have turned a corner. Joswiack did really well - like Johnny Russell he is great at holding on to the ball until other players arrive, although similarly his attacking end product is not so good. Like Roberts, he suffers with "Not-shooting-itus", because they are both one-footed, and are therefore constantly trying to get the ball onto there good leg, which is easy to defend against. Why these one-leggers don't seem to do anything to improve their weaker foot, I don't know.

We are a whole load of points short because of refereeing decisions, but most of our trouble has been from the insistence of not pressing and harrying the opposition, not going onto the front foot, and worrying to much about what the opposition might do. Last night showed us what happens when we simply rock up and do our own thing - it caught Blackburn out cold.

So where from here? Well, regardless of where we end up, lets go to the end of the season with the attitude we started last night's match with. I didn't lie the result, but it was enjoyable watching us at least having a go. Long may it continue - well, for the last few games anyway.

coyr

I agree with every word except your last paragraph. Id rather dislike watching us and our play and see us win like Wycombe away that play nice and lose like vs Reading, Norwich & Blackburn - but I get what you mean and for what its worth I think next season if Rooney is still here that is how he will want us to play most games.