Road to Keogh

[Day]

4 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

Self inflicted that's a ridiculous statement! Yes misguided or ill advised, but under the influence who has not made poor decisions. Also I in no way think he has been lucky to find a new club, rather I think there were probably numerous offers on the table. 

Keogh is not innocent in what happened, but the club in my eyes took a very poor decision in their actions relating to all three players, keeping the two main protagonists and sacking Keogh. Morally I find their stance indefensible.

He was the club captain, he chose not to use the provided transport home staying behind to extend the night with several team mates.

As club captain you have a responsibility both on and off the pitch, his actions and lack of responsibility saw him unable to play for the rest of the year. 

His sacking was deserved and the club got it spot on. 

Considering he has just signed for a club in a league that has a £2.5m wage cap, I highly doubt he had many offers on the table. 

At his age it’s a complete risk, given the injury which can be potentially career ending at this point.

A Keogh that is not involved in that accident and is available on a free this summer would have a number of clubs in this league looking to take him on.

[Tyler Durden]

9 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

Self inflicted that's a ridiculous statement! Yes misguided or ill advised, but under the influence who has not made poor decisions. Also I in no way think he has been lucky to find a new club, rather I think there were probably numerous offers on the table. 

Keogh is not innocent in what happened, but the club in my eyes took a very poor decision in their actions relating to all three players, keeping the two main protagonists and sacking Keogh. Morally I find their stance indefensible.

Regardless of whether you think the club acted in the appropriate manner the basic fact is that the club did not engineer this scenario which was entirely down to the protagonists involved including Keogh, but the club did have to deal with the aftermath. Keogh needs to take 100% responsibility for forcing this decision onto the club by his own actions. 

[Hathersage Ram]

1 minute ago, David said:

He was the club captain, he chose not to use the provided transport home staying behind to extend the night with several team mates.

As club captain you have a responsibility both on and off the pitch, his actions and lack of responsibility saw him unable to play for the rest of the year. 

His sacking was deserved and the club got it spot on. 

Considering he has just signed for a club in a league that has a £2.5m wage cap, I highly doubt he had many offers on the table. 

At his age it’s a complete risk, given the injury which can be potentially career ending at this point.

A Keogh that is not involved in that accident and is available on a free this summer would have a number of clubs in this league looking to take him on.

If you think the sacking was "Spot On" how do you defend the clubs actions in not sacking the other two main protagonists? 

I agree Keogh made errors of judgement, If you read my post I was stating self inflicted was ridiculous!

[Hathersage Ram]

2 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Regardless of whether you think the club acted in the appropriate manner the basic fact is that the club did not engineer this scenario which was entirely down to the protagonists involved including Keogh, but the club did have to deal with the aftermath. Keogh needs to take 100% responsibility for forcing this decision onto the club by his own actions. 

I agree, what i stated was that morally I find the clubs actions in distinguishing between the players punishments indefinsible and just wrong!

 

[Leicester Ram]

13 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

Self inflicted that's a ridiculous statement! Yes misguided or ill advised, but under the influence who has not made poor decisions. Also I in no way think he has been lucky to find a new club, rather I think there were probably numerous offers on the table. 

Keogh is not innocent in what happened, but the club in my eyes took a very poor decision in their actions relating to all three players, keeping the two main protagonists and sacking Keogh. Morally I find their stance indefensible.

Did Tom Lawrence kidnap Richard Keogh? Did Keogh not know Lawrence had been drinking

No one forced him to get into the car, he got in of his own accord and didn’t put on his ducking seatbelt. The bloke famously doesn’t drive, is paid thousands a week and definitely has Chad Cars number on his phone.

It was self inflicted.

Nothing morally indefensible about it, the club very generously offered to keep Keogh on despite putting himself out for over a year. He refused that, he got himself sacked.

 

[DCFC1976]

11 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

Self inflicted that's a ridiculous statement! Yes misguided or ill advised, but under the influence who has not made poor decisions. Also I in no way think he has been lucky to find a new club, rather I think there were probably numerous offers on the table. 

Keogh is not innocent in what happened, but the club in my eyes took a very poor decision in their actions relating to all three players, keeping the two main protagonists and sacking Keogh. Morally I find their stance indefensible.

Disagree, as 1st team captain he got drunk, refused the transport laid in by the club, didn’t discourage younger team members from staying on considering it was during the season all of which is unprofessional. The injuries he sustained were self inflicted and stopped him from doing the job he is paid for. The club offered reduced terms and full medical and rehabilitation at the clubs facilities and he would probably be in or around the first team by now. At no point has he apologised (not that I have seen?) or accepted any responsibility.

