Sack cocu

[Marriot Ram99]

1 hour ago, MikeS said:

How long does any decent manager require to make a mark on a team, good or bad?. Four years????

18 months at most in the current era, days of managers staying for 4 or 5 years on the whole are long gone. 

[Carnero]

If it weren't for a remarkable goal-line clearance that prevented us becoming the first team to beat Bournemouth this season, the usual suspects would have been silent tonight.

Decent 1-1 draws v Forest, Cardiff & Bournemouth really shouldn't be giving impetus to this thread.

Haters gonna hate, I guess.

[AndyinLiverpool]

2 minutes ago, Carnero said:

If it weren't for a remarkable goal-line clearance that prevented us becoming the first team to beat Bournemouth this season, the usual suspects would have been silent tonight.

Decent 1-1 draws v Forest, Cardiff & Bournemouth really shouldn't be giving impetus to this thread.

Haters gonna hate, I guess.

Astonishingly, for some an away draw at undefeated Bournemouth seems to be the last straw.

[Millenniumram]

4 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Astonishingly, for some an away draw at undefeated Bournemouth seems to be the last straw.

It’s almost like you have to take into account more than just the result... which is something the happy clappers were at pains to point out earlier in the season. Ironic.

For what it’s worth, I still don’t think Cocu deserves the sack just yet. However, you can see why us throwing away a lead for the third game on the spin, arguably because of the managers negative tactics, would lead to many losing faith that Cocu is the right man for the job, in spite of the decent result.

[AndyinLiverpool]

2 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

It’s almost like you have to take into account more than just the result... which is something the happy clappers were at pains to point out earlier in the season. Ironic.

For what it’s worth, I still don’t think Cocu deserves the sack just yet. However, you can see why us throwing away a lead for the third game on the spin, arguably because of the managers negative tactics, would lead to many losing faith that Cocu is the right man for the job, in spite of the decent result.

I can see that some have lost faith but some never had it in the first place.

Teams equalising is not necessarily 'throwing away' a lead. The Forest game was 'robbery' etc on the night I seem to remember. In the cold light of day I suppose people decided that Cocu was to blame rather than the referee. Which way do you want it?

[nottingram]

14 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

It’s almost like you have to take into account more than just the result... which is something the happy clappers were at pains to point out earlier in the season. Ironic.

For what it’s worth, I still don’t think Cocu deserves the sack just yet. However, you can see why us throwing away a lead for the third game on the spin, arguably because of the managers negative tactics, would lead to many losing faith that Cocu is the right man for the job, in spite of the decent result.

Yeah, you do have to take into account the performance, except when we play well but don’t get a result. Then it’s the result that matters I think. All very confusing.

6 points from an incredibly difficult October. Some will see positive signs from that, some will choose not to. But I’m really not sure how this thread is getting even more impetus from the usual suspects on the back of a very good result and some aspects of a very good performance. Maybe we went negative today (I didn’t watch) but we did not go negative against Cardiff and Forest. They pegged us back and got equalisers after we had pegged them back and scored first. Sometimes that’s just how it works. 

C’est la vie.

[Jourdan]

The thing is winning games pretty much ends the debate.

When we are on a run like we are currently, threads like this won’t go away quietly.

On the one hand, you could frame it as three games unbeaten and small steps in the right direction.

If we win the next two and in some style, it will certainly feel that way. 

On the other hand, we also haven’t won in five games and we are currently in the bottom three.

Cocu will be there to be shot at while we are marooned in the bottom six and rubbing shoulders with Wycombe, Rotherham and Coventry.

[JustOneBiblicalKazim]

It’s not as if we played against particularly fantastic forest and Cardiff sides is it?

[Millenniumram]

16 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

I can see that some have lost faith but some never had it in the first place.

Teams equalising is not necessarily 'throwing away' a lead. The Forest game was 'robbery' etc on the night I seem to remember. In the cold light of day I suppose people decided that Cocu was to blame rather than the referee. Which way do you want it?

It was a robbery, but it was a robbery that could’ve been avoided had we not sat back second half. I still blame the referee for that match, but when the same happens in the next two games, you begin to start questioning the manager as well.

[nottingram]

1 minute ago, JustOneChrissyMartin said:

It’s not as if we played against particularly fantastic forest and Cardiff sides is it?

Well according to some on here Forest managed to hire the best manager this league has ever seen and then signed the best player this league has ever seen just before they played us

Cardiff finished in the play offs last season and were unbeaten away at the time of playing them.

