All this talk of relegation

[Tyler Durden]

We're doomed

[Mafiabob]

 

[Tombo]

If you average 1.5 points a game from the start of the season to the end, you have 70 points and in some seasons that's a playoff place.

If we now, from Tuesday to the end of the season, average 1.5 points a game, we will end the season on 55 points and probably stay up.

We need near playoff-contending form from now on to stay up. This is dire.

[Asanovic70]

Jamie Ward left a while back, but I remember when he first signed in 2011, Clough brought  him in to add a bit of spite to the team , the niggly sort of player - with the ability to match - who riles the opposition, echoing @wollatonram about getting in their faces. He was certainly part of our success getting to play-offs.

I think Lampard's trio of PL loans papered over the cracks & deficiencies of the rest of the squad, his loans were brilliant, all three improved the spine of the team, but we were weaker as soon as they left - his permanent signings have been less impressive with their long-term contribution, Holmes has shown glimpses, Waghorn (disappointing this season), Evans  & Marriott, who I like, the most frustrating of all as he struggled to nail a place down. 

I think most of our recent signings since '14 & the play-offs signed on for a particular project, promotion, & of course, managerial upheaval did not help but we failed in that objective because we were never consistent enough to grind out results to finish in the top two. I now think we're now stuck with a squad, in the main, who are not up for a relegation battle, it's not something that was in the brochure when they signed up. 

Every game is now a slog as they are in a dogfight as Colin Kazim-Richards pointed out. The games now are less about fancy football, and 'a grind' as CKR kind of put it, which requires a completely different mentality, not fancy dans but players prepared to scrap. I suppose this is why many of us like Knight, it's clear that he relishes playing/competing, whatever the circumstances. 

I'm not keen on Rooney as manager, however, I thought he was genuine in his disappointment (post match) and I think he is beginning to realize the squad, in its current state, is not up to the task & whether he has full trust in them to get out of the mire. They lack belief & their confidence is shot. He's trying another strategy & it remains to be seen if it can yield results. I also wonder if he is conscious about what happened to Gary Neville & if he's received advice about whether this is the right first job. It may be the right sort of job in terms of a prestigious club, but at the wrong time (relegation battle). I'm also beginning to think if an experienced manager would also struggle to turn things around quickly (Nigel Adkins for example).

There are few positives at the moment. If Rooney is appointed, I only hope that he is already thinking about making loans/additions in January, especially more options in attack/a focal point & more creativity in midfield.

 

[Pearl Ram]

1 minute ago, Tombo said:

We need near playoff-contending form from now on to stay up. This is dire.

I swear to God, I was just going to post we need promotion chasing form to get out of this mire and then ask if anyone could see that happening.

So, for me, you’ve just hit the nail on the head. 

[Derby blood]

We look awful. And lack confidence, which ever players play, we just don't look good enough, first half was much better, then second half we went back into our shel, and in the end was lucky to get a point against Wycombe, its not looking good that's for sure. We need to change it and quick, do we look like a team who could go down the answer is Yes we do, we need wins and fast. 

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, Derby blood said:

We look awful. And lack confidence, which ever players play, we just don't look good enough, first half was much better, then second half we went back into our shel, and in the end was lucky to get a point against Wycombe, its not looking good that's for sure. We need to change it and quick, do we look like a team who could go down the answer is Yes we do, we need wins and fast. 

Not that fast though .

A few loans and Darren Fletcher helping Rooney. 
 

That’s a bit left field right. 

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, Pearl Ram said:

I swear to God, I was just going to post we need promotion chasing form to get out of this mire and then ask if anyone could see that happening.

So, for me, you’ve just hit the nail on the head. 

We don’t .

Beat Coventry and then look at the table 

[europia]

Coventry are a better footballing team than Wycombe, and they have a decent manager in Mark Robins. 

[Curtains]

4 minutes ago, europia said:

Coventry are a better footballing team than Wycombe, and they have a decent manager in Mark Robins. 

Funny thing I looked at the scores thread and most had us losing today on here. 

[Curtains]

6 minutes ago, europia said:

Coventry are a better footballing team than Wycombe, and they have a decent manager in Mark Robins. 

I think we can beat them 

[Alph]

I think we can beat them. But they can definitely beat us. Scoring twice should do it because we just don't score goals which is the biggest worry. 

If you look like scoring every week but keep getting beat then you'll get some luck here and there. 

Any team who focuses on clean sheets or can't score goals gives themselves little room for error. 

-15GD isn't a bit of bad luck here and there. It's plain we're doing a lot wrong.

[Roboram]

The last time we were relegated from the 2nd tier was in 1983/84.

At this stage of that season we were 9 points better off than we are now.

Wake up & smell the coffee folks. We are in massive trouble.

This side isn’t capable of getting 3 wins on the trot, which is the minimum that’s  needed just to give us a hint of chance.

I really hope I’m wrong but.....

We’re going down. Sorry guys 

[Xlor]

I keep reading about the January transfer window but what players of quality will want to come to a team at the bottom of the league unless we offer ridiculous wages? Somehow, it's got to turn around before then and I'm struggling to see how. 

