The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[Archied]

3 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Then why persistently run down and denigrate people who are fighting for a better future for themselves and their families as if they're stealing something from you? I dislike shirkers, lead-swingers and lazy bar-stewards as much as you and @Archiedappear to, but I know they're a relatively small proportion of any particular trade or profession who don't represent the majority. 

I just get the impression from your posts that you're angry with the wrong people because their fight for better pay and to protect their working conditions inconveniences you?

Why can’t you grasp the fact that some will not go along with this special case rubbish , all it does is pit people against each other 

[Archied]

12 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

A working class hero who drives a £60 grand BMW and whines about champagne socialism. All the self-awareness of a common house brick. I'd best be off before another moronic to-and-fro ensues.

A working class man who drives a nice car ( far less than 60 k ) ,,,,, hmmm working class people can’t have nice things ? They can’t work hard and save ? Which one of us is promoting keeping the working classes in they’re place here ? ?, no far better they have nothing so the plastics can feel good about themselves lifting them ? It’s sham pain 

you can’t even see it

Edited January 3, 2023 by Archied

[Crewton]

4 minutes ago, Archied said:

Why can’t you grasp the fact that some will not go along with this special case rubbish , all it does is pit people against each other 

I really can't cope with this level of irony.

[Comrade 86]

2 minutes ago, Archied said:

A working class man who drives a nice car ( far less than 60 k ) ,,,,, hmmm working class people can’t have nice things ? It’s sham pain 

Drive what you like, just don't pretend your hard done by. It's tedious as fook. Literally everything you post is a strawman and you use these threads as a forum for your own weird therapy whilst illustrating every one of the character flaws you assign to folk you know nothing about. If you actually bothered to read what folk post before railing at them with your ridiculous little pet phrases, you might get taken a little more seriously. Anyway, time for me to do some work. The pleasure was all yours.

[Archied]

24 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

You don't even stand up for your own rights, instead you complain about people having it easier than you. 

I don’t even stand up for my own rights? What rights is it that I’m not standing up and missing out on ? 
pointing out that people are better off than they make out they are is NOT complaining about people having it easier than me 

you boys really need to get together and get your stories straight with each other 

one tells me I shouldn’t be driving a nice car and have a good lifestyle if working class

one tells me I shouldn’t be whining about people having it easier than me while one tells me I SHOULD be whining about the better off with they’re bonuses and dividends 

It is hilarious and bizzare , 

[Archied]

21 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Drive what you like, just don't pretend your hard done by. It's tedious as fook. Literally everything you post is a strawman and you use these threads as a forum for your own weird therapy whilst illustrating every one of the character flaws you assign to folk you know nothing about. If you actually bothered to read what folk post before railing at them with your ridiculous little pet phrases, you might get taken a little more seriously. Anyway, time for me to do some work. The pleasure was all yours.

But you clearly had a problem with what I drive or how I spend my hard earned money , ive have constantly made it clear I’m not hard done by , I’m a working class man and I’m good with that ,,make your mind ??‍♂️

Edited January 3, 2023 by Archied

[Crewton]

[1of4]

50 minutes ago, Archied said:

Why thank you stive and I do believe your being sincere and yes if had the power I would bloody well change the way this country/ world works , some just can’t get they’re head around the fact I don’t and won’t accept special cases ,, EVERYONE deserves a decent living and respect and unless you start from that point your wasting your time , nothing will change

Welcome comrade.

[i-Ram]

30 minutes ago, Archied said:

I don’t even stand up for my own rights? What rights is it that I’m not standing up and missing out on ? 
pointing out that people are better off than they make out they are is NOT complaining about people having it easier than me 

you boys really need to get together and get your stories straight with each other 

one tells me I shouldn’t be driving a nice car and have a good lifestyle if working class

one tells me I shouldn’t be whining about people having it easier than me while one tells me I SHOULD be whining about the better off with they’re bonuses and dividends 

It is hilarious and bizzare , 

Most of the armchair Socialists that occupy this thread are very comfortably well-off, middle class, forty-plus somethings. Their support of the downtrodden working man makes them feel superior.

Anyone got COVID at the moment?

Edited January 3, 2023 by i-Ram

[Archied]

34 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I really can't cope with this level of irony.

Why ? 
tell me why you can’t start from a point where the nurses are not a special case , you’ve been asked what you believe is realistic in the total mess this country is in but you want no part of that and what is so wrong in pointing out that there’s millions in far far worse position than nurses , what happens with them ? Why are they not special 

forgive me if I’ve got this wrong but you strike me ( like many on here ) as thinking it’s all about the bad old conservatives and getting labour in would solve everything, it won’t 

so so much damage has been done with stupid covid policies 

so so much damage is being done with stupid net zero rubbish 

so so much money is being wasted and or filtered out to the already too wealthy 

oh what’s the point ??‍♂️

[Mucker1884]

Anyone know where the coronavirus thread went?  

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

Then why persistently run down and denigrate people who are fighting for a better future for themselves and their families as if they're stealing something from you? I dislike shirkers, lead-swingers and lazy bar-stewards as much as you and @Archiedappear to, but I know they're a relatively small proportion of any particular trade or profession who don't represent the majority. 

I just get the impression from your posts that you're angry with the wrong people because their fight for better pay and to protect their working conditions inconveniences you?

Have I ran these people down?

Said I'm happy for them to have a payrise but think it should be funded internally by making the NHS more efficient. 

Ive then just given some examples of where I think the NHS wastes money.

I'm not angry and their fight doesn't inconvenience me, although it may make me a little poorer in the long run.