We should’ve beaten both but didn’t put chances away / when we did they were ruled out. Positive performances with I would say neutral results - maybe you’d want 3 or 4 points from those games. Today was maybe partly a negative performance, but anyone who thinks it wasn’t a positive result is frankly an idiot. And yet there’s criticism based on results from those games and performances from this one. Seems some people want it all - doesn’t happen very often or at least very consistently at this level.

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, Barney1991 said:

An honest assessment. If someone gave me 4 billion and said go buy Derby. Hate me for saying it but I would get rid and for me I would go and get jokanovic and I would put him in charge but this is only what I would do and people may disagree which you can. I like his style of football he got Fulham up and Watford 

£4 billion for Derby. Has Mel had the stadium revalued again?

[Millenniumram]

17 minutes ago, nottingram said:

Yeah, you do have to take into account the performance, except when we play well but don’t get a result. Then it’s the result that matters I think. All very confusing.

6 points from an incredibly difficult October. Some will see positive signs from that, some will choose not to. But I’m really not sure how this thread is getting even more impetus from the usual suspects on the back of a very good result and some aspects of a very good performance. Maybe we went negative today (I didn’t watch) but we did not go negative against Cardiff and Forest. They pegged us back and got equalisers after we had pegged them back and scored first. Sometimes that’s just how it works. 

C’est la vie.

The performance matters in both cases imo. There were a fair few positives to take from the Watford loss, for example. A performance better than what we showed over 90 minutes today, but led to a worse result.

FWIW the last few results haven’t been that bad considering the difficulty of opponents on paper. But it’s the way we approach games that’s concerning people. It’s always try and get the 1-0 lead and sit on it. It doesn’t work. The performance was only good today for 20 minutes. It was very good, but we didn’t maintain it. The following 70 minutes were genuinely awful. Some of the worst football we’ve played all season. It was Tony Pulis level smash it and hope, utterly dreadful. We had a 59% pass success rate - that means when we get possession, there’s almost an equal likelihood that we’ll give it straight back as there is that we will complete just one pass! That’s absolutely shocking stuff.

[nottingram]

Just now, Millenniumram said:

The performance matters in both cases imo. There were a fair few positives to take from the Watford loss, for example. A performance better than what we showed over 90 minutes today, but led to a worse result.

FWIW the last few results haven’t been that bad considering the difficulty of opponents on paper. But it’s the way we approach games that’s concerning people. It’s always try and get the 1-0 lead and sit on it. It doesn’t work. The performance was only good today for 20 minutes. It was very good, but we didn’t maintain it. The following 70 minutes were genuinely awful. Some of the worst football we’ve played all season. It was Tony Pulis level smash it and hope, utterly dreadful. We had a 59% pass success rate - that means when we get possession, there’s almost an equal likelihood that we’ll give it straight back as there is that we will complete just one pass! That’s absolutely shocking stuff.

Like I said, I didn’t watch today so can’t make any comment on that, beyond saying it’s a positive result.

But I really didn’t see what you are describing against Forest or Cardiff. Forest changed shape in the second half which caused problems for 20 minutes before we counteracted it and controlled the game for the rest of it, scoring what should’ve been an excellent winner. Cardiff we were decent, lots of openings created but not very clinical and they scored a good equaliser - we should’ve been more than 1-0 up and should’ve gone back ahead at 1-1 (just like today from the highlights I’ve seen - that goal line clearance ffs!!).

A team equalising against us doesn’t mean we’ve been negative. Teams peg us back because they also have 11 very competent Championship footballers (in today’s case a good number of competent Premier League footballers and more where they came from off the bench) who are also trying to win games. 

[Dean Saunder’s hat trick]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Why? There has to be some hope - you're saying that longevity equates to hope? Nope can't see why we should stick with any manager if the football isn't offering hope, not the time in job, but the football played!

Nope. I’m just asking can we not change manager every 12 months when we don’t like the way the football is going before said manager has had a chance to actually embed his footballing philosophy and mould his team. It’s just so reactionary and so very, very shortsighted. 

[Dean Saunder’s hat trick]

33 minutes ago, nottingram said:

Like I said, I didn’t watch today so can’t make any comment on that, beyond saying it’s a positive result.

But I really didn’t see what you are describing against Forest or Cardiff. Forest changed shape in the second half which caused problems for 20 minutes before we counteracted it and controlled the game for the rest of it, scoring what should’ve been an excellent winner. Cardiff we were decent, lots of openings created but not very clinical and they scored a good equaliser - we should’ve been more than 1-0 up and should’ve gone back ahead at 1-1 (just like today from the highlights I’ve seen - that goal line clearance ffs!!).