[BondJovi]

I forget who posted the stats about championship teams changing manager midseason but they seem rather more relevant now.

I believe before the QPR game our chances of staying up were best if we didn't sack the manager, however if we were to get a new manager in that was the time to do.

Somehow we have managed to find ourselves in a position where the man in charge has zero managerial experience and has been part of the failings getting us into this trouble.

Since Cocu left we have just been wasting time. It doesn't seem to matter what team we pick, it is the same old story

Looking good for a half against Wycombe is a long way from being disappointed to get a point at Bournemouth.

[Alph]

6 minutes ago, Xlor said:

I keep reading about the January transfer window but what players of quality will want to come to a team at the bottom of the league unless we offer ridiculous wages? Somehow, it's got to turn around before then and I'm struggling to see how. 

Exactly. What kind of deal can we offer them in this position. 

If anything I would have thought clubs might test our determination to hold on to our best players. 

[Alph]

4 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

I forget who posted the stats about championship teams changing manager midseason but they seem rather more relevant now.

I believe before the QPR game our chances of staying up were best if we didn't sack the manager, however if we were to get a new manager in that was the time to do.

Somehow we have managed to find ourselves in a position where the man in charge has zero managerial experience and has been part of the failings getting us into this trouble.

Since Cocu left we have just been wasting time. It doesn't seem to matter what team we pick, it is the same old story

Looking good for a half against Wycombe is a long way from being disappointed to get a point at Bournemouth.

I think fresh eyes on things was the way to go after Cocu. Any team thats struggling surely is pointing fingers at each other. If not openly then that mentality is likely there? 

It's nice to think the troops could rally themselves but I wouldn't bet on it with League 1 sniffing our booty hole. 

Fresh energy with a fresh perspective is what hoped for. 

Rooney and Rosenior might just do it. But that's a big gamble when both were supposed to have important roles before. I don't believe for one second Cocu ruled with an iron fist. The guys that are currently here have no new powers really that they didn't have before. 

[brady1993]

11 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Exactly. What kind of deal can we offer them in this position. 

If anything I would have thought clubs might test our determination to hold on to our best players. 

Especially when we keep benching a bunch of them.....

[Jourdan]

I don’t think we are doomed, but we really need to start winning these key games.

So far this season:

Luton (A) = L

Huddersfield (A) = L

Barnsley (H) = L

QPR (H) = L

Wycombe (H) = D

Such damaging results in our current situation. We have gifted points to at least four teams who would have started the season with relegation concerns. It is unforgivable. We desperately need to reverse this trend.

In the next five weeks:

Coventry (H) - 20th

Preston (H) - 18th

Birmingham (A) - 17th

Rotherham (A) - 19th

Sheff Wed (A) - 23rd

If we are looking at the ‘magic 50 points’ to survive, we need 43 points from 32 games. So 12 wins and 7 draws as a rough estimate.

The games above could make all the difference. Beat Coventry and Rotherham and suddenly we’re breathing down their necks. Beat Birmingham and Preston and suddenly you have two more teams who have to nervously look over their shoulders.

I think if we are going to give ourselves a fighting chance, I think we need at least 4 more wins by the halfway stage in January and need to start making these teams sweat. Right now everyone is looking at us as a gimme. We have to change that.

Anything less and I think it will require the greatest of greatest escapes.

[brady1993]

3 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I think fresh eyes on things was the way to go after Cocu. Any team thats struggling surely is pointing fingers at each other. If not openly then that mentality is likely there? 

It's nice to think the troops could rally themselves but I wouldn't bet on it with League 1 sniffing our booty hole. 

Fresh energy with a fresh perspective is what hoped for. 

Rooney and Rosenior might just do it. But that's a big gamble when both were supposed to have important roles before. I don't believe for one second Cocu ruled with an iron fist. The guys that are currently here have no new powers really that they didn't have before. 

Call me crazy but I don't think we would have gone down under Cocu, I think we'd have eventually had something go for us and drift to a lower midtable position. In a lot of games I came away thinking we just need a little bit more of this or that  and to settle on a side. 

By no means am I saying his position was tenable, it wasn't and their was clearly a chance he could take us down and we needed to change. But once that decision was made we needed to act quickly and decisively, get someone, give them the international break to settle and completely clear the decks with the coaching staff (that includes Rooney). Or at a bare minimum put someone impartial in charge as an interim like Wassell or Pat Lyons.

For whatever reason we've prevaricated with the ludicrous current set up who like you point out clearly weren't going to offer anything new and now I honestly think it's going to be a monumental task for someone to overturn it, especially when why would anyone in their right mind take the current job ? A bottom of the league team with possibly several staff members disgruntled at not getting the job, one of which you have to deal with as part of your squad? We've gone from needing a few adjustments to set things straight to looking like relegation fodder.

Maybe Mac would take it given he's already here but I just can't see anyone else seriously taking it who might have two weeks ago.