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, Mucker1884 said:

Anyone know where the coronavirus thread went?  

The Nurses and Ambulance Crew dispute is very much linked to what most of them went through during the pandemic, how they feel they've been emotionally blackmailed and undervalued by consecutive Conservative-dominated governments over the last 12.5 years, but I agree with Rebecca Vardy on one matter - it's pointless arguing with pigeons.

[Archied]

15 minutes ago, Crewton said:

The Nurses and Ambulance Crew dispute is very much linked to what most of them went through during the pandemic, how they feel they've been emotionally blackmailed and undervalued by consecutive Conservative-dominated governments over the last 12.5 years, but I agree with Rebecca Vardy on one matter - it's pointless arguing with pigeons.

And she totally believed her own lies to the point of deluded  ????

Edited January 3, 2023 by Archied

[Ram-Alf]

58 minutes ago, Crewton said:

The Nurses and Ambulance Crew dispute is very much linked to what most of them went through during the pandemic, how they feel they've been emotionally blackmailed and undervalued by consecutive Conservative-dominated governments over the last 12.5 years, but I agree with Rebecca Vardy on one matter - it's pointless arguing with pigeons.

Only because they were in Davy Jones locker 

[cstand]

[Crewton]

32 minutes ago, cstand said:

That was on 22nd November 1995, after 16 years of Conservative government. And here we are after 12 years of another Conservative Government with people making the same point. In total, 30 years of Conservative out of the last 43, so why is the NHS still burdened with an excess of bureaucracy? How many major reforms have they undertaken in that time? Of course, it's not just the Conservatives who've overseen that period, but why is it that a Party who routinely rail against waste and bureaucracy cannot seem to get a grip on the issue?

BTW, I don't recall anyone on here claiming that efficiency in the NHS couldn't be improved, but the simplistic arguments often touted on here seem not to have been picked up by successive governments. I wonder why?

 

[Ram-Alf]

10 minutes ago, Crewton said:

That was on 22nd November 1995, after 16 years of Conservative government. And here we are after 12 years of another Conservative Government with people making the same point. In total, 30 years of Conservative out of the last 43, so why is the NHS still burdened with an excess of bureaucracy? How many major reforms have they undertaken in that time? Of course, it's not just the Conservatives who've overseen that period, but why is it that a Party who routinely rail against waste and bureaucracy cannot seem to get a grip on the issue?

BTW, I don't recall anyone on here claiming that efficiency in the NHS couldn't be improved, but the simplistic arguments often touted on here seem not to have been picked up by successive governments. I wonder why?

 

It's a runaway train and has been longer than you have quoted, Managers start it...it's called protectionism, Have an under manager who employs an under manager, Who then sets a new directive of protectionism, People to look after people who look after people, Ordering equipment at 100% 200% 300% higher because it's the NHS, HR employ more to be inclusive and diverse who know people who know people that can be put into that place...Nepotism, Yet those that are crying for help...the Nurses who may I add were at the forefront of the Covid-19 crisis and have been held up as Angels and Saints by this Government and the Opposition, Who are now seen as being greedy...18% is wanted but will never be given if we are to believe the reports.

Strike action is the last resort for any worker, A ballot has been taken and a mandate for strike action was given to the Unions leaders, We're hearing 500 deaths a week are now attributed to the crisis in the NHS, But this doesn't effect those in Government they'll have private healthcare I'd guess...when public opinion turns on either the Government or the strikers then someone will be forced to back down...I see only one loser...the Tories, But there'll be more deaths before this happens. 

[Gaspode]

18 minutes ago, Crewton said:

That was on 22nd November 1995, after 16 years of Conservative government. And here we are after 12 years of another Conservative Government with people making the same point. In total, 30 years of Conservative out of the last 43, so why is the NHS still burdened with an excess of bureaucracy? How many major reforms have they undertaken in that time? Of course, it's not just the Conservatives who've overseen that period, but why is it that a Party who routinely rail against waste and bureaucracy cannot seem to get a grip on the issue?

BTW, I don't recall anyone on here claiming that efficiency in the NHS couldn't be improved, but the simplistic arguments often touted on here seem not to have been picked up by successive governments. I wonder why?

 

Not sure why you're trying to turn this into a party-political issue (actually I am entirely sure why, but let's leave it there) - but as you're asking, why didn't Labour fix it when they were in power either?

I can give you a clue what the issue is (and I speak as someone who worked on the ill-fated NHS Digital programme) - the NHS is too big and too intransigent to change - every single part of the NHS that we worked with considered themselves to be 'special' - and consequently, they were far too (self) important to change to a more efficiernt model. An absolute nightmare organisation that needs a complete overhaul, but any government that tried it would find the unions all over it and refusing to change. I reckon you could take 60-70% of the mangement out and no-one would notice (other than those remaining might be forced to work together in a more efficient manner) - just think how many front-line staff you could employ by re-distributing all that management money.....

[Mucker1884]

2 hours ago, Crewton said:

The Nurses and Ambulance Crew dispute is very much linked to what most of them went through during the pandemic, how they feel they've been emotionally blackmailed and undervalued by consecutive Conservative-dominated governments over the last 12.5 years, but I agree with Rebecca Vardy on one matter - it's pointless arguing with pigeons.

Fair comment.

So how about the thread gets renamed "The Politics (No longer banned, it seems), NHS disputes, and anything else remotely linked to coronavirus, but mainly politics thread"?
 

At least then, the reader would at least have a rough idea at what to expect.  As it is, the last few pages are so far removed from the thread title, it was like there was no relevance at all!  ?