Lawrence and Bennett were fortunate that they didn’t suffer injuries that stopped them playing otherwise they would probably be in the same position?

[Tyler Durden]

3 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

I agree, what i stated was that morally I find the clubs actions in distinguishing between the players punishments indefinsible and just wrong!

 

Well we can argue about the merits and demerits of whether the sanctions were appropriate or not, there are other posters doing that at the moment.

Bottom line is that Keogh should never have given the club that issue to deal with through his own stupidity. 

[Day]

Just now, Hathersage Ram said:

If you think the sacking was "Spot On" how do you defend the clubs actions in not sacking the other two main protagonists? 

I agree Keogh made errors of judgement, If you read my post I was stating self inflicted was ridiculous!

Lawrence and Bennett were able to still play. That’s the difference.

A quick Google will show a long list of footballers convicted for drink driving, some also whilst speeding and not sacked by their clubs.

Unlike you or I, footballers are assets worth millions, you can’t just write them off, especially with FFP to adhere to. 

Keogh’s actions, which were completely self inflicted, from staying behind, getting in the car, not putting on his seat belt meant he was unable to play. Why on earth should the club continue to pay him whilst not knowing if the injury he sustained could be career ending?

Let’s not forget the club offered him a new deal on vastly reduced terms which he turned down....well now look at him, at a club with a £2.5m salary cap. 

If he’s fully recovered and ready to play at the same level, he could be issuing his apologies on RamsTV now ahead of the new season with us. 

I would argue Keogh is an incredibly poor decision maker.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 minute ago, Hathersage Ram said:

I agree, what i stated was that morally I find the clubs actions in distinguishing between the players punishments indefinsible and just wrong!

 

Personally I would have made the other two players available for transfer- we sort of did with Bennett but suspect we may have to put him in the school tombola to shift him.

 Keogh made himself unavailable to play through his behaviour.The others didn't, though this would have been different should a custodial sentence have arisen. As such he was asked to take a pay cut during the period of recovery, mostly likely to facilitate a replacement. The wage needed to come from somewhere. He was also offered continued use of full medical care available through the club. He got on his high horse and decided he was a bit too special to be dealt with like any employee in the world of reality.   Now he plays for MK Dons instead of being involved in pre season here. 

[Hathersage Ram]

5 minutes ago, David said:

Lawrence and Bennett were able to still play. That’s the difference.

A quick Google will show a long list of footballers convicted for drink driving, some also whilst speeding and not sacked by their clubs.

Unlike you or I, footballers are assets worth millions, you can’t just write them off, especially with FFP to adhere to. 

Keogh’s actions, which were completely self inflicted, from staying behind, getting in the car, not putting on his seat belt meant he was unable to play. Why on earth should the club continue to pay him whilst not knowing if the injury he sustained could be career ending?

Let’s not forget the club offered him a new deal on vastly reduced terms which he turned down....well now look at him, at a club with a £2.5m salary cap. 

If he’s fully recovered and ready to play at the same level, he could be issuing his apologies on RamsTV now ahead of the new season with us. 

I would argue Keogh is an incredibly poor decision maker.

Lawrence and Bennett had a transfer and FFP value that's the difference - the club I think made their decision not on merit. Surely even you can see morally its unjust!

I think you need to understand the phrase self-inflicted, as his actions although stupid/foolish/ill advised whatever you wish to call them, self inflicted they are not.

What you are forgetting in terms of his financial remuneration, is we don't know if he was given severance pay after the actions he took against his employer or indeed if he gained a signing on bonus at MK dons etc. 

Do you think he should work for the club who sacked him and didn't the two who were more guilty than he was and nearly go to prison. 

Finally don't you think a player who has been the mainstay of the club for so long and given his all for his club be given some amount of loyalty by the club. I don't know Mel Morris but i do find the actions of his club with regard to this situation morally unjust. I also think in the legal actions that followed Keogh would have had strong evidence to suggest the clubs actions were unjust and he probably walked away with a significant settlement.

I DON'T THINK KEOGH IS INNOCENT IN ALL THIS - BUT I FOR ONE AM NOT HAPPY WITH HOW THE CLUB HANDLED IT!

[TigerTedd]

14 minutes ago, David said:

Lawrence and Bennett were able to still play. That’s the difference.

