Sack cocu

[CornwallRam]

16 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

Since Blackburn we have been just about steadily improving. We perhaps should have more points than we do.

I just didn't feel the players appreciated or were bothered by the situation. Yet in the previous game I felt they gave it all.

Something far more drastic has to have changed in 4 days than a formation change. Maybe they had had enough and decided to not play for the manager, but they still could have played for the club and the fans. But they didn't. I am surprised that people can happily gloss over that but go into meltdown that Cocu isn't waving his arms and screaming in the sidelines.

 

From what I heard the formation was hugely important. Before Norwich there was the big meeting. The players expressed concern over Cocu's system. It was decided that a different system had to be tried. The staff and players agreed that five at the back, with a more direct approach was worth a try. The players bought into it as it was largely their idea.

Last night Cocu reverted back to his system - which he was always going to do. No point in being a manager and not doing things your way. The problem is that the players have no confidence in Cocu's system. 

[brady1993]

46 minutes ago, ramit said:

i agree that Mac could probably get much more out the available players, but in the unlikely event that he gets appointed until the end of the season and he builds a solid foundation, i see no reason to not let him have another season, but then again Mac would likely demand a longer deal than that. 

Wassall as caretaker manager for the short term, might be the best choice, given the uncertainty of the ownership situation.

Whilst I rate Mac and thought he was undeservedly sacked both times, I have doubts about on a longer term. Mostly due to transfer activity and that once things start going a bit wrong they seem to go really wrong at times.

Wassell would be high up on the list for me as well. His record with the academy is stellar, he knows the club and will have worked closely with a bunch of the young players. He is a good balance between being close to the club but having distance from the current management. He also managed to previously shake of the teams shackles and get them believing in themselves again.

 

[rusgb]

It's quite a depressing thing to point out but the last time we had 6 points after the opening 10 games was 2007/08... We only got our 7th point after 18 games. Good lord that was a shower of...

I do see similarities, or at least predict similarities. If you read interviews with the players from 07/08 they talk about how flat they felt, how they thought everything was against them. However, a change of manager back then did not help and I (along with quite a few others) feel that Billy should have stayed in post.

For me, the big difference is the squad. If I look at 07/08 the team did not have the ability, nor the potential for the league they were in. I cannot say that of us today, we have some outstanding young talent, solid mid-career Championship players and Wayne effing Rooney! The style of play and sheer lack of shots on goal is a huge concern and I personally think a change of leadership would make sense. They need to try and enjoy the game and be creative, I would have no objection to McClaren, we need that injection of energy into our play. 

[richinspain]

48 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Probably has more of a clue ... get him in I say 

With our luck he'd probably still give a dodgy penalty against us and disallow a perfectly good goal.

[ramsbottom]

1 hour ago, DRBee said:

Do you only take account of goal s and ignore everything else? The first half caution , the frequent misplaced passes and giving the ball away made this a dreadful performance. We could ignore that if playing poorly was an isolated event but its become a pattern. How many goals ahve we actually scored in our 10 matches? Nowhere near what is acceptable. What 4 first choice attackers were mssing last night?

If you actually studied the post instead of charging in, keyboard blazing you’d have noticed I was commenting on the Watford game, where we were without the services of Waghorn Jozwiak, Ibe & and apart from the last 20 minutes, Lawrence...

But to be fair to your comments our goal scoring and creativity hasn’t improved a great deal since the majority of those players came back in. Which may be to do with fitness/sharpness, or Cocu’s negativity. Or both.  I think if we’d have stuck with 3-4-3 we’d have gotten a better result last night as there were green chutes of improvement , but the shoehorning of Rooney into the side has left a bitter taste in my mouth

[angieram]

51 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

From what I heard the formation was hugely important. Before Norwich there was the big meeting. The players expressed concern over Cocu's system. It was decided that a different system had to be tried. The staff and players agreed that five at the back, with a more direct approach was worth a try. The players bought into it as it was largely their idea.

Last night Cocu reverted back to his system - which he was always going to do. No point in being a manager and not doing things your way. The problem is that the players have no confidence in Cocu's system. 

That makes sense to me because it felt like last night the players didn't believe they were going to win, whereas there has been no lack of effort in any of the other recent games.

[BriggRam]

6 hours ago, StarterForTen said:

14 goals scored in the last 19 first team fixtures; only once in that time (the dead rubber that was the last game of last season) have Derby scored more than once in a game. In that time - four months - the team has had Martin, Waghorn, Rooney, Lawrence, Sibley, Holmes, Jozwiak playing forward roles at various times. 

You missed out Wisdom..

[brady1993]

1 hour ago, CornwallRam said:

From what I heard the formation was hugely important. Before Norwich there was the big meeting. The players expressed concern over Cocu's system. It was decided that a different system had to be tried. The staff and players agreed that five at the back, with a more direct approach was worth a try. The players bought into it as it was largely their idea.

