Road to Keogh

[Xlor]

On 03/08/2020 at 22:00, Mick Brolly said:

Rubbish. 

Yep. He was.

[ThePrisoner]

14 hours ago, FindernRam said:

He was a passenger. Someone else was the driver so to that extent he was an innocent bystander. He is only temporarily unable to fulfill his contract so was signed off sick. My old contract gave me 2 years before medical severance kicked in, I assume as a sportsman he would have some sort of clause.

The point is in many ways he was much less guilty than the driver, but was punished (in employment terms) much more. So back to my original comment about consistency.

He'd have been fine if he had worn his seatbelt. So no, he's not an innocent bystander but we've treaded this a billion times now.

[G STAR RAM]

14 hours ago, enachops said:

You forgot to mention Martin Albrechtsen. 

And Clod

[IlsonDerby]

14 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

you said he was "unquestionably" the best ball playing centre half since Stimac....so i threw out 16 who were all better than him... but hey...its unquestionable.... 

no, no you didn’t. 
 

you just named 16 defenders that had been ‘fairly successful’ during their time here. 
 

[Anon]

15 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

Unquestionably our best ball playing centre half since Stimac.....? Seriously..??  you mean aside from Carbanari, Mawene, Riggot, Higginbotham, TARIBO WEST, Michael Johnson, Miles Addison, Lewin Nyatanga, Dean Leacock, Alan Stubbs, Jake Buxton, Alex Pearce, Craig Forsyth, Ryan Shotton, Michael Keane or Shaun Barker..... yeah, unquestionably.......

What on earth were you thinking when you wrote this? There is a strong case to be made that Keogh is overrated by Derby fans. If you were able to present that argument with any degree of moderation you might find more people would agree with you. Chucking out names like Addison, Nyatanga, and Leacock (all of whom were in non league or retired by the time they were 30) makes you look utterly ridiculous.

[Dimmu]

1 hour ago, Anon said:

What on earth were you thinking when you wrote this? There is a strong case to be made that Keogh is overrated by Derby fans. If you were able to present that argument with any degree of moderation you might find more people would agree with you. Chucking out names like Addison, Nyatanga, and Leacock (all of whom were in non league or retired by the time they were 30) makes you look utterly ridiculous.

I think he was hating Liverpool. And Keogh a little bit as well.

[Sparkle]

Mixing good defenders from the premiership and good defenders from the championship is rather an uneven mix in my opinion 

[Dethorn]

I will play this game....

 

1. Shaun Barker - such a shame

2. Chris Riggott - one of own - UEFA Cup Runner Up

3. Taribo West - marked him down a bit because I am sure there is some rose coloured stuff going on - he cannot have been as good as I remember really ? Ended up at Plymouth ??

4. Carbonari - awesome freekicks

5. Jake Buxton - in Jake we trust

6. Michael Johnson - always seemed to put in better performances than I thought he should be able to

7. Youl Mawene

8. Richard Keogh

9. Dean Leacock

10. Big Dave

11. Alex Pearce

 

REST

Craig Forsyth  - Not a Centre Half imho

Michael Keane - (Cannot really remember him at Derby - but would be top 3 easily)

Ryan Shotton - I think he was harshly judged during his time - ended up carving a championship career, similar to Keogh

Lewin Nyatanga - Oh my word the potential - such a shame he never fulfilled it but I would say better ball player than Keogh

Miles Addison - I thought he could have been great - even being frozen out by Billy Davies did nothing but convince me I was right, I was wrong though, shame again unfulfilled potential imho

Alan Stubbs - Was great before he got to us but hardly a stalwart in my memory

[Hathersage Ram]

On 25/07/2020 at 21:38, Millenniumram said:

Probably still turns quicker than Chris Martin ?

So does the QE2

[cannable]

I liked Michael Keane, I thought he probably was better than Keogh but;

• Keogh kept him out of the side until injury (as did Jake)

• He was torn to shreds in two of his five starts 

[cheron85]

35 minutes ago, cannable said:

I liked Michael Keane, I thought he probably was better than Keogh but;

• Keogh kept him out of the side until injury (as did Jake)

• He was torn to shreds in two of his five starts 

For me a great example of how a loan doesn't always work out - I think he was pap for us but since has gone on to become a great player 

[nottingram]

5 hours ago, cheron85 said:

For me a great example of how a loan doesn't always work out - I think he was pap for us but since has gone on to become a great player 

Strange isn’t it. That couple of years we had Keane, Bamford, Thorne, Lingard, Butland, Ince and Ibe on loans. 

I think if you were to Rank their subsequent careers based on what I’d have expected after their stint at Derby, it would almost exactly inverse to what has transpired.

[cheron85]

14 hours ago, nottingram said:

Strange isn’t it. That couple of years we had Keane, Bamford, Thorne, Lingard, Butland, Ince and Ibe on loans. 

I think if you were to Rank their subsequent careers based on what I’d have expected after their stint at Derby, it would almost exactly inverse to what has transpired.