A team equalising against us doesn’t mean we’ve been negative. Teams peg us back because they also have 11 very competent Championship footballers (in today’s case a good number of competent Premier League footballers and more where they came from off the bench) who are also trying to win games. 

You’re clearly missing the point here, unless we win we sack the manager ok ? 

[Dean Saunder’s hat trick]

1 hour ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

18 months at most in the current era, days of managers staying for 4 or 5 years on the whole are long gone. 

Where’s the thumbs down ? button?

[Ruud Aralliss]

2 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

Love the way bielik is being built up to be something he’s not 

pre injury he was a total mixed bag the way some on here talk about him he’s going to turn us into champions elect 

who’s place is he taking ? Motm shinnie ? Knights ?highly doubt he’s walking straight in there 

well I say that ... it’s cocus call so who knows 

Nobody is building BIelik up to be something he is not.

He is a player worthy of international duty, Arsenal friends of mine were gutted he was sold not loaned out. He can play CB or CDM so a system can be changed with him still on the pitch.

He was one of. Three players mentioned (I think) in my post that are out through fiitness/injury problems that, I think could possibly improve the  team.

At no point did I suggest he could Just walk straight in and replace Shinnie or knight. We are however a stronger squad with him fit ( as well as the other two players mentioned in my post l??!) 

We’ve not seen the best of this fella yet, he’s not really had a chance to impress, so I’m not really sure what your issue is tbh?

[Jourdan]

5 minutes ago, Dean Saunder’s hat trick said:

You’re clearly missing the point here, unless we win we sack the manager ok ? 

You’re also missing the point.

Drawing games is fine. A draw can absolutely be a good result. In total isolation, today was probably a point gained all things considered.

But when a draw is the best result you are getting, that is when it becomes an issue.

Winning is the currency in this division. We are not going to climb the table by drawing games.

We have drawn three games. Turn those games we have drawn into wins and we’d be three points off the play-off places and this thread would be reduced to a tumbleweed GIF despite having also lost five games.

When you don’t win enough, you end up leaving yourselves with a lot of work to do and it creates pressure you can do without.

We are less than 10 games into the season and there are already gaps to bridge. Four points to 19th. Seven points to 12th and 13th. A draw won’t make a dent.

Because we have had such a poor start, we go into games like QPR and Barnsley with very little margin for error and under huge pressure to claw back points.

Games shouldn’t be must win in November. But it’s the position we have worked ourselves into.

People are concerned because to be brutally honest, draws aren’t really helpful at this point.

 

 

[wixman1884]

SACK HIM I'M SO BORED

[Dean Saunder’s hat trick]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

You’re also missing the point.

Drawing games is fine. A draw can absolutely be a good result. In total isolation, today was probably a point gained all things considered.

But when a draw is the best result you are getting, that is when it becomes an issue.

Winning is the currency in this division. We are not going to climb the table by drawing games.

We have drawn three games. Turn those games we have drawn into wins and we’d be three points off the play-off places and this thread would be reduced to a tumbleweed GIF despite having also lost five games.

When you don’t win enough, you end up leaving yourselves with a lot of work to do and it creates pressure you can do without.

We are less than 10 games into the season and there are already gaps to bridge. Four points to 19th. Seven points to 12th and 13th. A draw won’t make a dent.

Because we have had such a poor start, we go into games like QPR and Barnsley with very little margin for error and under huge pressure to claw back points.

Games shouldn’t be must win in November. But it’s the position we have worked ourselves into.

People are concerned because to be brutally honest, draws aren’t really helpful at this point.

 

 

And I think you may be missing the sarcasm in my post. Too many seem to ignore the fact we started the season so poorly as we were missing so many key players which has put us in this situation. 
 

Given that, it was always, always going to be very hard to get off to a good start. Players are returning and those early season losses are becoming draws and nearly wins. 
With a few more games and Jozwiak, Bielik and Ibe available the outlook becomes very different. My point is that in my opinion, in the scheme of the season to date, we are clearly on a slow but steady upwards curve.

Yes we need wins, I’m not denying that. And I’m not saying I’m not very disappointed that we’ve let a win slip today. I’m just trying to put a little perspective on the situation. We’ve still 37 games to play. We’ve some of our best players returning from injury. 
The performances are much improved and we’re looking much more solid and quite frankly we are pretty unlucky to only have 3 points from the last 3.

The wins will come and we will climb the table under Cocu.
 

However, this is absolutely not the time to be changing manager yet it’s all some on here seem to yearn for. In that changing the manager will suddenly see us winning every week. We already have the manager and the squad to be able to do that. It just needs a little time to build that momentum.