Derby Fail to Pay Players On Time (Again)

[Boycie]

4 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

The point I'm trying to make which you've subsequently confirmed is that it's impossible for any independent person to validate this so is therefore inappropriate to use as a basis for defending Morris. 

I’m just giving the other side of the coin, yes he’s made mistakes haven’t we all?

Its the social media warriors who just post negatively about him that saddens me, they can’t see anything good about Morris.  If you try to highlight some positives they hit back with more negative spin.

At the old Moor Farm meet ups with Mel we reached out to known anti Mel posters to put concerns to him face to face, we got knocked back.

All except @Mostyn6, and to be fair, he did give his opinion, I think Mel wished he hadn’t of asked ?

well, if you think Mel was bad for Derby, I think you’d better buckle in tight, I think it could be a rough ride.

[oldtimeram]

He can do no wrong to many on here, but looking at his tenure overall, it's not been good.  Maybe he had good intentions for the club, but he's taken the club backwards since he took ownership.

Now he seems to have lost interest and wants out.

For his own and the club's sake, the sooner he goes, the better.

[BOB BIGGS]

4 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

I don't buy the posturing about Sam Rush, Morris was quick to give it the large one to everyone who he could get to listen to him about fiduciary mismanagement or whatever the term he used was but I am still waiting on his court case to appear against Rush.

As @Rev quite rightly points out Rush has gone on to further a very successful career. So maybe the issue actually lay far closer to Morris' door than he would care to admit. 

Sam Rush has continued to concentrate his career on the agents side of the game. He is probably perfect for that. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the Court case, I see no evidence that he did a good job for Derby County. 

We all take sides, normally without facts. Good job we don’t all see things the same way. 

[dcfcreece1601]

11 minutes ago, oldtimeram said:

He can do no wrong to many on here, but looking at his tenure overall, it's not been good.  Maybe he had good intentions for the club, but he's taken the club backwards since he took ownership.

Now he seems to have lost interest and wants out.

For his own and the club's sake, the sooner he goes, the better.

This , I do believe he had the clubs best intentions at heart but ultimately it hasn't worked , I don't think the vast majority of it is his fault though,  he put a lot of faith and money into managers that should of worked wonders on paper and didn't,  so I think its hard to judge mel himself 

[rynny]

21 minutes ago, oldtimeram said:

He can do no wrong to many on here, but looking at his tenure overall, it's not been good.  Maybe he had good intentions for the club, but he's taken the club backwards since he took ownership.

Now he seems to have lost interest and wants out.

For his own and the club's sake, the sooner he goes, the better.

And to you he can do no right. Constantly calling him, making assumptions like he has lost interest, wants out. 

[rynny]

2 hours ago, BIllyD said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2020/05/18/harry-redknapp-explains-how-got-frank-lampard-Derby-job-set-path-chelsea-manager-12719785/amp/

Harry Redknapp likes to tell his stories, doesn't he? Always seem as though the truth has been exaggerated and stretched. 

[BathRam72]

15 minutes ago, dcfcreece1601 said:

This , I do believe he had the clubs best intentions at heart but ultimately it hasn't worked , I don't think the vast majority of it is his fault though,  he put a lot of faith and money into managers that should of worked wonders on paper and didn't,  so I think its hard to judge mel himself 

While I agree with most of this. I think his main problem was that he is a fan. He lead with his heart and not his head at times (or that is what seemed to happen to me).

I think he listened to the fans too much and put his money in and when we didn't get instant success he saw the fan base moan and got rid.

Too many managers in too short a time.

Love his passion and his intentions, I just feel it could have been done a little better.

There is no doubt we are in a precarious position now, more so than when he took over.

 

[oldtimeram]

13 minutes ago, rynny said:

And to you he can do no right. Constantly calling him, making assumptions like he has lost interest, wants out. 

That's the way it seems to many, not just me 

[angieram]

55 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

The point I'm trying to make which you've subsequently confirmed is that it's impossible for any independent person to validate this so is therefore inappropriate to use as a basis for defending Morris. 

Therefore it is also inappropriate to use it as a basis for attacking him. 

Can't have it both ways.