I'd say they're a mixed bag tbh

Keane obviously went on to be much better than for us - Bamford I'd say has been about the same middling quality level, useful but not outstanding - Thorne ? - Lingard is the shocker for me but then I think his career is already starting to tail off and I expect to see him at West Brom in a couple of years - Butland I thought was good for us and went on to showcase that at Stoke, his career now has been killed by being too valuable to sell and too expensive to buy - Ince was good and it's a crying shame a player of his talent has been allowed to fade - Ibe was good for us, good for Liverpool and then (it seems) started to believe in his innate natural talent too much

Stoke have a LOT to answer for if you ask me - They've assembled a very expensive squad of players who (it seems) don't really want to play for them and keep bringing in managers who don't know how to use them - Yet they won't get rid of them because no-one is prepared to pay what they're asking and they seem financially sound because of the parachute payments - Think there are a good few players with a giant hole in their career now (Butland being one) because of parachute payments essentially meaning Stoke haven't needed to sell

[Stockport Ram]

1 hour ago, cheron85 said:

Stoke have a LOT to answer for if you ask me 

I've never been keen on the team or the place, but they will now always radiate affection from a tiny corner of my heart, much as Swansea and Yeovil do. 

All together now: "Pratleeeeey,  from the half way line..."

[Ambitious]

I can't bring myself to get into another Keogh debacle. 

What I would say is that he was always in the running for POTY during his time here. He won a couple of them and perhaps should've won another last year. I felt last season was perhaps his best season in a Derby shirt, consistent throughout the season, bringing on the likes of Tomori and Bogle. They both finished extremely well - Tomori winning the award in the end - but I thought Keogh should've had it quite comfortably. 

Some people didn't rate him. I don't know why, I've had plenty of arguments with people in the stands over the time, it became obvious to me that despite playing excellently 44 games out of 46 that everything was heightened with him - the standards, the persecution, the expectancy. It made little sense to me. At the end of the day, we had far more expensive footballers on our team pulling much less weight and getting far less scrutiny. We never had a bad season with him in our team. He's captained a fairly successful (albeit ultimately unsuccessful side) and always remained one of our top performers. 

He's for me, taking all things into consideration, the best player the club has had in the past decade based on consistency. The other players all fell off at one time or another, Keogh continued to perform. He deserves that much credit. 

Bogle's performances have considerably dropped off since Keogh was sacked. Keogh covered him, helped him and mentored him all through last season and he had a strong start to the season. He got gradually worse without that safety net behind him. We've consistently changed the RCB position this season and it's had a detrimental knock-on effect on Bogle's progression. 

We should now give the man credit, wish him the best and do our best to replace him. If we get anyone anywhere near as good to be there for the best 7-8 years then we should consider ourselves fortunate. 

 

 

[Rab a dab doo]

I am sadly afraid the 'Road to Keogh' may have turned down a One Way road to no where.

[Van der MoodHoover]

24 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

I can't bring myself to get into another Keogh debacle. 

What I would say is that he was always in the running for POTY during his time here. He won a couple of them and perhaps should've won another last year. I felt last season was perhaps his best season in a Derby shirt, consistent throughout the season, bringing on the likes of Tomori and Bogle. They both finished extremely well - Tomori winning the award in the end - but I thought Keogh should've had it quite comfortably. 

Some people didn't rate him. I don't know why, I've had plenty of arguments with people in the stands over the time, it became obvious to me that despite playing excellently 44 games out of 46 that everything was heightened with him - the standards, the persecution, the expectancy. It made little sense to me. At the end of the day, we had far more expensive footballers on our team pulling much less weight and getting far less scrutiny. We never had a bad season with him in our team. He's captained a fairly successful (albeit ultimately unsuccessful side) and always remained one of our top performers. 

He's for me, taking all things into consideration, the best player the club has had in the past decade based on consistency. The other players all fell off at one time or another, Keogh continued to perform. He deserves that much credit. 

Bogle's performances have considerably dropped off since Keogh was sacked. Keogh covered him, helped him and mentored him all through last season and he had a strong start to the season. He got gradually worse without that safety net behind him. We've consistently changed the RCB position this season and it's had a detrimental knock-on effect on Bogle's progression. 

We should now give the man credit, wish him the best and do our best to replace him. If we get anyone anywhere near as good to be there for the best 7-8 years then we should consider ourselves fortunate. 

 

 

Gave you an applaud, as I think if you look at the dross we've spaffed £m's and £m's on, Keogh has to be up there as one of our best value for money signings over recent years.

[Ambitious]

1 minute ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Gave you an applaud, as I think if you look at the dross we've spaffed £m's and £m's on, Keogh has to be up there as one of our best value for money signings over recent years.

Absolutely - the likes of Bryson and Martin who were also in that conversation got mega pay days after their success. Keogh's salary went up, for sure, but I'm positive he never got what Bryson or Martin got. Martin, I'd imagine would've been on roughly double Keogh going into last season. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 minute ago, Ambitious said:

Absolutely - the likes of Bryson and Martin who were also in that conversation got mega pay days after their success. Keogh's salary went up, for sure, but I'm positive he never got what Bryson or Martin got. Martin, I'd imagine would've been on roughly double Keogh going into last season. 

interestingly I don't recall any rumours concerning other clubs eyeing up Keogh as a possible target - which probably helped dampen his wages down somewhat!

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

3 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

interestingly I don't recall any rumours concerning other clubs eyeing up Keogh as a possible target - which probably helped dampen his wages down somewhat!

i could be incorrect but i'm sure Keogh had a year or so on his contract and Burnley made a 750k offer based on this . The contract he had he would have had a very nice increase at that point I'm sure. Bryson had a very decent contract at the time as well and it become sort of common knowledge when Derby started paying out even larger wages, that a couple of the players already here had clauses where they had to match earnings of the highest paid player.