Sack cocu

[RoyMac5]

Just now, DCFC_Sloth said:

He was forced into this move.

No he chose to. He has to make the best of the squad he has, not make them fit a system. 

 

1 minute ago, DCFC_Sloth said:

Bournemouth have just been relegated from the league above after spending heavily whilst up there.

Relegated is the operative word - they weren't good enough. How good are their players then? We know that it isn't anything (necessarily) to do with how much you pay for them!

 

2 minutes ago, DCFC_Sloth said:

I'm not sure what more he could have done in the last run of fixtures.

Some might suggest his choice of subs leaves something to discuss.

[BramcoteRam84]

Conway pretty much nailed it yesterday, we should on balance of play have had at least 7 points from the 3 games.

Against Forest we were robbed and very unlucky. Against Cardiff, they were there for the taking and we surrendered the initiative - Cocu has to take some blame due to the subs. Yesterday, again maybe some blame due to the subs but we were pegged back by a really good side who brought about £40m worth of talent off the bench in the second half to get a point. Again fine margins, but for a piece of both outstanding defending and luck (both Steve Cook’s face) we’d have won despite the second half.

Biggest thing is we’re not getting the second goal when on top. We’re trying to get it, we are attacking and creating chances but just not getting it, the longer you don’t score the second goal, the more a team will drop back and that’s what’s happening right now.

We’re not far away, we’ve played 4 of the top 6 sides including 3 relegated clubs, we’ve taken 4 points in 2 away games against relegated teams and were unlucky not to get anything against Watford. That’s improvement on last season where we couldn’t buy a win against the top teams.

However, got to win games soon or this season becomes a relegation scrap. People say easier fixtures coming up? After these next 2 we’ve got Bristol and Boro away, then 2 winnable games followed by another tough run of games. Got to start getting points.

Cocu needs to get 4 points this week minimum to keep his job IMO, ideally he needs 6 to take the pressure off.

[DCFC_Sloth]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

No he chose to. He has to make the best of the squad he has, not make them fit a system. 

 

Relegated is the operative word - they weren't good enough. How good are their players then? We know that it isn't anything (necessarily) to do with how much you pay for them!

 

Some might suggest his choice of subs leaves something to discuss.

These are all fair points, but  they are not straightforward as you make them out to. He adjusted his system to make the best out of what we had. Has he not done exactly what you are claiming he hasn't? He tried to go with the system the players knew well and had been playing for over a year, and then due to it not working, changed to a back three. Something he and his staff began working on through preseason suggesting he had identified an issue and was actively trying to solve it.

I would say that despite them being relegated there is a lot of quality in that team. They may have not been good enough in that league, but they shave still come from a place which is above us. We all know there is a significant gap, due to the money, between the championship and the premier league. 

What subs would you have wanted to see yesterday? I felt that something needed to change in terms of energy, but we don't have the like for like players available right now. if Jozwiak and Ibe were fit you could have changed the wide players but kept the shape the same, but they weren't. If we sacrificed a winger for a winger for CKR we potentially left our fullbacks exposed 2 v 1, and when that happened vs forest, they got back into the game. Swap Sibley in the midfield? He does not have the industry of Knight or Shinnie and is liable to leave spaces as he goes forward. Take off a centre back for a midfielder/forward? That would require a lot of shifting of personnel, and positioning. Cocu is paid to make these decisions, and I think a point at Bournemouth is a good result all told.

[RoyMac5]

18 minutes ago, DCFC_Sloth said:

Cocu is paid to make these decisions, and I think a point at Bournemouth is a good result all told.

I think the Bournemouth result is okay, a point away from home. But all told, and although I do agree with some of your points, I cannot be convinced with the way Cocu is going. I think the results might soon change, although once in a relegation scrap players mentality really comes into it, but whether there would ever be the consistency required I don't think so. I base my thoughts on Cocu over all of his managerial reign here and include considerations like what has happened 'off field' and recruitment. 

[Jimbo Ram]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I think the Bournemouth result is okay, a point away from home. But all told, and although I do agree with some of your points, I cannot be convinced with the way Cocu is going. I think the results might soon change, although once in a relegation scrap players mentality really comes into it, but whether there would ever be the consistency required I don't think so. I base my thoughts on Cocu over all of his managerial reign here and include considerations like what has happened 'off field' and recruitment. 