A quick Google will show a long list of footballers convicted for drink driving, some also whilst speeding and not sacked by their clubs.

Unlike you or I, footballers are assets worth millions, you can’t just write them off, especially with FFP to adhere to. 

Keogh’s actions, which were completely self inflicted, from staying behind, getting in the car, not putting on his seat belt meant he was unable to play. Why on earth should the club continue to pay him whilst not knowing if the injury he sustained could be career ending?

Let’s not forget the club offered him a new deal on vastly reduced terms which he turned down....well now look at him, at a club with a £2.5m salary cap. 

If he’s fully recovered and ready to play at the same level, he could be issuing his apologies on RamsTV now ahead of the new season with us. 

I would argue Keogh is an incredibly poor decision maker.

If he’d have been injured on the job, in training or in a match, il positive the club would have backed him to the hilt. We’ve seen that with the likes of barker and Thorne. 

they do the same in the army, and take care of your for life if it’s a career ender (or your family if it’s even worse). 

but if you injure yourself in your own time, while you’re off the payroll, you’re not insured, you’re on your own. 

crazy decision in hindsight by Keogh. He would have taken a significant pay cut, but even a pay cut would probably be more than what he’s on now at mk done. Not to mention the months where he’s had no wages. 

[Day]

6 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

Lawrence and Bennett had a transfer and FFP value that's the difference - the club I think made their decision not on merit. Surely even you can see morally its unjust!

I think you need to understand the phrase self-inflicted, as his actions although stupid/foolish/ill advised whatever you wish to call them, self inflicted they are not.

What you are forgetting in terms of his financial remuneration, is we don't know if he was given severance pay after the actions he took against his employer or indeed if he gained a signing on bonus at MK dons etc. 

Do you think he should work for the club who sacked him and didn't the two who were more guilty than he was and nearly go to prison. 

Finally don't you think a player who has been the mainstay of the club for so long and given his all for his club be given some amount of loyalty by the club. I don't know Mel Morris but i do find the actions of his club with regard to this situation morally unjust. I also think in the legal actions that followed Keogh would have had strong evidence to suggest the clubs actions were unjust and he probably walked away with a significant settlement.

I DON'T THINK KEOGH IS INNOCENT IN ALL THIS - BUT I FOR ONE AM NOT HAPPY WITH HOW THE CLUB HANDLED IT!

Of course that is the difference, but also they had not sustained career threatening injury that prevented them from playing, think you keep missing this key part.

Had Keogh not been injured, chances are he would still be a Derby player today, to say it's morally unjust and question the loyalty is ludicrous when he was offered a deal where he would also have been given expensive treatment and rehabilitation, he chose not to sign it, his decision, yet another poor one.

I can see you are not happy with how the club handled it without having to caps lock it, I like it would appear others disagree with you on this as well as them being self inflicted. 

[hintonsboots]

Caps locking it.........luv it.

[RoyMac5]

I'm still waiting for the apology.

[Day]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

I'm still waiting for the apology.

Has he got your number?

[RoyMac5]

Just now, David said:

Has he got your number?

No, but he's got Mels!

[Day]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

No, but he's got Mels!

Probably has apologised behind closed doors, he may have been advised to stay quiet by his legal team or just hasn't felt the need to say anything to the fans which is up to him. Wouldn't want him to be forced into any kind of apology.

Not sure what he can say really that will change anyones mind on him or the incident, he might address it in his signing interview with MK Dons I guess, they might want to get something on record to draw a line under it.

 

[rsmini]

Good luck to him. I wonder if CM9 will follow him to MK Dons

 

 

[RoyMac5]

17 minutes ago, David said:

Probably has apologised behind closed doors, he may have been advised to stay quiet by his legal team or just hasn't felt the need to say anything to the fans which is up to him.

Yeah, maybe he has to the players and Mel. Maybe. I was never his greatest fan but he's undoubtedly been a very good player for the club. I'm glad he's gone though, his behaviour as a captain wasn't what I would have liked for our young players to be influenced by going forward. You wouldn't think Cocu would have been impressed.

[Day]

4 minutes ago, rsmini said:

Good luck to him. I wonder if CM9 will follow him to MK Dons

If he couldn't agree a deal at Derby, he's unlikely to at a club who are now under a £2.5m wage bill cap. 

Does make you wonder if that cap will make it harder for Martin to find a club now with L1 clubs maybe feeling forced to shift their higher earners on. Could be a number of younger players suddenly available.