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Cocu meeting the board today

Arsene Titman

By Arsene Titman
in Derby County Forum

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Ellafella

Ellafella

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

(To start I appreciate the compliments)

To be honest I think experience of the championship is an overrated trait. Most of the managers who have a bunch of experience at this level haven't the ability to get you promoted and keep you there hence why they've managed 20 clubs at this level. 

As to your other points.... you might be right as much as I don't like admitting because they are traits I value in a person. 

Thing is he guided us through an inordinate amount of nonsense last year and I don't think that was a fluke. I do wonder how much this year it's a case of starting on the wrong foot and then a series of moments and mistakes spiralling from there. Like what happens if the Jozwiak goal counts against forest? Or Lawrence and Waghorn are fit to start the season ? Or Jozwiak and Te Wierik signed back in January like what was planned ? Or what if he still had Keogh?  This isn't me trying to make excuses more thinking out loud considering the fine margins and gathering of momentum thay accounts for so many results at this level.

Agree. Very fine margins. A wrong lineman’s flag at Huddersfield (?) and another one at Florist and we’re 4 points down. I really would like Phillip to do well because like yourself i would get along with him really well. However, perhaps he’s too nice to properly do well here.

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WilkoRam

WilkoRam

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I think every fan realises it’s not working and bar a miraculous turnout it seems only one outcome. 
I for one was excited by Cocu’s appointment. I said he needed time as he inherited a squad late, that had lost Wilson, Mount and Tomori and had signings he clearly had no say in. He then had the drink drive incident to deal with, the injury and sacking to the club captain, the EFL charges, COVID and I’m sure I’m probably forgetting something from the list. We had a purple patch of nice football, goals and youngsters playing well. He then had this season with injuries and no No9 being signed until we went for CKR, who is a backup at best. 
I saw such improvements in performances against Huddersfield (1st half), Forest, Cardiff and Bournemouth. I felt if we played like that and had a good result against QPR we’d be ok. The QPR game was horrendous though. We’d changed from a formation that we’d got comfortable with and played well with and went to something that produced such a boring display it was shocking considering what was at stake. You could look at that game in isolation and say it was an off day, after some encouraging performances, however you can’t argue with our lack of creativity, lack of goals and lack of points. It feels strange for me to go from backing him to thinking it’s time in the space of a game but it’s not just one game, it’s the straw that broke the camels back. 
We have talent in this squad and it never feels like we’re creative enough with that talent, there’s no plan in their final 3rd. The build up before that at times is lovely stuff (at other times not so much) but we get near their box and nothing. Sometimes due to being too slow and other times it seems like the players have no idea what to do.   
So for me it’s time to look at changing (bar above mentioned miraculous turnaround). What I’m not happy with is people who are attacking Cocu and name calling. It’s childish and also unnecessary, he’s a nice guy and just because it’s not working doesn’t justify abuse. Also people who are gloating that they were right when they said he would fail. You’re celebrating us failing, just to gloat about being correct. Just think about that. 
 

Finally, if anyone is still reading, if we get a new manager I hope we don’t go for any of the tired old seasoned Championship managers.  

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Ellafella

Ellafella

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4 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

Tis ever so, and no doubt applies to every club ever, apart from brief moments of glory.

Ours are just briefer than most!

If Mel stays as “Consultant” he’ll probably recruit the next manager. Now, I greatly admire Mel and his many qualities. But, his recruitment record is a real Achilles heel:

1. Clement. Inherited a great squad. Turned quality football into a bore fest.

2. Mac2 - pulled the trigger too soon.

3. Pearson - words fail me.

4. Rowett - sold the family silver for magic beans. Then scarpered.

5. Lampard - Used us to pass his driving test then hopped into his dream car.

6. Cocu - did he check out what PSV FANS say? 
So maybe we need a total change of methodology when appointing the next chap. 

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RoyMac5

RoyMac5

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35 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

I know it's different personnel of course, but for some reason we always seem to end up with very hard to manage playing squads in this Mel Morris era.

Finished it!

That also is bananas. They weren't hard to manage when we were winning last season were they? They're no different to any other squad in their mix of player personalities I think. But also surely Cocu has been buying/keeping players with good personalities? Didn't some rejoice when Martin left as he was such a bad egg, Keogh too?