Are we in a relegation scrap...after 9 games....really ?

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Are we in a relegation scrap...after 9 games....really ?

We need points. The longer we stay in the bottom 3 the harder it will be to get out. Call it what you will. ?

[derbydaz22]

5 hours ago, DRBee said:

So replacement? There is no let out for Cocu on this  - there were choices and priorities and he failed. Lets be clear Cocu started this season with his flawed , play out from the back philosophy and he's been forced into a change in this  Cocu's preferred style of play determined the transfer priorities. Even though we played best with Martin in the side last season he DIDN'T REPLACE!

We tried to sign the German target man and that fell through and we probably had other irons in the fire to but finances are obviously tight. Would you sooner go back to giving 31 year olds huge contracts? I like Martin and I’m pretty sure we would have more points on the board if he was in the team but we need to move on and on this one it’s not Cocu’s fault.

[BondJovi]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

We need points. The longer we stay in the bottom 3 the harder it will be to get out. Call it what you will. ?

We do but there is a long road ahead. Are Forest in a relegation scrap?

What about the incredibly well respected Sheff Utd, Burnley? Do their fans talk of relegation yet?

Take away those first 3 games and fans would be seeing steady improvement with players still to come back and the fitness and sharpness of our front players increasing. We need to stop with the extreme reactions and handle our expectations of the opposition better. Only Huddersfield of our recent games are a team that finished below us last season.

[derbydaz22]

Just now, derbydaz22 said:

We tried to sign the German target man and that fell through and we probably had other irons in the fire to but finances are obviously tight. Would you sooner go back to giving 31 year olds huge contracts? I like Martin and I’m pretty sure we would have more points on the board if he was in the team but we need to move on and on this one is not Cocu’s fault.

 

[CornwallRam]

34 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Are we in a relegation scrap...after 9 games....really ?

Yes, we really are. The bookies have us as 4th favourites to go down. Our ppg puts us on 31 points, which would have meant relegation in every season since 3 points for win was introduced. Our form is a continuation of last season's form, so it looks less like a blip than might have otherwise been the case.

It's not yet a forgone conclusion, but if nothing changes we will go down. Anyone who thinks we are too good for relegation is really deluding themselves. 

[Jimbo Ram]

11 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

Yes, we really are. The bookies have us as 4th favourites to go down. Our ppg puts us on 31 points, which would have meant relegation in every season since 3 points for win was introduced. Our form is a continuation of last season's form, so it looks less like a blip than might have otherwise been the case.

It's not yet a forgone conclusion, but if nothing changes we will go down. Anyone who thinks we are too good for relegation is really deluding themselves. 

Predicted a 15th place finish at the start of the season and don’t think I will be far off. We certainly won’t go down ?

[Barney1991]

13 hours ago, Dean Saunder’s hat trick said:

And I think you may be missing the sarcasm in my post. Too many seem to ignore the fact we started the season so poorly as we were missing so many key players which has put us in this situation. 
 

Given that, it was always, always going to be very hard to get off to a good start. Players are returning and those early season losses are becoming draws and nearly wins. 
With a few more games and Jozwiak, Bielik and Ibe available the outlook becomes very different. My point is that in my opinion, in the scheme of the season to date, we are clearly on a slow but steady upwards curve.

Yes we need wins, I’m not denying that. And I’m not saying I’m not very disappointed that we’ve let a win slip today. I’m just trying to put a little perspective on the situation. We’ve still 37 games to play. We’ve some of our best players returning from injury. 
The performances are much improved and we’re looking much more solid and quite frankly we are pretty unlucky to only have 3 points from the last 3.

The wins will come and we will climb the table under Cocu.
 

However, this is absolutely not the time to be changing manager yet it’s all some on here seem to yearn for. In that changing the manager will suddenly see us winning every week. We already have the manager and the squad to be able to do that. It just needs a little time to build that momentum. 

 

You say players coming back and some are back now. Let's see the players coming back and just back. 

Waghorn scored 2 set pieces but in open play not a striker. Yesterday he had 2nor 3 times to put someone in and didn't. He won't get you 15 to 20 goals for me. Against Cardiff he had chances to put jozwiak in and didn't. 