Last night Cocu reverted back to his system - which he was always going to do. No point in being a manager and not doing things your way. The problem is that the players have no confidence in Cocu's system. 

Did you hear this or have you inferred it ? (Not being accusatory just curious) The reason I ask is because the 343 wasn't something that was completely out of the blue, we'd already looked at it in pre-season as an option and against barrow (if I recall correctly). The level of directness was new I'll grant you but ultimately that system had clear flaws it was ok for being solid and competitive but left us bereft of control over the game and we needed to find a way to adjust.

Now, this is the bit I'm not sure about did cocu revert back last night ? It's easy to say it was because it was a 4231 (although in the second half it shifted to more a 433) and perhaps we were less direct but we weren't really looking to play it out from the back and through the lines either. And we still had the combative midfield with Davies in the heart of defence. It could be that's what we were trying to do but executed it extremely poorly or could have been an attempt to compromise between the two that ended up being neither.

Personally if I was him on saturday, I'd really stop compromising. Put the players I'd bought in, ditch out anyone who wasn't technically up to snuff, bring back some of academy lads and have one last real roll of the dice.

[CornwallRam]

11 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Did you hear this or have you inferred it ? (Not being accusatory just curious) The reason I ask is because the 343 wasn't something that was completely out of the blue, we'd already looked at it in pre-season as an option and against barrow (if I recall correctly). The level of directness was new I'll grant you but ultimately that system had clear flaws it was ok for being solid and competitive but left us bereft of control over the game and we needed to find a way to adjust.

Now, this is the bit I'm not sure about did cocu revert back last night ? It's easy to say it was because it was a 4231 (although in the second half it shifted to more a 433) and perhaps we were less direct but we weren't really looking to play it out from the back and through the lines either. And we still had the combative midfield with Davies in the heart of defence. It could be that's what we were trying to do but executed it extremely poorly or could have been an attempt to compromise between the two that ended up being neither.

Personally if I was him on saturday, I'd really stop compromising. Put the players I'd bought in, ditch out anyone who wasn't technically up to snuff, bring back some of academy lads and have one last real roll of the dice.

I heard it through a friend of a fiend. Supposedly it came via a player. Whether it is true or not I couldn't say, but I've not seen or heard anything to make me disbelieve it.

I agree with your last point. If he is going to be sacked, he might as well go out doing everything his way.

[brady1993]

2 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I heard it through a friend of a fiend. Supposedly it came via a player. Whether it is true or not I couldn't say, but I've not seen or heard anything to make me disbelieve it.

I agree with your last point. If he is going to be sacked, he might as well go out doing everything his way.

Honestly I find that more concerning in that case especially coming off the back of only 3 games and the performance it came off not really being down to tactical issues (although you can argue about the selection issues)

[roboto]

7 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I heard it through a friend of a fiend. Supposedly it came via a player. Whether it is true or not I couldn't say, but I've not seen or heard anything to make me disbelieve it.

I agree with your last point. If he is going to be sacked, he might as well go out doing everything his way.

This one?

Or this one?

[wixman1884]

11 hours ago, Ramfan1958 said:

Can't believe you think he's done a job,  results & performances don't lie tell me one match when we looked a proper team ? 

eh?

[JustOneBiblicalKazim]

11 hours ago, angieram said:

Philip Cocu

Chris van der Weeden

Twan Scheepers

Liam Rosenior

Shane Givens

Wayne Rooney

Justin Walker 

- next to bottom of the league

Pat Lyons

Gary Bowyer

- top of the league.

Too many cooks spoil the broth.

 

Is Wassall not the 23’s manager any more?

[angieram]

2 minutes ago, JustOneChrissyMartin said:

Is Wassall not the 23’s manager any more?

Not directly, he's the director of the academy overall (all teams). Pat Lyons has been in charge for a couple of seasons. 

[GenBr]

6 minutes ago, JustOneChrissyMartin said:

Is Wassall not the 23’s manager any more?

Wassall is academy director now. Oversees all age groups

[JustOneBiblicalKazim]

2 minutes ago, angieram said:

Not directly, he's the director of the academy overall (all teams). Pat Lyons has been in charge for a couple of seasons. 

Hadn’t realised that, he’s usually on the touch line in games though ain’t he?

[angieram]

2 hours ago, JustOneChrissyMartin said:

Hadn’t realised that, he’s usually on the touch line in games though ain’t he?

Not always, but if you think that is his voice you can hear, I think him and Pat Lyons sound exactly the same. 

You can tell when he's there as he swears a lot! 

[Bubbles]

2 more weeks. can’t sack someone who isn’t there!

[dantheram]

For the love of god. Sack the clown! 

[belperram9]

Get rid and get rid now! All of the back room staff as well, and that arrogant tin pot ‘coach’ Rosenior.

Cocu the clown and his circus have rolled into town, destroyed the club and the will soon be leaving hopefully.