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RoyMac5

RoyMac5

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5 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

If Mel stays as “Consultant” he’ll probably recruit the next manager. Now, I greatly admire Mel and his many qualities. But, his recruitment record is a real Achilles heel:

1. Clement. Inherited a great squad. Turned quality football into a bore fest.

2. Mac2 - pulled the trigger too soon.

3. Pearson - words fail me.

4. Rowett - sold the family silver for magic beans. Then scarpered.

5. Lampard - Used us to pass his driving test then hopped into his dream car.

6. Cocu - did he check out what PSV FANS say? 
So maybe we need a total change of methodology when appointing the next chap. 

Err you leaving out sacking Mac1 (after Mac said he'd committed to us, the most heinous of them all!)?

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Ellafella

Ellafella

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4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Err you leaving out sacking Mac1 (after Mac said he'd committed to us, the most heinous of them all!)?

Yes. Mac didn’t leave him much choice and I was talking about Mel’s recruitment predilection ie to go for the Hollywood option without checking the basics like what brand of football do you favour etc, rather than his firing. 

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Rev

Rev

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9 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

Cocu - did he check out what PSV FANS say? 
So maybe we need a total change of methodology when appointing the next chap. 

What did PSV fans say?

I mean, I've heard they hated his negative defensive football that bought them a Dutch FA cup while caretaker, then 3 league titles in four years while also making the Champions League quarter final for the first time in ages, while turning a £150m profit on players. 

But I've only heard they've said this, I've never actually read multiple articles across his time as manager that lends this opinion credence?

I've seen one, which wasn't actually that scathing.

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G-Ram

G-Ram

Posted
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15 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

If Mel stays as “Consultant” he’ll probably recruit the next manager. Now, I greatly admire Mel and his many qualities. But, his recruitment record is a real Achilles heel:

1. Clement. Inherited a great squad. Turned quality football into a bore fest.

2. Mac2 - pulled the trigger too soon.

3. Pearson - words fail me.

4. Rowett - sold the family silver for magic beans. Then scarpered.

5. Lampard - Used us to pass his driving test then hopped into his dream car.

6. Cocu - did he check out what PSV FANS say? 
So maybe we need a total change of methodology when appointing the next chap. 

Not necessarily. If id just spent 60m on a football club i wouldn't let the bloke id just bought it off pick the next manager. I might keep him around for a consultant in terms of day to day running but i wouldn't want him picking my next manager 

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mwram1973

mwram1973

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1 minute ago, TimRam said:

I'd like to have seen a full-strength Cocu side before making a decision (Beilk and Ibe fully fit in other words). However I fear Mel/board won't wait that long. It will be a while before both are at that level of fitness.

The problem for me is, the team we are putting out now, on paper are good enough to beat most sides in this division imo yet we find ourselves 1 win in 10 and at the bottom of the league.

I've always been pro Cocu, but for me, now, enough is enough.

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Ellafella

Ellafella

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5 minutes ago, G-Ram said:

Not necessarily. If id just spent 60m on a football club i wouldn't let the bloke id just bought it off pick the next manager. I might keep him around for a consultant in terms of day to day running but i wouldn't want him picking my next manager 

So who does get that task then?

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Chris_Martin

Chris_Martin

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6 minutes ago, TimRam said:

I'd like to have seen a full-strength Cocu side before making a decision (Beilk and Ibe fully fit in other words). However I fear Mel/board won't wait that long. It will be a while before both are at that level of fitness.

Yes he hasn't had Bielik and Ibe, but the squad he has had is more than capable of top 6

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Ellafella

Ellafella

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8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Sorry don't agree with that AT ALL. Mel's ego got in the way. I'd have bet on Mac taking us up if Mel had accepted that good managers are wanted by bigger teams.

You’re possibly right - I suspect Mel had already got ideas about bringing Clement in as a Hollywood coup. 

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RoyMac5

RoyMac5

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3 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

You’re possibly right - I suspect Mel had already got ideas about bringing Clement in as a Hollywood coup. 

Ha. Possibly so, it does seem to be his 'party trick'. I'm not to bothered about Mel going to be honest, especially when you look at where we are to where we were when he bought us. We survived the 3 Amigos and Maxwell, so let's give it another go! Sheik yer money guys!

Edit: for all the poo Rush gets I'm sure we'd not have had Mac without him?

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