[Ram-Alf]

Local owners in the main try to do the best for their local club, I remember Francis Lee multi millionaire becoming Man City Chairman, His famous last words were "the minute fans start to critisise me i'm off" and he was, Fans hold all the cards but have little say in how a football club is run, Fans will decide if they're doing a good job or a bad job.

MM tried his best, He brought in SR who at the time brought in players through an agency he was linked to...Wasserman, The fallout has started, Money started to drain away, MMs pockets became deeper and deeper, More advisers were brought one H Rednapp the man who shakes your hand then you have to check if that hand is still there.

Money was going into an Abyss, MM seems to have been let down on more than one occasion, Financial jiggery pokery was needed to fix the books, MM almost got away with it except the EFL in their wisdom took him to task, Pitty they didn't do the same with Bury, Blackpool, Bolton, Macclesfied et al, MM has had his fill, I can't blame him, You can only take so much of a financial hit, Finger pointing and back stabbing before you say...that's it i'm off.

You did your best MM, Unfortunately being a chairman of a football club aint no bed of roses.

[rynny]

1 minute ago, oldtimeram said:

That's the way it seems to many, not just me 

To many? Are we talking 10s? 100s? 1000s? 10000s? Or you just postulating? 

[Wolfie20]

42 minutes ago, oldtimeram said:

He can do no wrong to many on here, but looking at his tenure overall, it's not been good.  Maybe he had good intentions for the club, but he's taken the club backwards since he took ownership.

Now he seems to have lost interest and wants out.

For his own and the club's sake, the sooner he goes, the better.

Rubbish 

[CornwallRam]

10 minutes ago, James Pond said:

Local owners in the main try to do the best for their local club, I remember Francis Lee multi millionaire becoming Man City Chairman, His famous last words were "the minute fans start to critisise me i'm off" and he was, Fans hold all the cards but have little say in how a football club is run, Fans will decide if they're doing a good job or a bad job.

MM tried his best, He brought in SR who at the time brought in players through an agency he was linked to...Wasserman, The fallout has started, Money started to drain away, MMs pockets became deeper and deeper, More advisers were brought one H Rednapp the man who shakes your hand then you have to check if that hand is still there.

Money was going into an Abyss, MM seems to have been let down on more than one occasion, Financial jiggery pokery was needed to fix the books, MM almost got away with it except the EFL in their wisdom took him to task, Pitty they didn't do the same with Bury, Blackpool, Bolton, Macclesfied et al, MM has had his fill, I can't blame him, You can only take so much of a financial hit, Finger pointing and back stabbing before you say...that's it i'm off.

You did your best MM, Unfortunately being a chairman of a football club aint no bed of roses.

Actually Sam Rush was here before Mel Morris bought the club from GSE. Indeed, Mel even cited having such a superb CEO as being one of the reasons he invested.

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, Boycie said:

At the old Moor Farm meet ups with Mel we reached out to known anti Mel posters to put concerns to him face to face, we got knocked back.

What a surprise. Happy to put a knife in his back when behind a keyboard but running scared when they get an opportunity to voice their concerns in person. Lame AF.

53 minutes ago, oldtimeram said:

He can do no wrong to many on here

Can you find a single post - any one will do - where anybody states 'he can do no wrong', or words even remotely to that effect?

16 minutes ago, oldtimeram said:

That's the way it seems to many, not just me

You don't speak for many, just yourself. What you think other folk may or may not believe is completely irrelevant unless you are defending your statement by effectively saying, 'I've no thoughts of my own, I'm a sheep'. It was put to you that you can see no benefit in anything Mel has done. Do you want to address that or just continue hiding behind others?

[Barney1991]

Crazy when you think Morris has had probably as many legal and court cases as top 6 six finishes in his 5 years here 

[Mihangel]

1 hour ago, oldtimeram said:

He can do no wrong to many on here, but looking at his tenure overall, it's not been good.  Maybe he had good intentions for the club, but he's taken the club backwards since he took ownership.

Now he seems to have lost interest and wants out.

For his own and the club's sake, the sooner he goes, the better.

Thing is, on many topics, people adopt a binary stance and stuff their heels in. You seem to have done precisely that. Clearly not everything has worked out for Mel Morris but just as clearly there are positives, the academy being the primary and most obvious of those.