Lawrence  great player but won't be the saviour  he's brilliant but yesterday was poor. He will have 2 great games then 4 or 5 average but granted more consistent the last year. 

Ibe is mentioned but hasn't played for us in 5 years and only played 1 in last year not knowing how he is going to be. 

Bielik played a handful of games. Some games look really good some games league 1 standard yet he's bring pressured to come back and be pirlo but just don't see it although I do think he is a brill player. 

Cant keep giving cocu excuses about players. Every team has injuries if this is the case if we have 1 injury out all season and next season let's just give him a 2 year free pass.

 

[Jimbo Ram]

11 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

You say players coming back and some are back now. Let's see the players coming back and just back. 

Waghorn scored 2 set pieces but in open play not a striker. Yesterday he had 2nor 3 times to put someone in and didn't. He won't get you 15 to 20 goals for me. Against Cardiff he had chances to put jozwiak in and didn't. 

Lawrence  great player but won't be the saviour  he's brilliant but yesterday was poor. He will have 2 great games then 4 or 5 average but granted more consistent the last year. 

Ibe is mentioned but hasn't played for us in 5 years and only played 1 in last year not knowing how he is going to be. 

Bielik played a handful of games. Some games look really good some games league 1 standard yet he's bring pressured to come back and be pirlo but just don't see it although I do think he is a brill player. 

Cant keep giving cocu excuses about players. Every team has injuries if this is the case if we have 1 injury out all season and next season let's just give him a 2 year free pass.

 

It’s a mixture of injuries and signings who are not fit and need games. Once we have these available I think we have the makings of a decent side. Bit of patience and we will get there. Far too soon to start panicking or talk of relegation ?

[DRBee]

1 minute ago, Jimbo Ram said:

It’s a mixture of injuries and signings who are not fit and need games. Once we have these available I think we have the makings of a decent side. Bit of patience and we will get there. Far too soon to start panicking or talk of relegation ?

But Cocu's dead hand of caution will remain .....

[Jimbo Ram]

2 minutes ago, DRBee said:

But Cocu's dead hand of caution will remain .....

Let’s wait and see ?

[GB SPORTS]

2 hours ago, nottingram said:

Martin played 37 times last season and was a key part of our good run post January. CKR has made 3 appearances out of 4 so far.

Only conclusion that isn’t hard to draw is that you’re talking out of your backside

i am big Wardrobe fan, but i think we tend to look at his "renaissance" last season with Red coloured specs.

Started 25 league games and we won only 9, didn't start 21 and we won 8. So 36% started 38% not.

[Dean Saunder’s hat trick]

11 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

It’s a mixture of injuries and signings who are not fit and need games. Once we have these available I think we have the makings of a decent side. Bit of patience and we will get there. Far too soon to start panicking or talk of relegation ?

Exactly my point. ?

[nottingram]

43 minutes ago, SIXTEEN AGAIN said:

i am big Wardrobe fan, but i think we tend to look at his "renaissance" last season with Red coloured specs.

Started 25 league games and we won only 9, didn't start 21 and we won 8. So 36% started 38% not.

Interesting stats - maybe it is because the performance “highs” such as Stoke, Blackburn and Sheffield Wednesday were all games Martin started. 

I actually think Cocu used him and Waghorn really wisely last season which makes it such a shame we couldn’t keep hold.

[Big Trav]

Patience is wearing thin for me personally. I can see what he’s trying to do but the way he manages games is appalling. We play well for the first 20 and attack. That is what I want to see. I don’t want to watch is score then sit back and eventually get camped on our box. I feel like I want to watch 20 mins of the match until we score then turn the game off because we’ll just sit back and not go for 2. Why can’t we play like we did last season where we actually wanted to score. I do want to point out tho we are unbeaten in 3. But them 3 should have been wins. We played Bournemouth Cardiff and forest off the park then then ruined it by adding unnecessary pressure by camping in our box 

[Premier ram]

Cocu is in a no win situation with some fans on here , if he had gambled yesterday and brought attackers on as subs and then conceded he would have been hammered for being gung ho , he tried to see the game out at 1-0 by trying to be compact , conceded the equaliser and hes villified for that , a point at Bournemouth is not to be sniffed at .

      Im sure we will see more progress and points on the board this week , performances are slowly improving , injured players are coming back , fitness is improving , Cocu will turn the season round im sure of it