We've been very competitive in most seasons of Morris' stewardship and one could argue that we've been unlucky not to make it to the 'promised land. I don't think that I disagreed with any of his managerial choices but with hindsight some of them were incorrect. On that subject, managerial choices are subject to large chunks of luck, marrying club to manager at the right time. Man It's had 20 glorious years with Fergie but were most poo beforehand and since.

[Tyler Durden]

33 minutes ago, angieram said:

Therefore it is also inappropriate to use it as a basis for attacking him. 

Can't have it both ways.

Where did I use it as a method of attacking him? Merely responding to the original post as being baseless and being unable to be substantiated therefore not valid to use it as a method for progressing the argument being ventured. 

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, BOB BIGGS said:

Sam Rush has continued to concentrate his career on the agents side of the game. He is probably perfect for that. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the Court case, I see no evidence that he did a good job for Derby County. 

We all take sides, normally without facts. Good job we don’t all see things the same way. 

I prefer to stick to the facts which is why I pulled the OP up about making unsubstantiated remarks to further their own argument. 

If you state that you cannot see any evidence that Rush did a good job at Derby then the logical conclusion of this was that he was doing a bad job - if this was the case why would a supine incompetent be allowed to be recruited and operate for a number of years in a key position at the football club?

[oldtimeram]

1 hour ago, oldtimeram said:

He can do no wrong to many on here, but looking at his tenure overall, it's not been good.  Maybe he had good intentions for the club, but he's taken the club backwards since he took ownership.

Now he seems to have lost interest and wants out.

For his own and the club's sake, the sooner he goes, the better.

Ok, from the reactions I seem to be way out of kilter in my opinion of Mr Morris, so I'll say no more on this subject

 

 

 

[Comrade 86]

Ref Sam Rush: what happened and what could be proved, are not necessarily the same thing. Sadly, Mel and / or the club went after Rush like an enraged bull and completely destroyed their own case in doing so. Anyone who has managed an employee out of a business before will be surprised to read how they went about it (a brief outline from Keystone, Rush's legal team, is linked below) but not surprised that the unfair dismissal claim was upheld, nor that the balance of their charges was, as a result, fatally undermined. It smacks of Mel being so furious that he could not even bear to be in a room with Rush, let alone conduct extensive disciplinary procedures. Did Mel fully heed the advice of his legal team? I have my doubts but I’m surprised at those who cite this as some sort of ‘proof’ that Rush’s conduct was in anyway befitting of his post.

https://www.keystonelaw.com/news/employment-tribunal-finds-keystone-client-sam-rush-was-unfairly-dismissed-by-Derby-county#:~:text=29 March 2018

As for Rush's dealings, I guess if folk believe the £700k paid to Claire Ince Promotions Ltd was legitimate and all above board, then there'll be no convincing them. Interestingly, the Ince's scouting fees threw up two players - Sam Winnall and none other than Nick Blackman. 

Likewise, the Wasserman scouting agreement whereby Rush okayed a fee to his own firm in excess of £1.1 million for USA and French scouting activities, services which ultimately yielded only one single report which itself highlighted only two players. Those players happened to be French international strikers, Kylian Mbappe and Ousmane Dembele. Really!!! And he did all of this whilst being paid over £500,000 a year by Mel, making him comfortably the best paid CEO in the division. 

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/Derby-news/Derby-county-sam-rush-court-1397281

Technically, I concede, no law was broken, least none that could be proven, but if anyone feels that Rush and WMG provided anything remotely akin to 'value', I've a bridge or two to sell them. Quite tellingly, Rush has not secured another position akin to his Derby role since being shown the door and is now back hawking players to clubs for a living. Make of that what you will.

When all is said and done, there's a certain irony in the fact that Rush is still held in such high regard by some on here and yet it's now open season on Morris despite many of his 'mistakes' being directly attributable to Rush and other senior management and him having ploughed over £150 million of his own money into the club. Has Mel himself made mistakes? Of course, who hasn't, but has he at least tried to drive the club forward, even though it can't be disputed that in several important regards, he has failed. Does that however justify some of the comments being made currently? Not by a stretch IMO, but from the safety of their armchairs, his critics will continue to ladle on scorn and doubt with scant regard or respect for positives under his tenure. 

Some folk ask why he wants to sell up - I should have thought that'd be obvious by now.